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machoman
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Ruthdes wrote: |
| Louis VI wrote: |
I guess you're bothered with how Hyundai is said by native English speakers as well. 
The romanized spelling of Kim Il-sung invites pronunciation of "sung", which has stuck with much of the English-speaking World.
Only someone who's been in Korea a long time would be surprised that "soong" isn't how it's pronounced in English by English speakers to English speakers. |
Ok, and I wouldn't be bothered by anyone who didn't have any passing interest in Korea mispronouncing the names (though I might give them a "by the way, it's actually pronounced..."). However this is a doco ABOUT Korea. Surely it's reasonable to expect that the maker would go to the trouble to find out the correct pronunciation of the names. Especially when he could've asked any of the dozens of Koreans he interviewed. Particularly pronouncing the J as a Y. Come on now....
Also, I'm pretty sure it's only Americans (and maybe Canadians...) who pronounce Hyundai as Hundae. In Australia we say it almost the same as the proper Korean pronunciation, and yes, Hundae does sound strange to me.
You don't need to be in Korea for a long time to work this stuff out. You only need to be here precisely long enough to learn to read Hangul, and a close approximation of the characters' actual pronunciations (a few weeks maybe), and a lot becomes clear. |
+1 if someone is gonna make a documentary about, lets say, carl jung and they kept pronouncing it like JUNG instead of young, you'd lose some credibility.
and the emoticon.... those are like fighting words. so obnoxious. |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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He's not saying Soong. Listen carefully.
I'm pretty sure this 'mispronunciation' stems from the narrator's accent. Kreist even one of the North Koreans said it with a longer 'o' sound a few times.
You may as well criticize his intelligence for his pronunciation of "librey" instead of library. |
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Globutron
Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Location: England/Anyang
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Ruthdes wrote: |
| Globutron wrote: |
| You can probably find his phone number on Google. You should drop him a line and tell him he's a failure to society with a below average IQ and that he should change his ways if he ever wants to be happy in life. |
You really think it doesn't matter? Surely it casts doubt on the rest of his research if he can't even take the trouble to find out that a "J" is actually pronounced as a "J" in Korean romanisation, and not a "Y". |
Well the documentary isn't about the language, for a start.
And the documentary itself is obviously an experience thing above all. We're there to see it along with him as he goes. It's not an episode of Horizon. The show does exactly what it was meant to do, and it does it very well. So no, it doesn't matter. It can take a long time to pronounce Korean correctly.
To ask him to pronounce the name perfectly would be asking him to pronounce hangul correctly including the ㄹ and the 의 and so forth. Waste of time. |
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Ruthdes
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| crescent wrote: |
He's not saying Soong. Listen carefully.
I'm pretty sure this 'mispronunciation' stems from the narrator's accent. Kreist even one of the North Koreans said it with a longer 'o' sound a few times.
You may as well criticize his intelligence for his pronunciation of "librey" instead of library. |
I would most likely have not made any comment at all about Soong/Sung if he hadn't also misprounced Jung as Yoong. While I was commenting on Yoong, though, it seemed relevant. Also, I never criticized his intelligence, just his thoroughness (or lack of it).
| Globutron wrote: |
It can take a long time to pronounce Korean correctly.
To ask him to pronounce the name perfectly would be asking him to pronounce hangul correctly including the ㄹ and the 의 and so forth. Waste of time. |
Ok, I won't comment again about the Soong vs. Sung thing, as 어 is a difficult sound to pronounce properly, but the J/Y thing is NOT difficult. It's just sloppy documentary making/research. |
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Globutron
Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Location: England/Anyang
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe he's Mexican |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/8711895.stm
Edit:
If you have 14 min I suggest giving this a watch-
The woman was definitely pushing boundaries with her handlers, and it was funny how people finished "shopping" had to run off and hide from the cameras
Last edited by ThingsComeAround on Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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I enjoyed the 14 vids - a glimpse into the scary.
Some of the scenes reminded me of Sth Korean public school life, e.g., the karaoke visit (with the guard and the minder singing) reminded me of a public school co-teaching demonstration.
And check out the Arirang Mass Games, were they like Sports Day, or what? |
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seoulsucker
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: The Land of the Hesitant Cutoff
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Globutron wrote: |
Incredible footage. Madness.
Here's another one with a British woman who is more open to her actual feelings in front of the Norks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loyw9eqkPjU
'But I believe he's (Kim il sung) is dead'
'yes, he passed away 16 years ago'
'so you think he is a god, immortal?
'yes, he is an immortal person and eternal father of our people, we don't think he passed away'
She managed to get in *after* the cheonan sinking event... Pretty impressive.
Actually I prefer this one. It's more informative and she's much more courageous with her bluntness and openness to the inferior nation. |
She sounds like a sedated female version of Stewie from Family Guy...lisp and all. |
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thrylos
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
| thrylos wrote: |
I've asked this before, and I'll ask it again, especially after watching the Vice and BBC videos-- how is Chosun and Hankook really all that different? 6 in one hand, 1/2 dozen in the other  |
An absence of starvation and gulags in the South, along with a democratically elected government, are some of the differences. South Korea is far from perfect, but you're not making a serious argument for equivalence between the two Koreas, are you? |
I'm saying that the cultural mindset that allowed for the situation in the North and the reality that so bewildered the journalists/filmmakers is no different than the South. Yes, the society is different, but the motivation and forces that are behind the reality is no different between North and South. One is a bizzaro world of the other, but deep down is the same, as one later poster has also mentioned. Look deeper than the results and you'll see that the Gulags and reasons for starvation in the North are all widespread elements found in the South's society. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| machoman wrote: |
nice vid (the one OP posted.) i want to see a typical north koreans life though. like, are there even restaurants? convenience stores? movie theaters? i'm unclear still about how they live. why do some people have cars? are they stuck in their homes all day?
there's a subway station, i was surprised to see that for some reason. i hear there's internet there but only a few people use it.
i saw the documentary with lisa ling in it and that was pretty good too. |
Restaurants and movie theaters used to be part of everyday life, but they all closed down with the power/food shortages of the early to mid-'90s.
The subway, by all appearances, exists solely to impress foreign visitors. The people who ride it do it as their job. Foreign observers have seen them get out, leave the station, then turn around and go back down. Nothing to Envy is a fantastic book all about life in North Korea, I highly recommend it. |
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