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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| And we can see this in the type of comments that crop up everyday on Dave's. I couldn't imagine doing this job day in and day out if it wasn't something I wanted to do. |
Me neither, but the TEFL system in Korea is totally designed for people with this attitude. As has been said many times on here, you get what you pay for. A guy who runs a runs a fast food restuarant would hope for someone who turns up on time, is reasonably hygenic and can follow simple instructions, so why should a school that asks for people with no experience or qualifications demand anything more? Lots of people on here frequently say they have no other career options at the moment in their home countries and it is sad that they have to come here to survive just as working in a packing factory might be sad. But needs must and maybe we should be more sympathetic |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Korea is a great place if you just want the money, you can save good money here. Sure even the entry level public sector admin jobs back home paid more than an average ESL job, however, the saving potential is just not the same.
After a year here I will have enough money to fund myself through internships or low paid entry level work that as an impoverished recent grad was out of my reach. Plus a year in a foreign country is fun.
As for the way of life, there really isn't a debate if your goal is purely about 'living life' then Korea ranks pretty low in all of Asia. That's just the truth. Just as if you wanted to spend a year in Europe purely to enjoy life then I would put my dear old blighty pretty low down on the list. |
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marsavalanche
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Location: where pretty lies perish
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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wait people are here for reasons other than the money? korean food is the worst in asia.
and yes, the losers wearing a hanbok out in public do exist.
Ive traveled around asia and Korea is the last country Id recommend to travelers. japan, china, vietnam, when any one of these countries offer more money im gone.
I love being an english teacher, I also dont see a problem with choosing the country that offers the best payout. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| marsavalanche wrote: |
wait people are here for reasons other than the money? korean food is the worst in asia.
and yes, the losers wearing a hanbok out in public do exist.
Ive traveled around asia and Korea is the last country Id recommend to travelers. japan, china, vietnam, when any one of these countries offer more money im gone.
I love being an english teacher, I also dont see a problem with choosing the country that offers the best payout. |
In regards to travel, I would also note that while Korea is basically the bottom of the barrel in terms of travel (in large part because of the food), the day to day quality of life here is better than you might find in some destinations. For example, I love Bali, but I much prefer living here to living there. |
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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| But being a ESL teacher for the sole reason that one has no other career options...it's kinda of sad. |
Yes, it really is.
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| Plus it doesn't make for a satisfactory lifestyle...doing something that you are forced to do because one has no other choices. |
Well, I can't really argue with you here either. It isn't enormously satisfying, although I do like some of my kids and we have fun sometimes. Plus I'm getting to see a bunch of things that I otherwise wouldn't have.
But look, I think you guys are missing my point. IF I could work doing what I wanted to, I WOULD. When, as in my profession, there are about 100 applicants for EVERY job, and the public agencies that hire people like me are shriveling away from lack of funding, there isn't very much I can do about it, is there? If I could go back in time and tell my younger self to make a different choice, don't you think I would?
But it's too late for that now. I, after years of agonizing, have a plan at least. I won't be staying here for the next 10 years doing this work. TUM, if you love it then good for you. If it means that much to you then you're lucky to find that. I had something like that once, years ago, too. Maybe someday I will get it back.
Korea is by no means the worst place to be. I said it wasn't top of the heap, not that it was the bottom. OTOH, I refuse to play the ridiculous game of falling over myself praising its 'culture' and accomplishments to the stars. I mean really. It's not particularly impressive on a regional scale if you're being fair. And its cities are remarkably mediocre by Asian standards, including those of countries considerably poorer than it is. But I will say its trains are world-class.
