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aboxofchocolates
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Location: on your mind
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 Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| aboxofchocolates wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| OK, then how much would it cost to feed that many people? I wouldn't imagine it would cost that much compared to say bailing out investment banks. If the Federal Government has all the stats, why don't they do something about it? It certainly isn't through lack of funds. |
Oh man, a bunch of awesome and profitable reasons.
For starters, feeding starving people costs a bunch of money, and that is money you can only expect to get back when you have a need for their labour, say during a war or in an upswing in the economy. The war in Iraq was a bit of a joke, it didn't require the sort of manpower that would seriously shake up the economy. The US is a military powerhouse. A war with China might do the trick.
But starving people are ornery, so you have to feed them a bit so as not to waste money shooting them Kidding, kidding, that goes against the ideology that keeps the USA afloat. the middle class wouldn't put up with the rich shooting the poor- what if they became poor some day?). However, and get this, this is where the USA and industry have got together and came up with an awful solution which is mutually beneficial: Workfare and private prisons!
The state has a bunch of people they want to keep from revolting. Industry has a labour cost it wants to reduce. So, state and industry get together, go splits on the cost of labor for menial, awful work no one in their right mind would perform if they weren't completely coerced into it. Industry gets to offset the cost of labour on the state. The state gets to keep its welfare cases on the brink of starvation and therefore just a hairsbreadth from rebelling. If they do rebel, the state can just ship them off to some private prison where their labour is sold at an even lower cost and they cost even less to feed and maintain. You hear the public moaning about what a cost it is for the state to maintain a prisoner, but you don't hear what a profit it is for a private prison to have cheap prisoners.
Now what makes a person poor? Socio-economic interrelated factors like race, class, gender, education (access to education) etc, you know the drill. It's replicated every generation, maintained with some brilliant and ever evolving system of coercion, and every now and then a person manages through a LOT of luck (everyone puts in effort when they are starving) to struggle out of their situation and justify the American Ideology, pie in the sky or whatever. It's brilliant, it diabolical, it works like a charm. Until the state can no longer afford to keep people on the brink of starvation, it will continue to work. Though, the American government being what it is, it would be easy for it to hand control over to private industry which does have the wealth to maintain military control over an extended period of time. Never fear, the American way of life will be maintained for many generations into the future, barring some massive unpredictable disaster. |
Hmmm. So, what do you propose? Some people on this board advocate giving them more money. |
Huge revamping of current system, wresting power and weath from the upper classes, revolution. You know, the sort of thing that will never happen. Just because it will never happen and could never work doesn't mean it's not the most ethical option we have. |
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aboxofchocolates
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Location: on your mind
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| You know, a strict Marxist theorist is all about cutting social services and food banks and the like. These people you refer to as leftists, who want to give money to the poor and alleviate their suffering- politically that is centrist. Right wing folks can be pompous jerks for prescribing starvation with the expectation that is the right way to inspire incentive (though any educated right wing theorist knows even at the best of times 3% of the population is going to be starving). At least they anticipate this will cause an improvement in the individual’s life- that’s not quite so morally reprehensible. A strict Marxist wants to cut social spending to force a revolution- I don’t think anyone believes any individual’s life would be significantly improved by forcing them to be a revolutionary. That is about as deplorable as it gets, all to justify some ends that you can not guarantee and the people in question have not agreed to. So, in answer to your question, yes, give them more money. Give them lots of money. In fact, give them all the money- a far more ethical way to instigate a revolution than starving a discontented lower class into action would be to shake up the current system beyond salvation and be forced in that way to fix it. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:46 am Post subject: Benefits |
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| Are you courageous enough to admit you've claimed government benefits before |
Yes. I paid taxes for 28 years when I was fully employed in government, & felt no qualms whatsoever, claiming unemployment benefits for 3-4 months, earlier this year. |
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vaticanhotline
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: in the most decent sometimes sun
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Fromtheuk is claiming government benefits |
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| fromtheuk wrote: |
My Saudi visa has been delayed. It's frustrating, but I've been told I should get my visa soon and will leave for Saudi by the end of October, at the very latest.
I will now receive 60-odd pounds a week from the government. They'll back date my pay, but it may take 3 weeks to process.
I'm living with family anyway.
I know Americans look down on people who claim government benefits, but I've 'got off my a$$ and found a job'. I'm just waiting for my employer-to-be to get on with things.
