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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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 Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Firearcher wrote: |
I am in the same position. I love the kids at my school and the staff is generally good to work with. I have few to no complaints. But the policies at my public school are utter crap and the most crazy in all my years here. I had intended to stay but the past month have changed my mind. Contract ends - I'm outta there. The Koreans will tell you that you can talk with them if you have issues but then when you do there is ZERO empathy, sympathy and understanding. One of my co-teachers saw the expression on my face when i learned I had to desk warm all summer from 8:30-4:30 while the school is virtually empty........and she said "How is the economy in your country". Which I took as, if you don't like it here you foreigner - go home.
I like it here. I don't like my school due to non nonsensical and unnecessary policies. |
That's a bit cheeky from your co-teacher. Next semester ask him/her on Fridays if they will be in school tomorrow. If they say yes and show the slightest unhappiness at that- get them back. Ask how the economy is or if they've every thought of retiring. Obviously that depends how petty you are willing to be 
My co-teacher and, from what I hear, management have both said they'd prefer the foreign teachers to stay more than one year, and also that they like me more than the last two NETs. Words are cheap though. If they expect the foreigners to keep resigning at the end of the year they should probably think about giving leniency with stuff like deskwarming. Yes it's in the contract, but who benefits from it? I agree with the posters who've said deskwarming (or rather, lack of it) should be used as a reward system |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
| rainism wrote: |
if you're in after 1 pm during camp, then you have no one to blame except yourself. Camp clauses I think are standard in all ps contacts and I'm fairly sure that they state 20 hours.
most schools allow their nets to go home once camp hour are finished, the contract isn't specific on this. If you're staying the full day, you're re simply getting reamed.
quit now. for that very reason. I probably would. |
I'll have a look at my contract, thanks. To be honest I've only heard from my coteacher that I'm in all day during camp and she isn't the most reliable. She probably thought I was asking a completely different question if past conversations are anything to go by
I certainly wouldn't quit over this. I really like my job otherwise and haven't ran into any problems with the management yet
* Okay I just looked at my contract and all it said was I have to spend at least 20 classroom hours per week for two weeks during summer and winter holidays for camp. Nothing else. In that case presumably they are just normal school vacation days that I'm expected to spend at school, 9 til 5  |
yes. that's all the contract says. My reaction was based on what I knew of others but it's not as if though I did a big survey. It was simply an assumption based on limited sample size. I think "most" teachers, in gepik at least, once they fulfill their camp duties and hours, are not made to stay in school and deskwarm ON TOP of camps.
However, if you have a super anal retentive school and administration I could see how it could be interpreted that way. after all, on a "normal" work day, you don't teach all periods either, but deskwarm/prepare the rest of the time. It's just the luck of the draw. Some schools make you sign in and out each time you leave the campus. One teacher I just met had her school charge her a vacation day, or half day for her medical checkup! (I told her not to accept this under any circumstances)
if you really like your school and situation otherwise see if you can gently "negotiate" some things if they want you to stay. With some principals and vp's it'll be impossible, while others may be more amenable, but you won't have anything to negotiate "with" until/unless your renewal comes up and they want you to stay. |
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swinewho
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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EPIK hol allowance for my area:
Winter 21 days
Summer 14 days + 14 days extra if you renew.  + they rounded my hol up so I got a couple of extra days......
oh and the schools cleaner is coming to clean my apartment for me before I go on my hols (the schools paying her).......
EPIK is great, my school is better! 
There is a part in the contract, maybe at the end that says something along the lines of......
'head teacher (P) can make special allowance for a teacher who has made an outstanding contribution to the school or special effort'
which basically is super vague - but it works for me! 
Stop moaning you babies! |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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JLP (jeollanamdo Epik) contract is 7 paid days during summer and 24 or something like that in winter. If you recontract its an extra 7 days (which i take in winter anyway because i hate summer).
There is deskwarming, and there is camp. Mines a two week camp with the same 17 students for 4 lessons a day. Once camp is done, i come and sit in the teachers room until 5pm when i can go home.
And i dont really care 
I love deskwarming! it beats the hell out of prepping and teaching classes every day. Honestly, that im getting paid to do what i want to do but having the one restriction that it has to be done on these premises is about as good a job as anyone could ask for.
Sure, i arrived the exact winter they decided to change EVERYTHING, and lost all the perks that both my preds had, (paid 7 and 8 class, no deskwarming, paid camps, unwritten holidays). But it still beats the crap out of every other job i could think of. Im being paid... to do nothing... and the only barrier to boredom is the depth and limits of the internet and my own interests (like learning japanese or kicking a ball around, or taking a walk, or playing dragon age). Seriously, i get paid for this! Some people just dont know what they've got!  |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ippy wrote: |
JLP (jeollanamdo Epik) contract is 7 paid days during summer and 24 or something like that in winter. If you recontract its an extra 7 days (which i take in winter anyway because i hate summer).
