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| To what degree do they deny the painfully obvious? |
| All of the time they deny the painfully obvious |
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34% |
[ 9 ] |
| Most of the time they deny the painfully obvious |
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42% |
[ 11 ] |
| Sometimes they deny the painfully obvious |
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15% |
[ 4 ] |
| Rarely do they deny the painfully obvious |
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7% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 26 |
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humanuspneumos
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
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 Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: Koreans hiding the truth in America |
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Koreans hiding the truth in America: Article Written by a Korean- so- that's interesting.
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Korean Pride. Korean Power. Especially at a place like Stanford, these phrases tend to be greeted with questioning glances. Even for those more familiar with the gang affiliations which these phrases represent, the images invoked tend to be of a rather harmless nature; baggy clothes, ghetto talk, and lowered Hondas with skyscraper spoilers and oversized mufflers. At its most extreme, Korean gangs are seen by some as being involved in the occasional fight involving fists, knives, or the more infrequently imagined gun. These stereotypes alone seem hard to swallow for a vast number of Koreans, especially when confronted with gang-affiliated children or friends. Unfortunately, they are also stereotypes that, in many respects, prove in many ways to be grossly tame and naive.
Ask Mu Yung Shin,* presently a prostitute at a Korean massage parlor in Dallas. Abducted at the age of 14 from her village home in South Korea by a group of Korean criminals, she was repeatedly raped, then sent to one of the infamous "sex farms" used by the South Korean army, where she was made a sex slave for two years. In the early nineties she was moved to the US legally through a sham marriage with an American GI and has served ever since as a Korean massage parlor prostitute in various locales stretching from Chicago and Houston to New York City.1
Mu Yung Shin is just one of several thousand Korean women abducted, raped, and virtually enslaved by the multimillion-dollar international prostitution network run by the Korean Killers, or KK. Korean Killers, and other major Korean gangs is the US such as Korean Power, based in New York, deal not only in prostitution, but in drug trafficking, extortion, and firebombings, mostly directed against the Korean community.
Take Tae Sook Lee,* a longtime member of the Korean Killers based in Los Angeles' Koreatown. With two accomplices, called his "enforcers," Tae would visit Korean businesses in the area, mostly car dealerships, and demand payments of money ranging from $30,000 to $50,000. If threats and intimidation failed to net him the money, arson would result. According to Ray Futami, a detective with the LAPD, "If they [Korean business owners] didn't pay, Tae would send in his boys, his enforcers, and they would burn cars and dealerships." Tae was finally apprehended in 1989 through information gained in the shooting death of Ha-Seung Lee, a sort of Koreatown "Godfather." In an ironic, and ultimately saddening twist, it was discovered Tae's parents themselves are the owners of several businesses in the Koreatown area.2
In 1993, five members of New York's Korean Power gang were arrested on charges of extortion from at least 100 Korean small businesses, using threats of physical pain or firebombings to keep their victims silent and obedient. These were not the actions of hardened criminals, but of Korean youths ranging in age from 16 to 23.3 Neither were these crimes rare aberrations. From Los Angeles to New York, prostitution and extortion are practiced on a daily basis by Koreans against Koreans.
Asking the question of "why" is in many ways a fruitless exercise; every community has its share of gang problems, and none have managed to fully understand, much less contain such actions. But a much more pressing question is reflected in the ignorance, skepticism, and silence that seem to be the stock response of the Korean community to the actions of Korean gangs. Why do so few Koreans hear or know of the problems, and why do fewer still choose to speak out about them?
The seeming inability of the Korean community to properly face up to its gang problems has had many damaging repercussions. Not only has it left multiple police investigations languishing due to lack of support and cooperation from the victims of these crimes, but it has created a culture of ignorance and denial within the community as a whole. When Korean-language media fails to report such stories, it only bolsters the individual Korean's vehement denials that the problems exist. When parents see children with cigarette burn scars on their arms and "Korean Pride" (another moniker used by multiple localized Korean gangs) caps atop their heads and fail to realize the full extent of the implications, it bespeaks of a breakdown in the idea of community. It has sacrificed the idea of honest, sometimes painful communication for the false salve of unqualified support. These attempts to provide support for the community's individual members, especially its children, have gone too far when, in doing so, they chose to ignore, and by turn exacerbate, gang problems which cannot simply be wished away.
