Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Hindsight]

stilicho25 wrote:

[stilicho25]

I used America as an example, as I am an American. I am not really saying that China is not equivelent on human rights. Domestically, our democracy is far more representative than their authoritarian ?capitalist hybrid. But I am uncomfortable with our rather aggressive track record in recent times. Iraq at least was a complete boondogle that managed to kill a couple hundred thousand people. For what exactly? You don't think we tortured captured the enemies we captured in Iraq and Afghanistan? You don't think we tortured Jose Padilla?

As for backing up my claims, I will let pres. Bush himself speak on that.


http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/106727268.html

[Hindsight]

It is odd how in discussions like this, involving questions about Korea or China, someone somehow always finds a way to blame the United States for everything.

Even Americans.

In America, Americans have the right to criticize their own government, even if that criticism is confused or inaccurate, unlike China.

George Bush, with all his flaws, did not have troops open fire on Democrats protesting in the street, and did not arrest Democratic politicians.

Do you see the difference?

But enough about America.

Show me a modern Western democracy, other than America, that has used troops to open fire on its own peacefully protesting citizens in the past 50 years or so.

Let's see now, does that include Canada, Holland, France, Spain, Italy, Norway, Luxembourg, Belgium, or even the UK?

Let's see how much history you know.

[jvalmer]

[Hindsight]

This just in from Reuters:

[Hindsight]

This just in from the Associated Press:

[bucheon bum]

Hindsight, you might have some valid points; in fact I'm sure you do. Alas your bold and enlarged type is obnoxious and I really have no interest in reading your posts. If you tone yourself down, it would be appreciated.

[Caffeinated]

From http://the-diplomat.com/china-power/2010/11/05/the-dalai-lama-effect/

[recessiontime]

http://advertising.chinasmack.com/2010/government/the-chinese-professor-ad-now-america-works-for-us.html

very funny, if it's been posted already, i apologize

[Koveras]

If anything, a censored media is probably a safeguard against 'brainwashing'.

[Hindsight]

bucheon bum wrote:

[mises]

Regarding Japanese relations with China. They should go nuclear and be done with it. WW2 is long over. Japan is a normal country.

[Hindsight]

I'm afraid that my earlier posts distracted folks from the original intent of this thread. Here's a very interesting and thorough article by Dan Levin about Chinese students in American colleges that can get it back on track, and is worth reading:

[jzrossef]

[Steelrails]

A couple of thoughts-

1)Multiculturalism does not always work and if it does work it takes time. Expecting first generation immigrants to assimilate overnight is just stupid.
1A) European American should go easy on Chinese Americans (when talking about a group/culture) moving to a new land and dealing with the locals. Forming a Chinatown is nothing compared to a Trail of Tears or Smallpox Blankets.
1B) Living here in Korea and seeing various levels of "integration and assimilation" I think the Chinese as a whole are doing about the same as everyone else.

2)Related to this is something that I think got touched on- In Modern Western, particularly American, thought there is a complete lack of scope of history. I mean most Americans I know will talk about how good things are now as if they have always have been that way and always will be. It's pretty early to make those kind of judgments.
2A) I especially have to question a person writing about how in America we've never had troops fire on crowds of people who though differently or sent armored cars and people armed with fully automatic weapons because you belonged to some cult (ala Falun Gong). People who write things like this need to read books and think for 10 seconds before they write. In the lifetime of many Americans there was Kent State and the Democratic National Convention. There were the race riots of the 60s and Rodney King. There was Waco, Ruby Ridge, and those Fundie Mormons. Prisoner treatment? Attica anyone? Are they identical, no, but they are comparable.
2B) As someone alluded to, you see a greater emphasis from more traditional societies, of any type, on success across generations. Small success today paves the way for greater success in the future. In modern culture, particularly American, it is now now now- THIS life or its pointless.

3) This is a bit unrelated but its something I've become more and more aware of. The concept of neighbors and personal failures and space is vastly different between traditional societies and middle-class to wealthy American ones in particular. The smaller households, fenced properties, driving everywhere, and so have skewed attitudes towards how imperfect people can be, what is involved with living next to someone (yes you have to put up with nonsense sometimes), being the center of attention, compromise, responsibility towards a group, and hyper-privacy. Not that this is bad, but its a new ruleset that is a response to conditions that are not there in the rest of the world and we are attempting to push it upon the world.

4) In 20 years time it may be that putting a million dollars into California would be nearly the same as putting a million dollars into China. This is the global era.

5) This is repeatedly brought up and that is "The creativity gap". I think we in the west have allowed ourselves to become complacent with this for several reasons
A) There seems to be shifts as to when creativity occurs. Before 500BC most of it was non Western, then for a millenia we had Greece and Rome and at the same time China and India. For the next 1000 years it was mostly in Asia, with a bit in Eastern Europe. Then Asia declined and Europe rose. This suggests that it is not culture but say the cycle of poverty and decadence that drives such things.
B) Being creative is not always profitable. R&D is extraordinarily expensive. Far more profitable is to let someone else design the thing, then take their design, tweak it, and mass manufacture it. Creativity is great. So is profit. Now if your country was previously a war torn wreck you aren't going to have the capital necessary to invent, especially in this day and age. How do you generate capital? Copy and produce. Copy and produce.

6) I'm a big fan of Thomas P.M. Barnett and I absolutely agree that the smartest thing America could do is to lock in China as its major partner for the next 100 years the way America was to the British, only now we are the Brits. The price? Taiwan. Cheap. And I agree that giving Taiwan the power to declare war between the two countries (which it essentially has now) is absolutely insane. We've seen how that goes in history. Political structure is far less important than economic structure.