There is deskwarming, and there is camp. Mines a two week camp with the same 17 students for 4 lessons a day. Once camp is done, i come and sit in the teachers room until 5pm when i can go home.
And i dont really care
I love deskwarming! it beats the hell out of prepping and teaching classes every day. Honestly, that im getting paid to do what i want to do but having the one restriction that it has to be done on these premises is about as good a job as anyone could ask for.
Sure, i arrived the exact winter they decided to change EVERYTHING, and lost all the perks that both my preds had, (paid 7 and 8 class, no deskwarming, paid camps, unwritten holidays). But it still beats the crap out of every other job i could think of. Im being paid... to do nothing... and the only barrier to boredom is the depth and limits of the internet and my own interests (like learning japanese or kicking a ball around, or taking a walk, or playing dragon age). Seriously, i get paid for this! Some people just dont know what they've got! |
I agree with practically everything you've said, and I probably won't mind deskwarming, even enjoy it- especially if I'm the only person here, but it's the pointlessness that bothers me. It feels like it's being done to spite us for some reason, because there is no rational reason for being here outside of term time. There are things I'd rather be doing, but I know it isn't the end of the world. |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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its kind of done to spite us, for sure, but its in part because we dont like things like fiefdoms and the arbitrary whims of principals deciding who gets perks and who gets crappy little hell holes.
In late 2009 they universalised the process to make it fair. Now deskwarming is the default and principals have to actively go around the BoE to offer perks. And well, almost everyone i know who used to gloat that they were still special snowflakes because they didnt have to deskwarm the summer of 2010 have recontracted and are bitching about how pointless it is that they have to deskwarm this year. Which of course i find rather funny
Obviously there are still principals that are happy to let you off, or indeed there are people who are so damn good that they got a special contract with the school which they negotiated to give themselves zero deskwarming (but possibly have other responsibilities into the bargain - and lets face it, they probably work harder than you or I in the course of a general day/lesson plan). But those are increasingly the exception.
Summer 2009 and i think not many were deskwarming (though i stand to be corrected).
Winter 2009 people not only had to deskwarm, but they also no longer got paid for camps (fairly reasonable given that if youre not on paid vacation, why do you get to jet off and force the school to pick up the tab for a teacher to cover what should be your job?)
Still some people got away with it.
Right up until this winter, when i can only assume there was a second clamp down on all the BoEs and principals who continued to operate a school as their personal kingdom. So now even the people laughing at me for being "an idiot" or a "bad teacher" because i had to deskwarm from the off, are now realizing that they werent that special, they were just lucky.
Im going to go out on a limb here, but it seems that the whole deskwarming thing is small potatoes to whats really been going on: namely greater centralization. Im pretty sure we are just one tiny drop in the ocean of all of those crazy shenanigans.
Still, can you honestly blame them? When youre seeing people naffing off to thailand at the end of the school year and refusing to do the summer camp forcing the school or boe to try and ship in teachers, well we kinda got what we deserved in the end.
Maybe there should be a clause in future contracts for the NET to take unpaid leave when school is out of session? That might put it in perspective for most people. Well, it will when BoEs start insisting that instead of coming to school and deskwarm you get to stay at home and get paid nada. It happens in japan with dispatch ALTs and thats what many of us are in effect. It might not be long until it starts happening here too! |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:48 am Post subject: |
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deskwarming isn't all that bad. I basically do everything I'd do back home.
sleep. play computer games. read.. perhaps even sneak out and work out.
take a really long lunch (like all the Koreans do)
what blows about it is essentially that you're stuck here, instead of traveling somewhere else and recharging your batteries by getting the hell out of Korea.
and by the worst is simply the fact that you still have to get up at that early time of the morning. There are also some schools that won't allow you to turn on the AC because they're trying to save "energy". I'd never deskwarm without ac in summer and heat in winter.
if unpaid leave were offered, I'd probably take it. |
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runthegauntlet
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Agreed |
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| rainism wrote: |
you're obviously at a shitty school. Enjoy
(btw. I really had no idea EPIK contracts got so crappy. Several years ago they were on par and sometimes better than gepik)
no Korean teachers deskwarm at my school. Last time I checked they had to come in 2 days over the entire holidy to fulfill their "deskwarming duties and I don't think that has changed under the new principal.
yes, it'll add up to LUCK almost anywhere. You my lad, obviously had shitty luck and you don't like it when some get luckier than others.
but your entire life is luck. You were lucky to be born, because that particular sperm hit up that particular egg.
