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rooster_2006
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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 Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| IncheonTOEFL wrote: |
Exactly. Thank you.
3D workers are called "3D workers" because they work in various areas related to 3D graphics such as 3D GPU design, 3D modeling using NURBS, DirectX, and OpenGL, 3D Computer Aided Design (CAD), and other high-paying 3D fields. They are very intelligent individuals who are required to know linear algebra, discrete math, various programming languages (high-level and low-level) including x86 and x64 assembly, C++, Objective-C, etc. and also have an intimate knowledge of things such as raycasting, hardware T&L, bump mapping, hidden surface removal, etc.
3D workers learn hangul and speak better Korean than most ESLers and Mormons, because they are highly-paid professionals, often with master's degrees in computer science or information technology, with jobs related to Korea's 3D industry!
Therefore, it is little wonder that most 3D workers blow Mormon missionaries out of the water when it comes to Korean language proficiency. |
Huh...
Whatever you say, IncheonTOEFL...
Last edited by rooster_2006 on Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Dirty, Dangerous, and Demeaning jobs. I had learned this before, but had forgotten it, so had to look it up again. |
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T-dot
Joined: 16 May 2004
Location: bundang
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| rooster_2006 wrote: |
| IncheonTOEFL wrote: |
Exactly. Thank you.
3D workers are called "3D workers" because they work in various areas related to 3D graphics such as 3D GPU design, 3D modeling using NURBS, DirectX, and OpenGL, 3D Computer Aided Design (CAD), and other high-paying 3D fields. They are very intelligent individuals who are required to know linear algebra, discrete math, various programming languages (high-level and low-level) including assembly, C++, Objective-C, etc. and also have an intimate knowledge of things such as raycasting, hardware T&L, bump mapping, hidden surface removal, etc.
3D workers learn hangul and speak better Korean than most ESLers and Mormons, because they are highly-paid professionals, often with master's degrees in computer science or information technology, with jobs related to Korea's 3D industry!
Therefore, it is little wonder that most 3D workers blow Mormon missionaries out of the water when it comes to 한국어 실력. |
Huh...
Whatever you say, IncheonTOEFL... |
3D workers are people that work with graphics?
I dont know if I should be laughing or be in shock. |
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IncheonTOEFL
Joined: 05 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
| Dirty, Dangerous, and Demeaning jobs. I had learned this before, but had forgotten it, so had to look it up again. |
yup. I thought most people knew this term; but I guess not. Maybe Rooster was being serious? |
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dkn2101
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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interesting point raised about koreans who always answer you in English even though you ask them something in Korean, correctly. i've always wondered, is it (1) because they think English-speaking foreigners aren't intelligent enough to learn their language, or (2) do they believe that the Korean language is something that shouldn't be spoken by non-Koreans, or (3) do they just want to improve/practice their own English?
I used to think (2), now I think (3) ... but I'm still unsure... |
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Chet Wautlands
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| dkn2101 wrote: |
interesting point raised about koreans who always answer you in English even though you ask them something in Korean, correctly. i've always wondered, is it (1) because they think English-speaking foreigners aren't intelligent enough to learn their language, or (2) do they believe that the Korean language is something that shouldn't be spoken by non-Koreans, or (3) do they just want to improve/practice their own English?
I used to think (2), now I think (3) ... but I'm still unsure... |
None of those.
Your perfect Korean generally isn't as perfect as you think. If they switched the conversation to full Korean, would you really be able to follow it? It's not easy. |
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dkn2101
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Chet Wautlands wrote: |
| dkn2101 wrote: |
interesting point raised about koreans who always answer you in English even though you ask them something in Korean, correctly. i've always wondered, is it (1) because they think English-speaking foreigners aren't intelligent enough to learn their language, or (2) do they believe that the Korean language is something that shouldn't be spoken by non-Koreans, or (3) do they just want to improve/practice their own English?
I used to think (2), now I think (3) ... but I'm still unsure... |
None of those.
Your perfect Korean generally isn't as perfect as you think. If they switched the conversation to full Korean, would you really be able to follow it? It's not easy. |
I wasn't saying anything about 'perfect Korean.' But if we're not talking about some obscure topic, I can conduct my conversations and follow them without much trouble. I've also been here long enough to know when my Korean is more or less correct and when it's totally off-base. The reason I asked this question to begin with was in response to Tomato's post earlier where a Korean was declaring that they would only respond in English when foreigners spoke to them in Korean.
I think in general though, Korean's don't really know how to 'dumb down' their Korean for non-native speakers, since all non-foreigners here pretty much speak perfect Korean. Contrast that to America where we deal with immigrants all the time (at least in CA/NYC, where I'm from) who butcher English to the max but still get their meaning across, and can adjust our word choice and speed accordingly. Korean's haven't had to deal with that kind of thing yet as much, and so you specifically have to tell them 더천천히 말해줘 or something to that end if you want them to adjust. Most of the time though, i've found they'll just reply in English. Maybe under the assumption that you've just memorized a certain phrase and can't comprehend the response? I really don't know why but I've entertained several reasons. My current favorites are, they just want to practice their english or, they just feel weird speaking to someone in Korean who doesn't look Korean.
During my super-bitter phase, I actually convinced myself that they carried some innate belief that 'only Korean people should speak Korean' ... that it was almost wrong for things to be otherwise. But I think i've dismissed this nonsense by now. |
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Quack Addict
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| Sector7G wrote: |
| Skippy wrote: |
The only real times I have seen a waygook English teacher really learn Korean is for sex/love. The basic drive for sex will prompt a guy who is in a country of Korean women to learn Korean pretty quickly will happen. But the caveat is if your pool of women is ones you pick up in waygook bars who will likely speak some English then the drive goes down. |
Sounds like you're still saying a guy would learn faster in the missionary position.  |
Yeah, I was wondering what English Teacher position was? Is it some kind of domineering role-play? |
It's where you bend over and the Koreans try to stick it to you! |
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T-Bone
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: Yongin
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| dkn2101 wrote: |
interesting point raised about koreans who always answer you in English even though you ask them something in Korean, correctly. i've always wondered, is it (1) because they think English-speaking foreigners aren't intelligent enough to learn their language, or (2) do they believe that the Korean language is something that shouldn't be spoken by non-Koreans, or (3) do they just want to improve/practice their own English?