As long as I keep my school and students happy, what difference does it make what my motivation is? |
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marsavalanche
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Location: where pretty lies perish
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:52 am Post subject: |
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korean cities suck. same buildings, same pc rooms, same rude ass ajummas boxing you out on the platform as the car approaches like dikembe mutombo going for a rebound.
i will admit their airport/transportation system is top notch. but then again that's not saying much coming from america.
in la you can get carne asada. nyc has koronets the most godly pizza ever created (some idiot on here from NYC actually praises pizza school--my how are standards have fallen for some of us). chicago has hot dogs, and in philly jims > pats > genos and screw John Kerry for asking for swiss on his cheesesteak. don't even get me started on the food in vietnam, japan, or hong kongs ability to rival Americans with foods we thought we could only enjoy IN america.
korean food sucks (and please if you're going to contest that at least have tried asian cuisines not served with fortune cookies on top of the bill). the only westerns i've met that love korean food have little to no experience outside of Korea and flip a wannabe korean switch around korean friends and say things like "파이팅" in public and talk about how Korean air is the greatest airline in the world (ROFL). |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| marsavalanche wrote: |
wand yes, the losers wearing a hanbok out in public do exist.
t. |
Pics? |
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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| owenthebulldog wrote: |
Wow, thanks for all the responses. Very informative stuff.
Sorry I wasnt more clear in my initial post. I'm coming to south korea for a few reasons, and I am certainly open to the possibility of hanging out for a while. I'm going to be writing a book while I'm over there, and I absolutely love working with children.
I graduated about 5 years ago with a concentration in intellectual property law from a top tier school. I've passed the patent bar, have some big league professional experience, and am well aware, that financially, moving to korea and teaching in a hagwon isn't prudent for a certain someone chiefly concerned with a certain something.
I decided to bail on the legal career recently. What can I say, I got bored. Working in a korean law firm is of no interest. Money doesnt drive me, but I certainly dont mind gettin paid. I have a knack for teaching, and a university position is something I am slightly interested in, even if it means teaching US law.
Mainly, Im coming to korea for the culture and the experience, kinda like an adventure. I love the US, but the world is big, and little me wants to get around and do some things not just for money. Teaching is something I enjoy and am connected with(i am certified to teach high school over here), and I plan on making the most of it, whatever it happens to be. I think, in terms of what I want, that doing one year ESL is the move to make, and then if I feel so moved, to see what's out there during and/or after that one year period in the university setting.
In terms of long term career goals, its all about "the book"!! Which has nothing to do with law, or teaching english, haha.
Thank you all for taking the time to respond. Peace guys,
sincerely,
owenthebulldog |
My parents were also lawyers who spent some time teaching abroad, and I taught in a SKY language institute as well, so I'll throw in my two cents.
You can almost undoubtedly get some sort of decent university gig. When you apply, make sure it's clear that your degree is a doctorate, because a lot of Koreans get undergrad law degrees. If I were you, I'd look for somewhere that requests "Business English" or the like; I've even seen some that specifically ask for JD's, of which the supply is probably fairly limited. These positions probably require fewer hours and/or have better pay than the typical unigwon gig..if you're hoping to have free time for your other endeavors, I would definitely suggest a uni over a kids' hagwon. Even with your degree, they'd probably look for some sort of teaching experience though.
What I would do in your shoes though is look for actual law school faculty positions. Korean universities are switching over to the American system, so there's bound to be demand for professors. This would probably be a lot easier to land if you have any sort of experience in American law schools - even a semester as an adjunct would be looked upon favorably I'm sure, so maybe if you have time before heading to Korea try looking into that. |
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maladict23
Joined: 17 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| As for me I am saying that if one is in a profession for the money that teaching is not such a profession. |
Actually I'm not sure what this means. To be honest it doesn't read right to me.
People choose a job because they want, or need money to survive. Being an ESL teacher might be the best way to go about this for certain people. |
Sure if they want to be.
But being a ESL teacher for the sole reason that one has no other career options...it's kinda of sad. Plus it doesn't make for a satisfactory lifestyle...doing something that you are forced to do because one has no other choices.
And we can see this in the type of comments that crop up everyday on Dave's. I couldn't imagine doing this job day in and day out if it wasn't something I wanted to do. |
It's actually a sign of the times of the economy in the West. If there are no jobs back home, then being an ESL pays the bills.
And honestly every year spent in Korea makes people more unemployable back home. People who have done 5 or even 10 years have stood still in their career path. We are a new generation of people stuck in a job that is easy to get, but offers no advancement and no pay rise. |
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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| every year spent in Korea makes people more unemployable back home. |
No kidding. I mean, what skills does this work really offer? It doesn't even help you be a teacher in your home country, assuming you could even stand the prospect after years of ESL. And saying you've been living abroad can actually hurt you if employers think you've been lounging on some beach somewhere avoiding 'real work.'
