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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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 Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:44 am Post subject: |
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There's no such thing as bad publicity... This will be remembered as the event that put MMA on a larger map.
A few thoughts...
Akiyama was very ordinary, and even he looked surprised when the judging scores were announced. He didn't impress at all.
GSP is the best pound-for-pound, period. However, he's getting a little more boring to watch as he seems less hungry, more defensive. He's not after a title anymore, he's defending one, and in his words "building a legacy". To do that, I think he needs to move up in weight and beat Silva.
I remember when many were mocking Lesnar, calling him a big oaf. If memory serves, there's a thread from a while back on here about it, when Brock/Mir 1 happened, where people were saying he was a good wrestler, but nothing else. That he would get beat badly by trained MMA fighters. Looks like Brock is the real thing, and he's GREAT for the UFC. He gets the pay-per-views going, just like Tyson did with his craziness.
Bisping - bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha... Some punches are better to watch when a real jerk gets his comeupance. The Henderson late blow was worse to me than anything Brock did, and I really like Henderson. It just showed poor class. |
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freshking
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
| Tundra_Creature wrote: |
Aw man, but Lesnar... what a jerk. I really don't like him. Yeah, he one and all, but man... arrogant, stereotypical, idiot.
Also, did anyone else catch the Andrea Boccelli that Akayama was playing? Now THAT I didn't see coming.  I love Boccelli though... just unexpected to hear at UFC. |
Come on now. There IS a reason for Lesnar's behavior. Mir has been verbally jabbing at him since their last fight--which I don't think is really merited considering the circumstances of the bout. I'll concede that Lesnar could have handled the whole thing a bit better, but I don't think badly of him at all. Did he act disrespectfully towards Couture or any of his other opponents? No. If I was in Brock's position, I for sure would have also said, "Now you can talk all the trash you want." If you dish out disrespect, don't get mad if you get it back on top of a beating.
Now Frank Mir is THE ULTIMATE arrogant piece of $#*%.
Akiyama is one cool dude. I've loved all his fights. |
Did you see the ending of his fight with Heath Herring. He started running around and celebrating with 10 seconds left in the match. Lesnar has no class and very little brains. |
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Frankly Mr Shankly
Joined: 13 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Fedor is a massive girl if he doesn't step up and fight Lesnar now. That is all. |
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cangel
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: Jeonju, S. Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| People seem to be forgetting that Brock beat a hometown boy (Mir was born and raised in Vegas). It is no surprise that the crowd reacted the was they did after seeing their first son handed his azz. True enough, Brock needs to be more humble and gracious but when you are as jacked up as these guys are, it can be hard to control your emotions. I loved it when he said, "heck, I may even get on top of my wife tonight!" Too funny. Anyway, his apology was sufficient for me and like Dana said, Brock is getting better each time he competes. |
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PatrickBateman
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st Street
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Frankly Mr Shankly wrote: |
| Fedor is a massive girl if he doesn't step up and fight Lesnar now. That is all. |
Blame Dana, not Fedor.
Fedor>Brock. |
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Leafs42084
Joined: 31 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
| Tundra_Creature wrote: |
Aw man, but Lesnar... what a jerk. I really don't like him. Yeah, he one and all, but man... arrogant, stereotypical, idiot.
Also, did anyone else catch the Andrea Boccelli that Akayama was playing? Now THAT I didn't see coming. I love Boccelli though... just unexpected to hear at UFC. |
Come on now. There IS a reason for Lesnar's behavior. Mir has been verbally jabbing at him since their last fight--which I don't think is really merited considering the circumstances of the bout. I'll concede that Lesnar could have handled the whole thing a bit better, but I don't think badly of him at all. Did he act disrespectfully towards Couture or any of his other opponents? No. If I was in Brock's position, I for sure would have also said, "Now you can talk all the trash you want." If you dish out disrespect, don't get mad if you get it back on top of a beating.
Now Frank Mir is THE ULTIMATE arrogant piece of $#*%.
Akiyama is one cool dude. I've loved all his fights. |
ummmmm, did you watch Heath Herring VS Brock Lesnar? Do you not remember him doing his little hopping while pointing at Heath and laughing like a retard?
The guy is classless and talentless. He is powerful and very fast for his size. I would like to see him against other heavyweights who cut to 265. I want to see a couple heavyweight kickboxers with a good sprawl...
