Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Unposter]

EBS offers regular free English classes on TV and there are far too many free resources on the Internet.

There really are plenty of opportunities if students want to invest the time.

[some waygug-in]

I know, but I'm thinking of something that perhaps could be offered in schools.

Something that is interactive, but interesting to children, not a bunch of grammar quizzes.

Something like kr.kids.yahoo, but with all English content perhaps.

[whome?]

[Unposter]

Call me cynical because I am...

You assume, despite some limited rhetoric you may have heard, that there really is a national concensus that having a bi-linugal society is desired.

Think about what it might mean:

1) diminished use of the Korean language at best, the elimination or secondary status of the Korean language at worst

2) With the changes in language come changes in culture which would further diminish traditional Korean culture

3) the population would be able to access other forms of media and see other ways of life leading to at best personal lifestyle changes and at worst massive governmental protests

4) the population would be able to travel, see other ways of life leading to at best personal lifestyle changes and at worst massive governmental protests

5) well-educated people would have the language skills to work anywhere but Korea

6) even not-so-well educated people would have the language skills to immigrate to other countries

7) 5 and 6 would lead to massive changes in labor relations and salaries

It could lead to a multi-cultural labor force and quite possibly to a multi-cultural society where Koreans would be equal to or even less than equal to people from other cultures

9) Thousands of years of fiercly protecting Korean identity from the Chinese and the Japanese up in smoke

Now, there is no question that Korea needs some fully fluent and even some semi-fluent workers, but it does not need a bi-lingual society. It needs a system where those who want to make the efforts can master English and those who choose to not learn English know their place as "failures" of society. There are no minimum standards; it is a straight competition and the education system is geared so that some people win and most lose. Worse, your lot in life is determined by one test taken at the end of high school and its score determines your social class for the rest of your life. And, since most "lose," all the people who are supposed to educate you are "losers" too because they failed to get you into the right university.

Now, they can blame themselves (many do) or they can blame others (many do). One of the many scapegoats in Korea is English education and foreign English teachers. It could be a "perfect" curriculum staffed by Ph.D.s from Oxford, Cambridge and the Ivy Leauge and their creme de le creme bretheren from across the world but still 1% of the population is going to a SKY university (Seoul, Korea or Yonsei) and the rest of the 99% are going to be "failures" and complain about the system because the system failed to get them into the university of their choice.

Now, this strong sense of competition has propelled Korea from the ashes of the Korean War to being (I can't remember exactly) the 7th largest economy in the world. It is an impressive leap Korea has made. But, it has had very heavy social costs IMHO. Koreans are a stressed out, generally miserable population except for about four years of university where the only Instructor who makes him or her work is their die hard Basic Conversation teacher and the 5% who work the elite jobs.

Now, I do think we foreign teachers play a very important role in Korean society because we do give them opportunites for social mobility, freedom and alternatives.

But, don't think that other Koreans are going to be happy by our presence. Some just won't. And, don't think that our ideas and our presences are going to be welcomed into their schools regardless of the power of our ideas. We are a threat to every Korean English teacher. Our success is their loss of respect and even livelihood. If foreign teachers turned the ship around and made English education a success for everyone, than Korean English teachers everywhere would be out of job. And, I know many of you would say good riddance but don't think all those Korean teachers are going to go without a fight. And, they know the language, the culture and have ears to all the people in power and we know and got nothing.

The only way any of this is going to work is by creating a win-win situation at your schools. You need to make them believe that you are some how beneficial to them or no matter how good of a teacher you are, no matter how well liked you are by the students, no matter what your education attainment is they are going to look for ways to get you out. Koreans are competitive people. And, if you want to be a teacher you are going to have to have won a number of competitions. These are not easy going people. They have fought tooth and nail to get into good universities, to pass the teachers exam, get hired and keep their jobs. And then, you come along and ruin everything.

That is the mentality most public school teachers face daily. Of course, every school is different but as a general rule that is the crux of the problem.