I think you have to have a system or a plan for what you're getting from this and what you will do next, or else you get trapped--you don't want to do this anymore but the barriers to everything else become terrifying. |
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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
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| every year spent in Korea makes people more unemployable back home. |
No kidding. I mean, what skills does this work really offer?
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You could say the same about college - it's not so much about the skills (unless you want to be a career teacher), but about maturing and the life experience. Its also a great way to meet new people and understand a different culture...as an employer, I'd prefer someone who had spent a year or two teaching abroad than someone right out of college, because they are (hopefully) more mature, have experience with holding a job, and probably need less hand-holding. If you learn Korean to the level that it's attractive to an employer, so much the better, and at the least it will show you're dedicated. |
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maladict23
Joined: 17 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| nate1983 wrote: |
| Modernist wrote: |
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| every year spent in Korea makes people more unemployable back home. |
No kidding. I mean, what skills does this work really offer?
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You could say the same about college - it's not so much about the skills (unless you want to be a career teacher), but about maturing and the life experience. Its also a great way to meet new people and understand a different culture...as an employer, I'd prefer someone who had spent a year or two teaching abroad than someone right out of college, because they are (hopefully) more mature, have experience with holding a job, and probably need less hand-holding. If you learn Korean to the level that it's attractive to an employer, so much the better, and at the least it will show you're dedicated. |
Without doubt a year here looks reasonable on the cv. Any more than that and you are kidding yourself. Anyone who has booked in 3 or more years are making life really hard for themselves for when they take the decision to go back home. If you have been here for 10 years you are fucked. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| maladict23 wrote: |
| nate1983 wrote: |
| Modernist wrote: |
| Quote: |
| every year spent in Korea makes people more unemployable back home. |
No kidding. I mean, what skills does this work really offer?
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You could say the same about college - it's not so much about the skills (unless you want to be a career teacher), but about maturing and the life experience. Its also a great way to meet new people and understand a different culture...as an employer, I'd prefer someone who had spent a year or two teaching abroad than someone right out of college, because they are (hopefully) more mature, have experience with holding a job, and probably need less hand-holding. If you learn Korean to the level that it's attractive to an employer, so much the better, and at the least it will show you're dedicated. |
Without doubt a year here looks reasonable on the cv. Any more than that and you are kidding yourself. Anyone who has booked in 3 or more years are making life really hard for themselves for when they take the decision to go back home. If you have been here for 10 years you are fucked. |
And what if you don't plan to go home? If someone has been here for 10 years or more...it is very likely that they are here for the long-term and have little or no interest in returning home. |
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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| If you have been here for 10 years you are fucked. |
Truer words are rarely spoken on this board.
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| it is very likely that they are here for the long-term and have little or no interest in returning home. |
Which came first, though? Isn't it likely that the 'decision' to stay, far from being freely made, becomes more of an after-the-fact rationalization of the obvious reality that returning to one's native country and having the same lifestyle is impossible? That all that time and effort spent 'educating' Korean children counts for less than nothing in a Western job market?
It's too easy to fall into that trap and convince everyone, especially yourself, that this is really what you want and you are perfectly happy doing it for a career, even when deep down you know that's not true and with an open path you never would have made this choice.
Few people actually want to be teachers [in-the-trenches FT teachers, not professors or researchers or PT tutors or some other kinda-sorta thing]. Even fewer actually want to live as permanent expats [especially in a society as closed and xenophobic as Korea]. Maybe you are both, TUM. How many others do you truly think there are out there? |
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marsavalanche
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Location: where pretty lies perish
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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I don't plan on ever going back home.
But to the people saying we're "f'ed" if we're here 10+ years, I don't necessarily agree with that.
There are people I've seen on these forums that have landed a decent job back in their home country. However KEEP IN MIND these same people didn't just get a BA and a hagwon gig for 8 years. They continued getting an education and credentials (MA, CELTA, etc.) which has allowed them to build a decent resume to take back home. Stop judging because YOU think we're all lazy teachers who hangout at Itaewon every weekend and don't have a plan B in life. |
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