Lesnar would have nothing to do. Big guys from K1 like Schilt/LeBanner.. although theyre really old now |
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BobbyOrr
Joined: 01 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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I really enjoyed all the fights.
I definitely thought Akiyama won that fight. Other than the leg kicks, Belcher did very little. To be honest, I don't think either of those guys are going to the top of their classes though.
GSP did play it very safe, but I still enjoyed watching it. The guy is just so good. Stands in there for 15 minutes and took maybe 2 or 3 legs kicks, a glancing punch and was on his back for 30 seconds. He's dominating. I wonder if he will step up and fight Anderson, but maybe he's playing reluctant to help at the bargaining table.
That Lesnar business was super embarrassing. I can't believe people are downplaying it so much. I also thought it was a very, very bad idea for Henderson to tell the world he knew Bisping was out cold and still punched him. He should be disciplined for that. You can't have that. That's as bad for the credibility of the sport as Lesnar. |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Leafs42084 wrote: |
The guy is classless and talentless. He is powerful and very fast for his size. I would like to see him against other heavyweights who cut to 265. I want to see a couple heavyweight kickboxers with a good sprawl...
Lesnar would have nothing to do. Big guys from K1 like Schilt/LeBanner.. although theyre really old now |
He for sure isn't talentless. You can hate his antics all you want, but I'd say Lesnar is at least somewhat talented. I'd give him some more time before you start saying things like that. And I would like to see Schilt or LeBanner take him on, I think it might not be as one-sided as you'd think. |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickBateman wrote: |
| Frankly Mr Shankly wrote: |
| Fedor is a massive girl if he doesn't step up and fight Lesnar now. That is all. |
Blame Dana, not Fedor.
Fedor>Brock. |
I agree with both of these statements. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:04 am Post subject: |
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I like to hear these guys discuss the latest MMA and pro wrestling news every Wednesdays (in Korea) on their entertaining Between the Ropes radio/online show. A lot of insights, inside information and humor.
http://www.betweentheropes.com/
They tend to think that Brock may emerge as one of the top pay-per-view draws of all time (in a league with boxing's Mike Tyson and Oscar de la Hoya)
I'm looking forward to an eventual Lesnar- Bobby Lashley match-up of former WWE champions.
Shane Carwin - one of his potential challengers in the near term - was very critical of Brock's behavior (especially his giving the bird to the fans...) |
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phoneboothface
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Korea
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Leafs42084
Joined: 31 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
| Leafs42084 wrote: |
The guy is classless and talentless. He is powerful and very fast for his size. I would like to see him against other heavyweights who cut to 265. I want to see a couple heavyweight kickboxers with a good sprawl...
Lesnar would have nothing to do. Big guys from K1 like Schilt/LeBanner.. although theyre really old now |
He for sure isn't talentless. You can hate his antics all you want, but I'd say Lesnar is at least somewhat talented. I'd give him some more time before you start saying things like that. And I would like to see Schilt or LeBanner take him on, I think it might not be as one-sided as you'd think. |
ok, maybe talentless was a bit too harsh since his wrestling is good. But he's getting by and winning fights based on size, strength and athleticism. His standup is a pure joke as well as his BJJ.
I have yet to be impressed in any of his UFC fights. He showed him the Heath fight that he had nothing for him. He showed in the first Mir fight that he doesnt know the first thing about submissions. His clinch game was exposed against a 44 year old man.
He would lose in a thai boxing/kickboxing fight. He would lose in a submissions match. He wins in MMA fights right now because of just pure power and hammerfists.
dont get me wrong though, the heavyweight division is so crappy he will probably reign for a while. |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Leafs42084 wrote: |
ok, maybe talentless was a bit too harsh since his wrestling is good. But he's getting by and winning fights based on size, strength and athleticism. His standup is a pure joke as well as his BJJ. |
Since when have size/strength/athleticism been negative attributes for a fighter to have? You could then say the same thing about lots of fighters. Matt Hughes was so dominant because of his freakish strength. GSP is lucky he has such an uncanny level of athleticism. Alves just outpowered everyone in his division (until GSP). A lot of times, I think MMA fans get so caught up in technique that they forget that size/strength/athleticism is also hugely important for a fighter. It's the same as getting better at BJJ or MT--MMA athletes should try to be stronger and more athletic. Coupled with technique, an athletic/strong MMA fighter is dominant (I think Fedor's top bench is 174kg/about 375lbs). So Lesnar is lucky to have size/strength/athleticism down. If he's winning fights with those attributes, to me, it's no different than if he submitted Frank with an Omoplata.