And FTs can wax poetically about hiring qualified teachers and raising salaries and how if only native speakers ran things and other self-serving things. But, that is the way you look to the Koreans. This person only cares about himself. He doesn't understand the team or Korean culture. It seems like he or she only cares about the money. He or she doesn't understand me and what I have to deal with on a daily basis and probably long after he or she has gone home. And, there are all sorts of things I would love to say to him or her but I don't want to be rude to their face until they cannot take it anymore and then they just blurt out something stupid.

Anyway, I am a little off topic. The bottom line is that I just don't believe that a system which would allow everyone to win at English education serves the real underlying purpose of English education for Koreans. Now, I am all for changing the system but I am too cynical to believe that it is worth my time and effort as it would lead to massive systematic change that is opposed by entrenched, rich, powerful forces. But, I would certainly cheer on the revolution.

[littlelisa]

I'm not saying that Korea needs a bilingual society, but I don't think it's as bad as you are making it out to be. For example:

- Sweden (or any other Scandinavian country, I guess). Pretty much every Swede speaks perfect English, especially in Stockholm. But their default language for everything is Swedish, not English. It doesn't look like it's showing any signs of disappearing. Swedish is not spoken anywhere outside of Sweden.

- Montreal. I know that the French are always complaining that they're going to see French disappear, but anyone who's lived there knows it'll never happen. In Montreal it's not that everyone speaks perfect English, but that most people are bilingual (unless you go far East where they speak mostly French, or far West where they speak mostly English). Anyone who's lived in Montreal for a decent amount of time will tell you that contrary to some politicians' whining, French isn't going anywhere.

With Montreal as an example, I would not be worried about Korean disappearing.

I think that for anyone anywhere (this goes for English speaking people too), learning another language well is a huuuuge plus. I don't really think it matters much which one as much as it does just learning one. Language learning is a good thing. So I think a bilingual country is good because it supports people's language learning.

[some waygug-in]

If there is a "national consensus" on anything it's that they DON'T want to learn English.

Despite claims to the contrary, what they really want are jobs, money and prestige.

I think most Koreans resent having to study English, resent having foreign teachers, resent the fact the they are losing control over their own society.

I'm not saying this is really happening, but I think this is how many Koreans percieve it .

[whome?]

I don't know if the idea that they don't want to be bilingual for fear of losing their culture is legitimate, but if it is it is the craziest piece of K-nationalism I've yet to come across.

But I highly doubt it's valid. Bad policy and methodology is a far more likely explanation.

[some waygug-in]

Really? what if you were living in your home country and suddenly the gov't started telling everyone they HAD to learn Korean. To get a decent job, you'd have to learn Korean. For your children to get a decent shot at a future, they'd have to learn Korean.

Then how crazy would it sound to you to feel your language and culture are being threatened?

[whome?]

[some waygug-in]

Are you even in Korea? Geeze, look around you.

No one says they have to learn English? Really?

I think you need to think on that some more.

[son of coco]

[maingman]

PRagic wrotte :

[i]1) Make learning English optional. A second/third language fluency should be mandatory for high school and university graduation, but the language shouldn't have to be English. Kindergarten? Elementary school? Give the kids a break! Let supply and demand have a shot at motivating the students. Of course, this opens up the whole new bag of worms that is 'other languages'. yes
2) Decrease the number of students in foreign language classrooms (15-20 max, fewer when possible). ?? how manny 3-5?




http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/10/01/EDET1FLK8J.DTL

[SinclairLondon]

The greatest hindrance to producivity in Korea is fatigue. Kids are tired, parents are tired, Korean teachers are tired. In order to get a week vacation from whiny Kkids, demanding mothers and idiotic bosses, my girlfriend must work 36 consectutive months! 36! When she started work, she was motivated, creatived and innovative. Designed several immersion classes, which brought both productive learning to the classroom and good money into the school during the summer and winters sessions. Now, she can't be bothered. Like everyone else in Korea, she just goes through the motions. [/b]

[maingman]

SinclairLondon


China? /

[jvalmer]