Are you courageous enough to admit you've claimed government benefits before?  |
Why the OP feels it necessary to broadcast his current employment status on the internet, let alone on this particular forum, makes me wonder how much time he has on his hands.  |
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Zulethe
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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As much as I hate asmiths parrot like gloom and doom ad nauseum, there is some good news and bad news.
The good news is that the dollar is tanking so our wages are going to be worth more.
The bad news is that we owe China trillions of dollars and should they decide to ween us (U.S.) off the money nipple the great depression will be here in full force.
This isn't going to happen because of our symbiotic relationship with China.
Hold on to your won until it hits 1000 to the dollar. I guarantee right now it will hit that by the end of the year or early into the new year and then it will vascillate around there.
800 to the dollar is also a real possibility. |
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Zulethe
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ^posted reply to wrong post disregard |
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asmith
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Fromtheuk is now a welfare witch!
It beats working for a living. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Do they owe us a living
Of course they f*&% do
A great song by Crass. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ekul wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| You've also prolly gotta have a licence to lay a brick. |
Of course you need some kind of qualification to lay bricks, ever seen a good bricklayer than can lay over 1000 bricks a day?
Never claimed the dole and hopefully never will. As for fromtheuk, in your situation when you've been working in Korea and are claiming the dole for a few weeks of unemployment I find it pretty weak. You didn't save enough in Korea to tide you over a month of two of living at home with your parents? |
Bollox. The guy's probably paid taxes and N.I. before, so why shouldn't he get a little back. That's. What. It's. There. for.
Why be so insulting? Maybe he's thinking
'ah screw it I can't be btohered to do temp waiting for three weeks, I'd like to relax, doss about a bit and see me mates for 3 weeks before leaving again...'
Big deal. Not like he's palnning to go on the rock n roll long term
And yes (not sure where he is, but I can speak for the S.E and London) there are always sh*tlots of temp jobs going - cleaning / waiting / callroom etc...) |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| The same situation appears for single women. If you have no skills, you will be on the $12 an hour minimum wage. About $320 a week after taxes. But if you pop out a kid you can get the same amount, if not more by the time you add in other allowances. I'm not blaming welfare recipients in any way, they are just making the most rational decision for them, but what kind of world is it where this is considered to be the right thing to do? |
How many women do you honestly know who have kids in order to get a few hundred dollars a week? I'm sure there are plenty of idiots who have kids just to get benefits, but I'm quite doubtful that the majority of women decide to have children entirely for monetary gain. |
Sadly they exist. I once had a gf back home who wanted to
'get a bun in the oven so I can get me own flat.'
Luckilly I didn't comply. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
The U.S is still, despite the recent situation, one of the richest countries on earth and has been for some time. Do you think that could have something to do with free economic policies? At least until the FDR era.
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Perhaps you slept through the end of WW2 until now. How on earth could you possibly conclude that the US was a leading economy which stopped being so after FDR?
Oh, btw, I'd still like to know how increasing your income by less than 25% by having a baby is a logical choice for unskilled single women. Call me crazy, but the cost of raising a child is usually more than 25% of the cost of supporting yourself. |
They get housing paid, dole money AND child benefits to cover child rearing. |
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fromtheuk
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm applying for jobs in England while I wait for the Saudi visa. I've been told by my recruiter more visas will be issued this week, some people have already flown out there.
As long as I finally get a job, I'll continue to wait. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| fromtheuk wrote: |
I'm applying for jobs in England while I wait for the Saudi visa. I've been told by my recruiter more visas will be issued this week, some people have already flown out there.
As long as I finally get a job, I'll continue to wait. |
So how long in total from initial application to recruiter to finally getting visa for S.A...?
Just curious Del. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| fromtheuk wrote: |
I'm applying for jobs in England while I wait for the Saudi visa. I've been told by my recruiter more visas will be issued this week, some people have already flown out there.
As long as I finally get a job, I'll continue to wait. |
Try to get the Visa before you go there. Persian Gulf countries are famous for bringing you in on a tourist Visa and then taking your passport as insurence against you pulling a runner. The process of tranfering my tourist Visa to work visa took three months in the UAE. Most Persian gulf countries have the same system. |
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fromtheuk
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:14 am Post subject: |
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From early September. Originally, we were meant to fly out on September 23rd/24th. Because of the end of Ramadhan and Eid holidays, there was a delay.
They say 33 more visas may be issued this week, they also say the longest delay possible is by the end of October.
People have actually got visas and flown out to Saudi, but this requires patience. It'll be worth it if it works out.
Otherwise, it's China or back to sparkling. 
We've been assured we won't have our passports taken. We'll be on government work visas which means no medical is required before arrival. |
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