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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Truman never went to university.
Orwell attended Eton, an "elite"(read:toffy snobs) school to be sure, but not a university.
Einstein, yes, went to the school mentioned by a poster above, but it was more of a tech institute rather than a university.
Bill Gates was a college dropout, was he not?
In my books, education should be "free" but not compulsory for ages 6-16. In post-war Canada, at least, the massive gov. subsidization of higher education has benefitted the upper-middle to upper classes rather than hoi polloi. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009 Location: Gyeonggi-do
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peppermint

Joined: 13 May 2003 Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
Peppermint, I am a native Edmontonian and went to the U of A for a year. It is a good university and very strong in engineering, medicine, and some humanities programs (although they are quite "lefty" by Alberta standards).
This isn't relevant to the thread and perhaps I should have PMed, but maybe it's useful for people to know more about the place. I don't support such giant tuition increases, but the university was not generally one to gouge people in the past, although their Soviet civil service-style customer service always left a lot to be desired. |
I'm looking at the MLIS program, which is only offered at a handful of schools in Canada, and not at MUN, unfortunately. Right now, the program looks really limited in comparison with other schools, and the possibility of a huge tuition jump is rather large black mark against it.
My half sister, who graduated from there said it's very much a research school, meaning lots of the professors consider teaching to be an annoyance at best. She also said they went on a building spree during the oil boom, and now have seven or eight half completed buildings, and they're passing the cost on to students since government funding and private donations have dried up.
Anyone got anything good to say about the place? |
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Moldy Rutabaga

Joined: 01 Jul 2003 Location: Ansan, Korea
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Much of the U of A architecture does seem 70s-ish, as there was a large building spree under Lougheed's government. He was a rather middle-of-the-road conservative premier who poured money into the university and was well-liked. Too bad.
I like Edmonton but have mixed feelings about the U of A. I felt really cheated when I did an afterdegree program in Education there and was paying full tuition and an extra fee-- to work for nothing as a teacher in my third practicum while my co-op teacher drank coffee in the staff room and then told me all the things I did wrong. That wasn't entirely the university's fault, but their overall attitude soured me. It is not a friendly university.
Peppermint, you could consider UBC or UT for your program, although both are expensive places to live. At least in Vancouver you would be warm while you starve. Unless there are problems with cross-border certification, if I were in your place I would look at a midwestern university in the states such as in Indiana or Illionois, or if money isn't a big problem an eastern one such as Rutgers, which apparently has good MLIS programs. The US universities generally have better financial support and GAs, excluding a few states such as California which won't fund Canadians.
| Quote: |
| In post-war Canada, at least, the massive gov. subsidization of higher education has benefitted the upper-middle to upper classes rather than hoi polloi. |
I still don't see how this is true. The upper classes don't need subsidization and tend to go to very expensive elite universities which have less subsidization. To me, government support of post-secondary education makes it possible for a single mother to go to community college to be a nurse. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Morrison: OK, Truman attended the KC School of Law which, at the time, was not exactly a "university" in the contemporary sense. Regardless, we can agree that Truman never graduated.
Moldy: Sorry to hear about your practicum experience. Sadly, in Canada at least, that kind of experience is not unique to the U of A.
I stand by my quoted statement. The student body at any given Canuck univ. is certainly not comprised, by & large, of the great unwashed. Indeed, well-off minorities get more financial support, directly and indirectly, than white male Anglophones of humble means. |
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Draz

Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Location: Land of Morning Clam
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
I'm looking at the MLIS program, which is only offered at a handful of schools in Canada, and not at MUN, unfortunately. Right now, the program looks really limited in comparison with other schools, and the possibility of a huge tuition jump is rather large black mark against it. |
I had no idea you wanted to do the same degree I do!! Let me know what you decide to do... |
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Draz

Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Location: Land of Morning Clam
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
I stand by my quoted statement. The student body at any given Canuck univ. is certainly not comprised, by & large, of the great unwashed. Indeed, well-off minorities get more financial support, directly and indirectly, than white male Anglophones of humble means. |
Females don't get any special treatment either dude.  |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Not true. Females who enter "non-traditional" fields like engineering have all sorts of openings & scholarships available to them. Males who want to enter nursing? Nada. Moreover, law schools have reserved spaces for women & minorities.
But we're getting off-topic for this thread. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
| To me, government support of post-secondary education makes it possible for a single mother to go to community college to be a nurse. |
It's possible to subsidize that woman without at the same time subsidizing rubbish like business majors. |
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aboxofchocolates

Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Location: on your mind
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
Morrison: OK, Truman attended the KC School of Law which, at the time, was not exactly a "university" in the contemporary sense. Regardless, we can agree that Truman never graduated.
Moldy: Sorry to hear about your practicum experience. Sadly, in Canada at least, that kind of experience is not unique to the U of A.
I stand by my quoted statement. The student body at any given Canuck univ. is certainly not comprised, by & large, of the great unwashed. Indeed, well-off minorities get more financial support, directly and indirectly, than white male Anglophones of humble means. |
Haha, you just can't go saying such things and plea 'off-topic'! Not when another facet of the oppressed life of the contemporary white, english speaking male is being examined. Mais non (trying to resurrect my grade 8 french montreal massacre who said that?)! BTW, you will be delighted to note googling 'male nurse scholarships' produces 203,000 results, so among those there might be one or two exceptions to the 'nada' available to male nurses. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| It's possible to subsidize that woman without at the same time subsidizing rubbish like business majors. |
Business school had me work in small and large groups, so it was necessary to work with people whether you wanted to or not. Arts majors don't get this exposure and I believe it prepares you well for the real world because you have to deal with real issues when working with others. Multiple 30/45/60 minute presentations were conducted every semester which is also excellent preparation for public speaking. Networking events are mandatory as well as co-op in many business programs. I know way too many arts majors that have no clue how to work with people, network or give a decent presentation. Business school didn't teach me these things per se, but it sure as hell forced me to do these things on a weekly basis which was invaluable. I'm also an accounting major and accounting is hardly useless. Boring yes but useless no. Public audit and even private industry are always crying for accountants with proper professional designations. A business degree with a concentration in accounting can get you to the articling phase. The same can be said with a finance concentration major to put you on route to a CFA designation. You seem to overlook these education paths, which account for the majority of business degrees, and that only shows you have no idea what you are talking about. You sound like another arts student that just has a hate on for business students because the few you know act like elitist twits. Fair enough. Business school is full of them, but that doesn't make the entire faculty useless.
I will admit that a lot of "business school" is useless (HR?Marketing?)and is a poor attempt at splitting hairs, but your sweeping statement about the overall "uselessness" of a business degree is completely false and ignorant.
As a business major, I must say I'm sorry for my useless education being funded by your tax dollars.  |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It's possible to subsidize that woman without at the same time subsidizing rubbish like business majors. |
Business school had me work in small and large groups, so it was necessary to work with people whether you wanted to or not. Arts majors don't get this exposure and I believe it prepares you well for the real world ... |
You know what else prepares you for the real world? The real world itself. I don't think the government should be subsidizing people "Learning to work with others." That's hardcore gradeschool stuff.
Pretty much everything you listed should really be a part of general education at the high school level or before. Hell, most of it I personally did learn in high school.
| misher wrote: |
| As a business major, I must say I'm sorry for my useless education being funded by your tax dollars. |
And I'm sorry for my Philosophy education being funded with yours. It's not as if I'm applying some standard to you that I'm not applying to myself. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009 Location: Gyeonggi-do
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| Business school had me work in small and large groups, so it was necessary to work with people whether you wanted to or not. Arts majors don't get this exposure and I believe it prepares you well for the real world because you have to deal with real issues when working with others. |
I don't know about where you went to university but it's no different in the arts and humanities nowadays. Low graduate employ-ability makes universities look bad so they're forcing everyone to work in groups and give presentations. At least that's the case at most UK universities nowadays. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| I know way too many arts majors that have no clue how to work with people, network or give a decent presentation. |
I'm putting this in my What's Wrong with the World folder, in the subfolder Unintentionally Revealing. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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You know what else prepares you for the real world? The real world itself. I don't think the government should be subsidizing people "Learning to work with others." That's hardcore gradeschool stuff.
Pretty much everything you listed should really be a part of general education at the high school level or before. Hell, most of it I personally did learn in high school. |
Working in groups/presentations is just a side benefit you get from the degree. If you read my post you would see that I said a business degree doesn't teach you these things but forces you to do them along the way, which helps. Finance and accounting have their uses which you chose to ignore in my post. I don't know about you, but learning complicated material about currency markets, swaps, corporate taxation procedure/law and management accounting would be a quite a daunting task for any high school student. Take a finance degree or an accounting degree and get back to me on it. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
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| And I'm sorry for my Philosophy education being funded with yours. It's not as if I'm applying some standard to you that I'm not applying to myself. |
Where did I attack philosophy? Please point that out for me please? I was merely attacking your ignorant stance on the "uselessness" of business school for our economy to function. Our society needs capable and HONEST finance, accounting and tax professionals which you casually won't comment on and casually brush aside.
I think philiosophy has its strengths as it forces one to write well and think differently. It would actually be my choice if I were to go back and do a second undergrad. I acknowledge that most degrees have their advantages and society needs more of certain types of education (Engineering/Science etc) but you seem to have this insane bias towards business school and refuse to acknowledge that their are components of a business degree that society needs.
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| I don't know about where you went to university but it's no different in the arts and humanities nowadays. Low graduate employ-ability makes universities look bad so they're forcing everyone to work in groups and give presentations. At least that's the case at most UK universities nowadays. |
Maybe things have changed in Canada. All I know is that the arts majors that were minoring in business were always griping about the number of presentations and being forced to work with adults they didn't want to. It was actually the part of their business classes they hated the most because writing papers for their other classes were done solo. I told them that after they finish their sociology degree and get a job in the real world, then you are going to be faced with these problems. It's funny because most of them upon finishing their degree and floating around, went back to business school to complete the prerequisities to enter a CPA/CA articling stream. It is what society needs and these programs were not cheap. |
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