| Quote: |
| I have yet to be impressed in any of his UFC fights. He showed him the Heath fight that he had nothing for him. He showed in the first Mir fight that he doesnt know the first thing about submissions. His clinch game was exposed against a 44 year old man. |
As I said earlier, give Brock some time. You expect him to suddenly become a master of MMA techniques right off the bat? Frank Mir's been studying BJJ for almost a decade now and when Brock makes some rookie mistake in his second major fight and gets submitted, all it shows is that he DIDN'T "know the first thing about submissions". His second meeting with Mir shows that he has improved markedly. Let's see Frank get matched up against Brock in his first wrestling match. If Mir lost in horrible fashion, would you start marking Mir off as a total loser? No. All fighters are in a constant state of improving themselves. Same goes for his weaknesses against Couture.
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| He would lose in a thai boxing/kickboxing fight. He would lose in a submissions match. He wins in MMA fights right now because of just pure power and hammerfists. |
See my previous points. He's just started out. It really seems to me like a lot of MMA fans are having trouble separating their hate for Lesnar from someone that could become an absolutely amazing fighter. I'm not a big Lesnar fan, I'm just trying to be impartial.
| Quote: |
| dont get me wrong though, the heavyweight division is so crappy he will probably reign for a while. |
The heavyweight division is interesting to me because a lot of up-and-coming heavyweights both in and out of the UFC are doing some impressive things. Carwin, the Grim, Cain, etc. |
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Leafs42084
Joined: 31 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
| Leafs42084 wrote: |
ok, maybe talentless was a bit too harsh since his wrestling is good. But he's getting by and winning fights based on size, strength and athleticism. His standup is a pure joke as well as his BJJ. |
Since when have size/strength/athleticism been negative attributes for a fighter to have? You could then say the same thing about lots of fighters. Matt Hughes was so dominant because of his freakish strength. GSP is lucky he has such an uncanny level of athleticism. Alves just outpowered everyone in his division (until GSP). A lot of times, I think MMA fans get so caught up in technique that they forget that size/strength/athleticism is also hugely important for a fighter. It's the same as getting better at BJJ or MT--MMA athletes should try to be stronger and more athletic. Coupled with technique, an athletic/strong MMA fighter is dominant (I think Fedor's top bench is 174kg/about 375lbs). So Lesnar is lucky to have size/strength/athleticism down. If he's winning fights with those attributes, to me, it's no different than if he submitted Frank with an Omoplata.
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You cant compare Lesnar and GSP, they are totally different. While GSP is known for his size/strength and athleticism in the WW division, keep in mind that it is a 15 pound range, not 60 pounds like the HW division
Also, GSP has outstanding takedowns as well as a sprawl. While not powerful, he has very accurate crisp strikes. He's able to transition very well as we saw a few nights ago going from a strike to a takedown. His submissions in my opinion is just good, nothing to write home about. His ground and pound is among the best. He hardly wins fights just by strength and size.
Matt Hughes is also nothing like Lesnar. While he was known for being strong and slamming people, the guy is amazing at ground and pound, by the far te best ground and pound legacy in my opinion. He also was very good at grappling in the sense that he can take you down and improve position. Not to mention he may not train traditional gi BJJ, but he is still a black belt level skill wise.
I think if you go back to the day the Matt Hughes started MMA, perhaps he was more similar to Brock.
Im not discounting that Brock is total crap. Anyone can see he has potential and is immensely quick for his size. Im just saying that people talk like he's the next coming of christ. He may very well become the best HW in UFC history, but as of right now, he is just getting by on strength without any talent. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'd bet the house that Lesnar would finish either Schilt or Lebanner within a couple minutes.
Unless they could perfectly time a big kick, his take-down should mow 'em right down, and once they're down they'll get pounded out.
I think Hong man Choi - because of his strength - would have a better chance of lasting against him, but he would likely take too many shots to the head than medically advisable if Lesnar were able to mount him. |
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