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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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 Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Rteacher wrote:
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| It's evident that someone - other than an ordinary human - has intelligently provided all that's needed in the way of sunshine, rainfall, organic matter, etc. |
...do you really believe this stuff you type?
I mean really...someone? 
I'm all for spiritualism, but those kinds of statements debase intelligent thought.
Then again, you just might be playing fast and loose with non specific pronouns in noun clauses...if so...by all means...have at it. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| This is not a science board. People are entitled to have faith if they so choose. You (obviously) don't have to agree. |
If someone makes a scientific claim one would expect scientific backing of said claim. If someone says that modern food will kill everyone because the plants and animals are angry with us for changing their diet, I for one would like evidence of this.
BTW, I'm a wiccan, and I cast a fortune spell on the economy, so in a week, we should expect to see the economy in the same state it was in during the dot com boom. |
I am obviously referring to claims which cannot be easily tested, things which are unknowable. To have faith in something easily disproven would be folly. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
Rteacher wrote:
| Quote: |
| It's evident that someone - other than an ordinary human - has intelligently provided all that's needed in the way of sunshine, rainfall, organic matter, etc. |
...do you really believe this stuff you type?
I mean really...someone?
I'm all for spiritualism, but those kinds of statements debase intelligent thought.
Then again, you just might be playing fast and loose with non specific pronouns in noun clauses...if so...by all means...have at it. |
Most of the posts in response to what I have posted grossly distort what I've asserted (eg: that I claim that plants and animals are exacting vengeance on humans ... ) are hardly worth responding to.
I'll respond to this one because the underlying assumption seems to be that impersonal spiritualism is more rational than belief in a Supreme Person.
Defining the Absolute Truth as that from which (or from whom) everything has emanated - including all persons - it makes more sense to assume that the Absolute Truth has both personal and impersonal qualities - and personal form (transcendental - not material) is superior to impersonal spirit in terms of experiencing real pleasure (the purpose of life).
The original person expanded into innumerable spirit-souls so that He could experience infinite varieties of loving relationships - which we can partake in at the liberated stage. In our material conditional existence, our consciousness is polluted by false identification with matter, and we are controlled by the laws of nature - including karma.
Ultimately, all man-made belief systems are irrelevant - we are all eternally subordinate particles of the infinitely conscious supreme being. So, whatever the Supreme Person has ordained is the way that it's going to go down.
Regarding Pascal's wager, one can perhaps find logical inconsistencies using imperfect, sectarian conceptions of God (like the Judeo-Christian or Muslim conceptions) but it basically makes sense with the Vedic personalist conception of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| Ultimately, all man-made belief systems are irrelevant ... |
Now if only you realized your own belief system is almost assuredly purely man-made.
| Rteacher wrote: |
| Regarding Pascal's wager, one can perhaps find logical inconsistencies using imperfect, sectarian conceptions of God (like the Judeo-Christian or Muslim conceptions) but it basically makes sense with the Vedic personalist conception of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. |
No, it doesn't make sense. It's nothing more than an attempt to project animal traits like intelligence, emotion, and desire onto the universe in hopes of coming to easy answers. History has proven how faulty this methodology is; the path to real knowledge of the world around us lies not in projection, but in investigation. |
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Harpeau
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Coquitlam, BC
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| Ultimately, all man-made belief systems are irrelevant - we are all eternally subordinate particles of the infinitely conscious supreme being. So, whatever the Supreme Person has ordained is the way that it's going to go down.... |
Personally, I find that to be very fatalistic IMHO. What if a Supreme Being created us with Free will and actual choices and makes us responsible for the directions that we chosoe?! Bringing it back to the original posting, I would agree with you that we need to be careful concerning what we put into our bodies. On that Rteacher, I commend you. But Eastern Mystical philosophies have usually fallen short in regard to reality, morality, and personality. There is no basis for modern science. That's where I guess we both differ.
Interesting discussion.
Last edited by Harpeau on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
[
I'll respond to this one because the underlying assumption seems to be that impersonal spiritualism is more rational than belief in a Supreme Person.