Jump now to Washington D.C., where in a span of 18 months from 1985 to 1986 eleven Korean businesses were mysteriously firebombed. Though the investigation, handled by both local and federal authorities, first focused on tensions between Washington's Black and Korean communities, patterns and circumstances similar to Korean against Korean firebombings in Los Angeles and New York led investigators to suspect the work of a local Korean gang styling itself in the image of the better known KK and Korean Power gangs. Though the police had no firm evidence pointing to any specific Korean gang activity, several signs existed. All the businesses were Korean. The firebombings were all of a more threatening rather than destructive intent, unlike the heavy damage that would be more likely in racially motivated bombings. Except for the Korea Times building, the other businesses had no tell-tale outward signs of being Korean-owned. At the least, such evidence pointed to broadening the investigation to include the possibility of Korean gang activity. What investigators did not quite count on was the utter lack of cooperation given by the Korean community. One Korean business owner whose store was firebombed insisted that Koreans were "absolutely not" responsible for the firebombings and that any theories to the contrary were "without substance." The treasurer of the local Korean Businessman's Association was even more strident in his denial, saying that "there is no possibility, not even one percent" that Korean gangs might have anything to do with the string of firebombings. He insisted that the bombing resulted from "hostility against Koreans...Whenever I join some Black community meeting, I can feel some hostility exists there." 4
The Washington firebombings were not a case of casting guilt upon Korean gangs without firm evidence, as the forceful tone of the Korean response might suggest. The defensive nature of the Washington Korean community's reaction in not allowing even the slightest possibility of Korean gang involvement, indeed insisting that no Korean gangs existed at all in the Washington area, amply illustrates the dysfunctionality with which the Korean community has dealt with these issues. When the community cannot even ponder the idea that the firebombings were Korean in origin, even in the face of multiple similar incidents in Los Angeles and New York, there is more than a lack of communication or knowledge involved.
The Korean community has often been proven guilty of reverting to attitudes of programmed ignorance and instantaneous denial in the face of issues and events which have the power to reflect negatively on Koreans. An extreme form of the community's own extreme and unjustified sense of "Korean Pride," this knee-jerk tendency to react with unrationalized and vociferous denial in the face of issues which could lead to some sense of "communal shame" has unwittingly caused heavy damage to the community as a whole. The desire for Koreans to want to focus only on the academic and social achievements of their children while turning a blind eye to a thriving criminal counterculture has served as a major factor in the growth of Korean gang activity in the recent years. Without acknowledgment, the Korean gang problem can only get worse, and the Korean community will continue to be victim to its own suspension of reality.
* Names have been changed.
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Sources:
Gallagher, Mike. "Prostitution Ring Traps South Koreans." USA Today - International Edition. April 7, 1995 : News, p. 5A.
Crane, Alice. "Reputed Leader of Koreatown Gang Arrested." U.P.I. Sept. 15, 1989 : Regional News.
"Korean Gangsters Held in Extortion." The New York Times. May 9, 1993 : Section 1, p. 26.
Anderson, John Ward. "Extortion Eyed in Firebombings of Korean-Owned Businesses; Police Probe 7 Incidents in 10 months in NW Area." The Washington Post. Oct. 19, 1985 : D1. |
Last edited by humanuspneumos on Sat Jan 24, 2004 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sooke
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Most of the posts are bang on.
A lot of students who have travelled abroad will acknowledge some problems more often than those who haven't.
Actually, I find the students who have the most to say about these things are the educated ajummas. If an ajumma is in a free talking class and has travelled abroad, she is probably the most critical of her country. Also, well educated and politically motivated students are also quite critical.
But you can't push too far. (As others have brought up, nobody likes having their own country bashed, Foreigner and Korean alike.)
I have also found that a lot of free talking teachers tend to talk down to their students and impose their morals on them, in a misguided attempt to "re-neducate" them. "Korea has a problem with prostitution. Too many Korean men go to the hookers. Nope, none of that back home ..." So, if a foreign teacher was constantly moralizing and talking down to me I'm sure I would try and argue my way out of it, whether the teacher was right or wrong.
As a postscript...how many Canadians are having a hard time with all the Mad cow business? ("The americans planted that cow in Canada, blah,blah,blah"). No denying there, eh? |
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humanuspneumos
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:16 pm Post subject: Big Fish----Small Fish---Well Traveled Fish? |
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I see these traditional TV shows on from time to time where they are all in a village and the "Head Master" - if you will- runs the whole village. Everyone just moves about in community and have been taught to keep their noses in their duty/job and not in the affairs of the Big Fish (not risking being noticed enough to be eaten). I wonder if the style of community- some big fish holding the "Conch" translates into "shut-up and put-up or I'll eat you up."
I too had well traveled students and you're right--- they made more noise-they broke out of the community/system enough times that they saw something- kind of like aspects of The Matrix. Perhaps these well traveled fish were Big Fish somewhere on the ladder. So- they felt they could be brave.
