|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
 Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| youtuber wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Israel is a fairly reliable ally in a region where the U.S has serious national interests. It has far more to do with that as opposed to the "influential Jews in NYC say". |
Yeah I would partly agree with that. But there is more to it than gaining an ally in the middle east.
I would say that the US relationship with Saudi Arabia is cozy enough, and that is mostly where their interests lie right?
And since most of their interests lie in Saudi Arabia, namely Ghawar, do you think it helps the US relationship with Saudi to provide Israel with billions of dollars in weapons to eradicate a muslim enemy?
I mean, if the US wants to protect its interests in the oil of muslim producing countries, why would it give weapons to an age-old enemy of muslims? Unless there is something else behind it? |
Because Saudi Arabia is not a reliable ally. The U.S-Saudi relationship is more of a business deal...dollars for oil.
The U.S wants a pair of reliable eyes in the region so as to speak and Mossad is among the best in the business. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Israel is a fairly reliable ally in a region where the U.S has serious national interests. It has far more to do with that as opposed to the "influential Jews in NYC say". |
Like on June 8, 1967 when
| Quote: |
| The Israeli forces attacked [the USS Liberty] with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. |
|
I clicked on the link in hopes of seeing a story by a reputable news organization (TIME, Newsweek, The Economist....) and I get a conspiracy theory site.
It'll take a little more than that. |
Reliance solely on MSM (TIME, Newsweek, The Economist....) explains the extraordinary lack of good information.
So now "conspiracy theory" means anything with which TUM disagrees? The USS Liberty Memorial is a conspiracy theory site???  
Also extraordinary is one can be so completely ignorant of the USS Liberty incident. It has been a full seven years since it was revealed.
| Wikipedia wrote: |
| The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli jet fighter planes and motor torpedo boats on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and a civilian), wounded 171 crew members, and damaged the ship severely. The ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nautical miles (47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish. |
Short YouTube video Israeli attack on USS Liberty (US Navy ship).
Full-length BBC documentary Dead in the Water. Includes US servicemen from the attacked ship.
Read Ship Without a Country: Eyewitness Accounts of the USS Liberty Attack.
Or The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U. S. Navy Spy Ship by A. Jay Cristol
If you are still not convinced, I can provide more. Oh, right. They are ALL CT sites. 
But even a US military website?
USS Liberty (AGTR-5) -- Attack by Israeli forces, 8 June 1967
I love it when people call me out on my info!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Israel is a fairly reliable ally in a region where the U.S has serious national interests. It has far more to do with that as opposed to the "influential Jews in NYC say". |
Like on June 8, 1967 when
| Quote: |
| The Israeli forces attacked [the USS Liberty] with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. |
|
I clicked on the link in hopes of seeing a story by a reputable news organization (TIME, Newsweek, The Economist....) and I get a conspiracy theory site.
It'll take a little more than that. |
Reliance solely on MSM (TIME, Newsweek, The Economist....) explains the extraordinary lack of good information.
So now "conspiracy theory" means anything with which TUM disagrees? The USS Liberty Memorial is a conspiracy theory site???
Also extraordinary is one can be so completely ignorant of the USS Liberty incident. It has been a full seven years since it was revealed.
| Wikipedia wrote: |
| The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli jet fighter planes and motor torpedo boats on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and a civilian), wounded 171 crew members, and damaged the ship severely. The ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nautical miles (47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish. |
Short YouTube video Israeli attack on USS Liberty (US Navy ship).
Full-length BBC documentary Dead in the Water. Includes US servicemen from the attacked ship.
Read Ship Without a Country: Eyewitness Accounts of the USS Liberty Attack.
Or The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U. S. Navy Spy Ship by A. Jay Cristol
If you are still not convinced, I can provide more. Oh, right. They are ALL CT sites.
But even a US military website?
USS Liberty (AGTR-5) -- Attack by Israeli forces, 8 June 1967
I love it when people call me out on my info! |
It's a conspiracy site not because of the information provided, but because of the way it is provided in. They claim it was a deliberate attack done with full knowledge of the Israeli military and covered up by the U.S.