Defining the Absolute Truth as that from which (or from whom) everything has emanated - including all persons - it makes more sense to assume that the Absolute Truth has both personal and impersonal qualities - and personal form (transcendental - not material) is superior to impersonal spirit in terms of experiencing real pleasure (the purpose of life). |
You say 'emanate', but Emanationism has nothing to do with any 'supreme person'. Emanationism holds that there is an original principle called the indefinite dyad, or unmoved mover. The unmoved mover doesn't desire 'loving relationships.' By implying so you throw your theology into a contradiction: you deprecate humans for being objectively fixated (having desires), while hailing the 'supreme person' for the same thing.
Last edited by Koveras on Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I find it annoying how in America the fruits and vegetables often don't have much flavor, the milk is filled with antibiotics. You have to be rather well-off to avoid such foods. That's not the case in Europe and certain parts of Asia. We are a means to an end when it comes to the corporations that play god with our food. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
Rteacher wrote:
| Quote: |
| It's evident that someone - other than an ordinary human - has intelligently provided all that's needed in the way of sunshine, rainfall, organic matter, etc. |
...do you really believe this stuff you type?
I mean really...someone?
I'm all for spiritualism, but those kinds of statements debase intelligent thought.
Then again, you just might be playing fast and loose with non specific pronouns in noun clauses...if so...by all means...have at it. |
Most of the posts in response to what I have posted grossly distort what I've asserted (eg: that I claim that plants and animals are exacting vengeance on humans ... ) are hardly worth responding to.
I'll respond to this one because the underlying assumption seems to be that impersonal spiritualism is more rational than belief in a Supreme Person.
Defining the Absolute Truth as that from which (or from whom) everything has emanated - including all persons - it makes more sense to assume that the Absolute Truth has both personal and impersonal qualities - and personal form (transcendental - not material) is superior to impersonal spirit in terms of experiencing real pleasure (the purpose of life).
The original person expanded into innumerable spirit-souls so that He could experience infinite varieties of loving relationships - which we can partake in at the liberated stage. In our material conditional existence, our consciousness is polluted by false identification with matter, and we are controlled by the laws of nature - including karma.
Ultimately, all man-made belief systems are irrelevant - we are all eternally subordinate particles of the infinitely conscious supreme being. So, whatever the Supreme Person has ordained is the way that it's going to go down.
Regarding Pascal's wager, one can perhaps find logical inconsistencies using imperfect, sectarian conceptions of God (like the Judeo-Christian or Muslim conceptions) but it basically makes sense with the Vedic personalist conception of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. |
Rteacher...you give a nice explanation as to your meaning of 'someone'.
While I don't quite agree with you, I respect your take on it.
It was not my intention to hijack your thread.
I do feel there is a debt to be paid when we don't respect the food we eat.
While karma may be the view you take...cancer is a real enough threat without having to branch into the metaphysical.
I respect that your intention of this thread was to raise awareness about the food industry and the harm that is out there.
I invest a great deal of money in the food I ingest...so far so good.
Only time will tell how genetically modified, heavily fertilized and pesticided food will play out for others.
No disrespect to you....all the best in health and happiness. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I've probably hijacked my own thread more than you or anyone else - but I was trying to take it to a better place - away from this polluted heap of crap we've been conditioned to call home. 
Most people I know around my age or older have cancer, and many of my poorer old friends have already died.
I really think that respect for all forms of life needs to be understood from a spiritual perspective. All individual souls have some loving propensity because we are all part-and-parcel of the Supreme Soul who has unlimited loving propensity.
In lower - more ignorant - lifeforms, the soul is more covered-over and consciousness is less developed, but in higher animal species there clearly is some expression of love.
In the Vedic model, lower forms automatically progress through the evolutionary cycle until they attain a human form with the capacity for full consciousness in the exercise of free will.
Animals that kill other animals do so by the dictates of nature and incur no sinful reaction, but humans - by dint of their greater capacity for spiritual and philosophical understanding - are held accountable for all unnecesary killing of lower lifeforms - including weeds and insects. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:50 am Post subject: |
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lower forms automatically progress through the evolutionary cycle until they attain a human form with the capacity for full consciousness in the exercise of free will. ...
...but humans - by dint of their greater capacity for spiritual and philosophical understanding - are held accountable for all unnecesary killing of lower lifeforms - including weeds and insects. |
...in this system...shouldn't humans be praised for the killing of these...lower forms...thereby speeding up their trip up the evolutionary cycle.  |
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