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Hakwans: Why the apathy among the parents?
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Netz



Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Location: a parallel universe where people and places seem to be the exact opposite of "normal"

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we go, and I don't know why I'm bothering, except for the fact that your attiude annoys me to no end.


PatrickGHBusan wrote:
The thing is here that you and I are saying the same thing on many levels....


No.

We aren't

Not even close.

In fact, I'm quite sure that you still have NO idea what I'm talking about, and am actually feeling a little patronized by your attempts at empathy.


PatrickGHBusan wrote:
you seem to care about acceptance or lack thereof on a national scale (laws, status, what a random Korean thinks of you when he sees you)


BINGO!

This is the JOB forum, and the OPs experience with what may or not be racism, but is most certainly a cultural misunderstanding on some level, by someone, was the topic of discussion.

And generally speaking, the de facto culprit is NOT the Korean. It's because, and I know you must have heard this one, "You don't understand Korean culture".

It's the ultimate race card in Korea.

Now, sometimes it is applied appropriately, but more often than not, it's nothing more than a flimsy excuse by the Koreans to justify, what can simply be called, ineptitude, ignorance, stupidity, immaturity, or just plain old bad behavior.

Moreover, I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard a Korean say, in English, or Korean, "I'm sorry, I WAS WRONG". It just doesn't happen here. Blame is the name of the game, and again, I would assume that you would have had firsthand experience with this in your multitude of years and business dealings here. Then again, you seem to be blessed with the good fortune to avoid all the common banalities and trivialities that plague the ordinary visitor to this country. Again, congratulations on your luck.

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
while I do not care about this random Koreans thoughts of me and kind of decided that in Korea my status was foreign resident. That was no big deal to me because I had a full social life in Korea with family and friends.


So, you chose to overlook, ignore, and deny the existence of all the things that I'm talking about, and therefore they don't exist.

Wow, maybe you did adapt to this culture more deeply than I had originally believed. You seem to have picked up the Korean ability to completely ignore, facts, logic, and plain old reality, and replace it with whatever belief systems suits your fancy. Again, nice job on the assimilation.

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
"and your attempt to be provocative).)"


Believe me, if I were trying to be provocative, you would have known it. I was merely responding to your instigative posts, and there are many by the way.

So, if you think I held off on my "apologists" comment by one post, you are sadly mistaken, because you have no idea how many of your instigative soliloquies I've had to look at (and sigh to myself) over time.

Too many, and now I'm truly done, so post away as provocatively as you wish.

Cool
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Here we go, and I don't know why I'm bothering, except for the fact that your attiude annoys me to no end.


Stopped reading right there as the rest becomes irrelevant and waste of time.
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jfromtheway



Joined: 20 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent posts, Netz. And very good writing within them. I haven't been here long, but I've spent time in Korea before my present stay, and there is a lot to be said about the points you brought up, as well as the superficiality regarding the way things are often done here. Teaching is a temporary, future living expense gig for me, but I find these cultural things to be fascinating, as much as some attempt to shrug them off.

Wednesday conversation with my hagwon's "head teacher," when we were the only two people in the room (and I get along well with her):
Jfromtheway: Do you speak any other languages?
Her: I spent a year in Mexico and I speak Spanish.
Jfromtheway: Ah, you speak Spanish? *In Spanish*
Her: Yes, I speak Spanish. *In English*
Jfromtheway: Where did you live in Mexico? How well do you speak Spanish? We should speak Spanish together. *In Spanish*
Her: A little. *In English*
She then puts her finger up, runs out of the room while I stand there alone processing the previous attempted conversation, pokes her head in twenty seconds later and says, "can I ask, how old you are?" I give her my mid-late 20s age, she says, "OOO-Uhh, thank God," grabs her chest, sighs, then runs back out of the room. There's something to this stuff. I partially understand the "things are just different, accept it" argument, but the sociological break-down has much more depth and is always worth talking about, even if it gets done up on this forum more than some would like.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solid posts Mr.PatrickGHBusan. Unfortunately some will never get it while most will pretend not to get it. I'm always mystified why people think they need to feel accepted by every Lee, Kim and Park. They are not accepted by every Tom, Dick and Harry back home so why this obsessive need to feel accepted here? I suspect that it's not so much the need to feel accepted as it is a handy stick to bash Korea with...but that's another post for another thread.

And for the other posters...as long as you are accepted by family and friends (no matter where you are)...isn't that all what really matters?

Surely if one needs to vent one can do so without making sweeping generalizations that are just plain wrong and verging on xenophobia to boot.
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Draz



Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
They are not accepted by every Tom, Dick and Harry back home


They aren't? When's the last time you were home, pardner? Might be time for a reality check.

The thing is, at least in my experience, YOU ARE accepted by most people in other countries. If you make eye contact with a stranger, they are far more likely to smile than look hostile. Not in Korea.

"My family and friends love me" fine whatever, but I'm sick of putting my blinders on every time I leave the house and ignoring everyone else because it's all just so damn unpleasant. Man, I hate this place.
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minos



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korean parents do want to meet you if your teaching higher end classes or private study rooms. Parents of older kids have much higher expectations.

However, I think it's Korean culture to talk around people and tell the boss directly unlike the west where we just chew out the person you have a problem with and later go to the boss if things don't work out.

I don't think Korean teachers get talked to directly unless they're in charge of dealing with parents.
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morrisonhotel



Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Draz wrote:


The thing is, at least in my experience, YOU ARE accepted by most people in other countries. If you make eye contact with a stranger, they are far more likely to smile than look hostile. Not in Korea.


Foreigners are treated badly at home (and in every other country) so your point has no validity.


I am, of course, being facetious.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Draz wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
They are not accepted by every Tom, Dick and Harry back home


They aren't? When's the last time you were home, pardner? Might be time for a reality check.

The thing is, at least in my experience, YOU ARE accepted by most people in other countries.


Nonsense. Most people in other countries don't even know you exist (including YOUR home country). Yes if you go to a poorer country (Thailand, the Philippines) they are more likely to smile at you and be "nice". But they aren't accepting you as a person but as an ATM.

As for back home let's say you are going for a job interview. You think a single one of the other applicants there "accept" your presence? Or are they more likely to think "Another person going after the same job. Darn it!" People back home (unless they know you) don't accept you, they ignore you. Same as here. Yes occasionally you get the odd racist making some trouble...but guess what? That happens back home as well...except you are in the majority there so you don't notice as much.

And your post proves it.
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lichtarbeiter



Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hagweon (not hakwan...


As I'm sure you're aware, Korean words often have more than one typical transcription when Romanized (Busan/Pusan, Incheon/Inchŏn/Inchun). To correct someone's transcription of a Korean word seems kind of petty to me. But since you brought it up, "hagweon" is not the most standard spelling; "hagwon" is. Under Revised Romanization, ㅓ is transcribed as "eo" except when it follows a /w/ onset. This is probably because unlike the minimal pairs 고 and 거 where the latter needs to transcribed as as "geo" in order to contrast it from the former, the syllable 워 has no equivalent minimal pair - that is, ㅗ cannot follow a /w/ sound. So 워 is simply transcribed as /wo/.


Quote:
...and Korean loanwords in English aren't usually pluralized)


That's because Korean loanwords in English aren't usually countable nouns. But some are (as that other poster mentioned, "noraebangs", "ajossis", "ajummas", and finally, yes, "hagwons"). I've never seen "hagwon" take a zero-morpheme in plural form.

Quote:
It's the same idea how Japanese loanwords in English don't get any pluralization.


Kimonos... futons...
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