Anyway- that article I posted- written by a concerned Korean- gives one the feeling that those communities of Koreans moving into our countries feel like they are small fish in the scope of gangs/gangsters and then in the eyes of "advanced peoples."
As for them speaking to each other openly---- well---- that could be like Thailand where when they feel absolutely safe with a group of people they will talk about the King. In Thailand people lose their lives for talking about the King- it's a huge no-no.
As for foreigners- our countries are seen as Big Fish and they want to be a Big Fish on the global scene and so cover-up so much because our "respect" of them means so much as a kind of measuring tool as to where they are at this point in the game on the global stage..
Perhaps.?.? |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Big Fish----Small Fish---Well Traveled Fish? |
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| humanuspneumos wrote: |
Anyway- that article I posted- written by a concerned Korean- gives one the feeling that those communities of Koreans moving into our countries feel like they are small fish in the scope of gangs/gangsters and then in the eyes of "advanced peoples."
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It's quite amazing. I have no doubt that had thousands of Americans and Canadians emigrated to Korea and set up shop as criminals, going so far as establishing organized gangs, the Korean government would take decisive action.
Yet in the U.S., we laud this as "diversity". |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Dogbert wrote:
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It's quite amazing. I have no doubt that had thousands of Americans and Canadians emigrated to Korea and set up shop as criminals, going so far as establishing organized gangs, the Korean government would take decisive action.
Yet in the U.S., we laud this as "diversity". |
Dogbert:
You are attacking a straw man. I don't think anyone in the U.S. actually hails criminal gangs as an example of ethnic "diversity". And are you telling us that the U.S. government does NOT take action against organized crime? That would've come as news to John Gotti, I am sure. |
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humanuspneumos
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:58 pm Post subject: Actually |
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Actually the main point I think Dogbert is making is that over the years the Asian-based Organized Crime rings have moved into our communities with relative ease and now are even threatening their own people who remain mysteriously silent.
On the other hand if foreigners moved gangs into Korea it would likely only take a nano-second for a national ourburst to take place with only a handful moving in. I don't think he's attacking the US/Canada... |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| humanuspneumos, bang on! |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Yes, thank you for the exposition.  |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Actually the main point I think Dogbert is making is that over the years the Asian-based Organized Crime rings have moved into our communities with relative ease and now are even threatening their own people who remain mysteriously silent.
On the other hand if foreigners moved gangs into Korea it would likely only take a nano-second for a national ourburst to take place with only a handful moving in. I don't think he's attacking the US/Canada... |
Uh-huh. But are people in the USA or Canada "lauding" the Asian gangs as "diversity"? That is, after all, what Dogbert said in his post. And, yes, I took it as an attack on multiculturalism advocates in North America. If this is not what Dogbert meant by using a well-known multiculturalism catch-word in such a fashion, then I invite him to tell me exactly what he did mean. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
Actually the main point I think Dogbert is making is that over the years the Asian-based Organized Crime rings have moved into our communities with relative ease and now are even threatening their own people who remain mysteriously silent.
On the other hand if foreigners moved gangs into Korea it would likely only take a nano-second for a national ourburst to take place with only a handful moving in. I don't think he's attacking the US/Canada... |
Uh-huh. But are people in the USA or Canada "lauding" the Asian gangs as "diversity"? That is, after all, what Dogbert said in his post. And, yes, I took it as an attack on multiculturalism advocates in North America. If this is not what Dogbert meant by using a well-known multiculturalism catch-word in such a fashion, then I invite him to tell me exactly what he did mean. |
You are quite astute.
My point is that while we are bombarded constantly with the message: "diversity is what makes us stronger", the multiculturalism advocates consistently fail to note that it makes us weaker as well. By ignoring the fact that diversity also brings us the "Korean Killers", the "Nortenos", violent Cambodian gangs, and now Somalian gangs, the multiculturalism advocates may as well be lauding them. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Dogbert:
Okay. I DO find it a bit strange then that you thanked humanus for his exposition, since in comparison to what you just wrote I'd say his exposition was a little incomplete.
We can sill wonder how much of this crime is really a result of "diversity", and how much of it just happens to be a case of ethnic groups filling a void that would otherwise be filled by other marginalized types in society. Take the mafia in 1920s USA. You could say that the Italians were forming violent gangs in order to sell liqour. That's part of the story, but what we're missing is the fact that many "old-stock" Americans were interested in drinking liquor, which had been outlawed by prohibition. So, the Italians, being an already marginalized group who knew how to make wine, filled the void caused by prohibition.