In contrast your U.S military website makes no such allegations.
As for the books and videos...anybody can make claims. If I wrote a book about dragons...would you think dragons exist (and I'm not talking about the Komodo version either.)?
Nice try though.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| It's a conspiracy site not because of the information provided, but because of the way it is provided in. They claim it was a deliberate attack done with full knowledge of the Israeli military and covered up by the U.S. |
NEWSFLASH! Sometimes people actually act together to do stuff!
How typical. Only propaganda put out by MSM and governments is credible, but all the documentation otherwise and words of servicemen themselves are not.
All the confirmation I cited is all in on the conspiracy according to you.
Deny reality much?
How about some expert opinions:
| Special Assistant to the President Clark Clifford, in his report to President Lyndon Johnson wrote: |
| That the Liberty could have been mistaken for the Egyptian supply ship El Quseir is unbelievable. |
| US Secretary of State Dean Rusk wrote: |
| I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. . . . Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous. |
| Former NSA Director retired Army Lieutenant General William Odom on 3 March 2003 in an interview for Naval Institute Proceedings wrote: |
| That the attack was deliberate "just wasn't a disputed issue" within the National Security Agency. |
| Lyndon Johnson's biographer Robert Dallek in Flawed Giant, Oxford University Press, 1998 on pp. 430-31 wrote: |
| The highest officials of the [Johnson] administration, including the President, believed it 'inconceivable' that Israel's 'skilled' defense forces could have committed such a gross error. |
| CIA Director Richard Helms wrote: |
| ...the board of inquiry (concluded) that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty. |
OK, now proceed to keep digging your hole. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| It's a conspiracy site not because of the information provided, but because of the way it is provided in. They claim it was a deliberate attack done with full knowledge of the Israeli military and covered up by the U.S. |
NEWSFLASH! Sometimes people actually act together to do stuff!
How typical. Only propaganda put out by MSM and governments is credible, but all the documentation otherwise and words of servicemen themselves are not.
All the confirmation I cited is all in on the conspiracy according to you.
Deny reality much?
How about some expert opinions:
| Special Assistant to the President Clark Clifford, in his report to President Lyndon Johnson wrote: |
| That the Liberty could have been mistaken for the Egyptian supply ship El Quseir is unbelievable. |
| US Secretary of State Dean Rusk wrote: |
| I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. . . . Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous. |
| Former NSA Director retired Army Lieutenant General William Odom on 3 March 2003 in an interview for Naval Institute Proceedings wrote: |
| That the attack was deliberate "just wasn't a disputed issue" within the National Security Agency. |
| Lyndon Johnson's biographer Robert Dallek in Flawed Giant, Oxford University Press, 1998 on pp. 430-31 wrote: |
| The highest officials of the [Johnson] administration, including the President, believed it 'inconceivable' that Israel's 'skilled' defense forces could have committed such a gross error. |
| CIA Director Richard Helms wrote: |
| ...the board of inquiry (concluded) that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty. |
OK, now proceed to keep digging your hole. |
Expert opinions? These are politicians giving opinions. Nobody knows for sure except the Israelis.
Seems to me you're quick enough to disbelieve the experts when it comes to bank bail-outs. Or the governing of the country.
Give me a break.
Besides which we are getting off-topic. An event that happened in 1967 is hardly a current event nor is it the title of this thread.
If you want to discuss this then please create a separate thread or if you have one already...kindly direct me there. Thank you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| OK, now proceed to keep digging your hole. |
Expert opinions? These are politicians giving opinions. Nobody knows for sure except the Israelis.
Seems to me you're quick enough to disbelieve the experts when it comes to bank bail-outs. Or the governing of the country.
Give me a break.
Besides which we are getting off-topic. An event that happened in 1967 is hardly a current event nor is it the title of this thread.
If you want to discuss this then please create a separate thread or if you have one already...kindly direct me there. Thank you. |
Weak, but OK, I give. You're right, it never happened. Just my conspiratorial imagination. Never mind.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