I used to think (2), now I think (3) ... but I'm still unsure... |
I always just assumed they were trying to be helpful. I have poor Korean skills myself and I have always appreciated the help. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:27 am Post subject: |
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They're only helping you in the short run, though.
They're hurting you in the long run.
Suppose you went to the gym and a person stronger than you offered to lift all the weights for you.
Would that help you in the long run?
Suppose you went to school and a person smarter than you offered to do all your homework.
Would that help you in the long run?
Suppose you played an instrumental solo in a student recital and a more experienced musician in the audience stamped up to the stage, wrestled the instrument from your hand, and played the solo himself.
Would that help you in the long run? |
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rooster_2006
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
They're only helping you in the short run, though.
They're hurting you in the long run.
Suppose you went to the gym and a person stronger than you offered to lift all the weights for you.
Would that help you in the long run?
Suppose you went to school and a person smarter than you offered to do all your homework.
Would that help you in the long run?
Suppose you played an instrumental solo in a student recital and a more experienced musician in the audience stamped up to the stage, wrestled the instrument from your hand, and played the solo himself.
Would that help you in the long run? |
I like your analogies.
Unfortunately, most foreigners in Korea (at least the Caucasian ones) are ridiculously short-sighted and only thinking about getting through this year. They aren't thinking about the long term (long-term language skills, career progression, long-term visas, etc.). They just want pleasure HERE and NOW.
For long-termers like you and I (well, I was a long-termer, but my five years in Korea are over), your logic makes a great deal of sense and your analogies are very good.
Unfortunately, most short-term, one- or two-year foreigners here will never understand why we care about long-term things like learning the language, securing medium- and long-term visas, or moving up from being a hagwon instructor to a better position. It's beyond them. They're baffled.
For example, in your analogy about the big, strong guy offering to lift your weights for you, well, if you're a serious bodybuilder, then yes, that's bad. But if you're only going to be in the gym for the next ten minutes and then planning to leave forever and never come back after that, then I suppose his help would be welcome.
In my opinion, the biggest enemy to foreigners succeeding in Korea is other foreigners. As Debito Arudou puts it, many foreigners have a self-defeating, "snake-eating-its-tail mentality." |
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T-Bone
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: Yongin
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Wow. You guys certainly are hyperbolic.
All I was saying is that it seems to me that the Koreans that speak to you in English are trying to be helpful. Does that help your own second language acquisition? No, it doesn't. Are they thinking about your second language acquisition goals? No, they are trying to help in the short term. They have good intentions.
I certainly don't think people speaking English to you or talking to foreigners hurts you as much as you two have postulated. If you are motivated to learn Korean, you will do it regardless of "English pollution." It's really not as dramatic as you have speculated. |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
| Dirty, Dangerous, and Demeaning jobs. I had learned this before, but had forgotten it, so had to look it up again. |
I had always thought it meant dirty, dangerous and difficult, however "demeaning" I think is much more accurate in its depiction. |
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rooster_2006
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| olsanairbase wrote: |
| Sector7G wrote: |
| Dirty, Dangerous, and Demeaning jobs. I had learned this before, but had forgotten it, so had to look it up again. |
I had always thought it meant dirty, dangerous and difficult, however "demeaning" I think is much more accurate in its depiction. |
I've heard both, but I would have to agree, "demeaning" is a better description that differentiates 3D work from other kinds of work.
If the last 'D' is "difficult," then I guess chasing Xia Ke-jie around the classroom while he breaks fans and hits other students would be a "3D job."  |
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rooster_2006
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| T-Bone wrote: |
Wow. You guys certainly are hyperbolic.
All I was saying is that it seems to me that the Koreans that speak to you in English are trying to be helpful. Does that help your own second language acquisition? No, it doesn't. Are they thinking about your second language acquisition goals? No, they are trying to help in the short term. They have good intentions.
I certainly don't think people speaking English to you or talking to foreigners hurts you as much as you two have postulated. If you are motivated to learn Korean, you will do it regardless of "English pollution." It's really not as dramatic as you have speculated. |
When I can tell that the intent is just to be helpful, I usually tolerate it. Except that a lot of the time, the intent is not to help me.
First of all, it's often very arrogant. Quite often the tone of voice and the context the Korean uses says, loud and clear, "I have limited tolerance for your hobby-level Korean. Let's do away with this pathetic game and just speak English. You foreigners will never understand Korea or Korean." I notice this especially when talking with Korean-Americans and women in their late 20s or early 30s who have studied abroad. "I don't want to waste my time with your trivial Korean" is the tone that drips off their voices. It's very insulting and puts me in a bad mood. My Korean is not trivial or "some hobby" -- I graduated from Yonsei University Korean Language Institute, and I take pride in my Korean skills.
Second of all, when I'm in Korea, I should not be required to speak English unless it is for my job. Why? Because the official language of Korea is Korean, not English.
Third, imagine if I replied in Korean to every single Korean-American I met in Annandale, New York, or Los Angeles. Somehow I don't think I'd get a friendly response every single time. So why is the reverse okay?
I realize this problem does not affect the vast majority of Caucasian foreigners in Korea, but if you become proficient in Korean as both Tomato and I have, yes, this will get under your skin at times, as well. |
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