But, suppose that there had been no wine-sotted Italians. Would all those WASP boozers just have gone without their daily fix? Probably not, since the whiskey-loving Irish would've stil been on hand to market the goods. Okay, what if they'd never let in immigrants from any country with a boozing culture? Would prohibition have been a roaring success in that case? Possibly, but my suspicion is that, given the already existing market for booze, SOME lower-class, marginalized group with few other means of social advancement(hillbillies, for example) would've stepped forward to keep the speakesies running and gun down anyone who got in their way.
In regards to the current North American situation: let's say, hypothetically, that the immigrant communities all disappeared somehow. Mass deportation, UFO abductions, whatever. Would this be the end of organized crime? I doubt it. All that would probably happen is the biker gangs would just pick up where the immigrants left off. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| OTOH, I think it's a bit disingenuous to take the statement literally, ie that "We call all this gang violence diversity". What we call diversity is having a range of ethnicities allowed to enter the country. The violence, like you said, is not necessarily caused by that, as there will always be some underprivileged group ready to engage in organised crime. What perhaps does come with the immigration is the sheer diversity of gangs, and we can only speculate as to whether that makes things worse. However the part of dogbert's post I personally was agreeing with is that if there were western gangs in organised crime in Korea there would holy hell from a government level on down, and moves would be made to get westerners out of the country. What I'm saying is it would instantly become nationalistic and racially oriented here, whereas in the states it's seen as a gang violence problem more so than a Korean problem. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Dogbert:
Okay. I DO find it a bit strange then that you thanked humanus for his exposition, since in comparison to what you just wrote I'd say his exposition was a little incomplete.
We can sill wonder how much of this crime is really a result of "diversity", and how much of it just happens to be a case of ethnic groups filling a void that would otherwise be filled by other marginalized types in society. Take the mafia in 1920s USA. You could say that the Italians were forming violent gangs in order to sell liqour. That's part of the story, but what we're missing is the fact that many "old-stock" Americans were interested in drinking liquor, which had been outlawed by prohibition. So, the Italians, being an already marginalized group who knew how to make wine, filled the void caused by prohibition.
But, suppose that there had been no wine-sotted Italians. Would all those WASP boozers just have gone without their daily fix? Probably not, since the whiskey-loving Irish would've stil been on hand to market the goods. Okay, what if they'd never let in immigrants from any country with a boozing culture? Would prohibition have been a roaring success in that case? Possibly, but my suspicion is that, given the already existing market for booze, SOME lower-class, marginalized group with few other means of social advancement(hillbillies, for example) would've stepped forward to keep the speakesies running and gun down anyone who got in their way. |
This is a somewhat far-fetched example, I think. I suppose that what you're getting at is that there is a parallel with the drug situation, that somehow "we" have created ultra-violent Jamaican, Haitian, Mexican, etc. gangs by our unholy craving for narcotics. I don't buy this, but it is a common argument, one usually advanced by those on the left.
But that does not explain the existence of the various Southeast Asian gangs, for example, that specialize in home invasions, extortion, and the like. Where is the market for that? Why do we need that mess? Your rationalization for diversity and our supposed need for it break down here.
| On the other hand wrote: |
| In regards to the current North American situation: let's say, hypothetically, that the immigrant communities all disappeared somehow. Mass deportation, UFO abductions, whatever. Would this be the end of organized crime? I doubt it. All that would probably happen is the biker gangs would just pick up where the immigrants left off. |
That is just your speculation, though, isn't it? I speculate that they won't.
Let's look at that another way, taking the example of Somalis. They are very recent immigrants, yet have already set up criminal gangs, in Canada as well as the U.S. Were they somehow supplanting other criminals or were they merely adding to the lawlessness? I believe that they are creating criminality rather than fulfilling some sort of need. Therefore, in the unlikely event that these criminals be deported, I speculate that biker gangs will not step in to keep up the heightened level of criminality. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:31 am Post subject: |
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As for the first page (talking about the State of the Union and lying politicians), I didn't take that as America-bashing...USA is pretty much the only country that each and every one of us knows quite well; it's something we all have in common. If I were to say for example,
"If you think Korea sweeps things under the carpet, check out the Action Democratique (in Quebec), they're not exactly shining examples of morality themselves..."
some 90% of the people on this board would say,
"huh?"
and my point would go nowhere. If news on the US is going to be on the front page of every newspaper in the world every day I think we're all free to voice our opinion on it. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Just a thought: I noticed that in Gastown, Vancouver, most people never talked about the HUGE tent town just one block down...I wonder if Koreans who have lived there ever dis Canadians for their inner-city poverty. Something to keep an eye on. |
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