Your intelligence, looks, height, male pattern baldness, size of your tool, etc will depend on large measures of "luck". Your marriage and your kids will depend on luck. Your health will depend on luck.
get used to it. Or you'll die a very bitter old man.
people sign similar or same contracts all the time yet they're treated differently. happens all the time in the business world and in the sports world. Perhaps only in heavily unionized places where they really think everyone is the "same" that such crap comes up.
in my particular case, I knew I had a good shot at a less banal contract interpretation because I specifically checked/double checked certain important parts in my communication with the departing NET and the phone interview with my to be handler. this was one of the "good" schools. That's why I took that particular job. Regimes have changed and contracts have gotten more banal but my situation has stayed the same. Each year I'm asked to stay and I always ask one question. My working conditions stay the same, right? The moment they do not, if I still want to be in Korea, I'll go try my "luck" somewhere else. |
You know nothing about my school other than the one or two lines I've mentioned.
Wow, how many times can I point out how you don't know what you're talking about?
Again, you've not addressed my posts. Instead you've regurgitated more of your asinine drivel and thrown up a few more inane quips about 'luck'.
At this point I just have to sit back and have a little chuckle. |
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runthegauntlet
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| rainism wrote: |
what blows about it is essentially that you're stuck here, instead of traveling somewhere else and recharging your batteries by getting the hell out of Korea.
. |
This is inaccurate as well.
If your school does let you go home instead of desk warm, you're DEFINITELY not supposed to leave the country unless it's over the course of a national holiday or your paid vacation. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| runthegauntlet wrote: |
| rainism wrote: |
what blows about it is essentially that you're stuck here, instead of traveling somewhere else and recharging your batteries by getting the hell out of Korea.
. |
This is inaccurate as well.
If your school does let you go home instead of desk warm, you're DEFINITELY not supposed to leave the country unless it's over the course of a national holiday or your paid vacation. |
actually, you can't even travel outside during a national holiday without permission/paid leave if I'm not mistaken.
not that Korean teachers don't break this rule. I know many do.
I know enough about your school based on the info you've provided
it all doesn't matter really, as next year there will easily be 50% less teachers in the PS system anyways, certainly in Gyeonggi.
and I don't really care.. will make my decision that much easier as I'm fairly "Korea'd out" after several years here. |
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runthegauntlet
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| rainism wrote: |
| runthegauntlet wrote: |
| rainism wrote: |
what blows about it is essentially that you're stuck here, instead of traveling somewhere else and recharging your batteries by getting the hell out of Korea.
. |
This is inaccurate as well.
If your school does let you go home instead of desk warm, you're DEFINITELY not supposed to leave the country unless it's over the course of a national holiday or your paid vacation. |
actually, you can't even travel outside during a national holiday without permission/paid leave if I'm not mistaken.
not that Korean teachers don't break this rule. I know many do.
I know enough about your school based on the info you've provided
it all doesn't matter really, as next year there will easily be 50% less teachers in the PS system anyways, certainly in Gyeonggi.
and I don't really care.. will make my decision that much easier as I'm fairly "Korea'd out" after several years here. |
You're probably mistaken, per your usual, but I don't feel compelled to go out on a limb about it.
And no, you don't know jack about my school.
I do find it absolutely HILARIOUS that you seem to draw a correlation between 'good' schools being those that don't follow the contract and 'bad' ones being those that do. That's basically all you've been saying this entire time, isn't it?
Yet a quick perusing of this forum will show that many people have problems with schools NOT following the contract. But they should just suck it up and appreciate their 'good' school?!
Ah, well, that doesn't work, does it?
Ooh, and yeah, GEPIK is getting some cuts, yeah?
That 'luck' thing. Quite the 'lady'.
Though you're wrong about your '50% less teachers in the PS system' line. Wow, are you actively trying to spew incorrect information or do you really just not have a clue?? |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| runthegauntlet wrote: |
| rainism wrote: |
| runthegauntlet wrote: |
| rainism wrote: |
what blows about it is essentially that you're stuck here, instead of traveling somewhere else and recharging your batteries by getting the hell out of Korea.
. |
This is inaccurate as well.
If your school does let you go home instead of desk warm, you're DEFINITELY not supposed to leave the country unless it's over the course of a national holiday or your paid vacation. |
actually, you can't even travel outside during a national holiday without permission/paid leave if I'm not mistaken.
not that Korean teachers don't break this rule. I know many do.
I know enough about your school based on the info you've provided
it all doesn't matter really, as next year there will easily be 50% less teachers in the PS system anyways, certainly in Gyeonggi.
and I don't really care.. will make my decision that much easier as I'm fairly "Korea'd out" after several years here. |
You're probably mistaken, per your usual, but I don't feel compelled to go out on a limb about it.
And know, you don't know jack about my school.
I do find it absolutely HILARIOUS that you seem to draw a correlation between 'good' schools being those that don't follow the contract and 'bad' ones being those that do. That's basically all you've been saying this entire time, isn't it?
Yet a quick perusing of this forum will show that many people have problems with schools NOT following the contract. But they should just suck it up and appreciate their 'good' school?!
Ah, well, that doesn't work, does it?
Ooh, and yeah, GEPIK is getting some cuts, yeah?
That 'luck' thing. Quite the 'lady'. |
yes she is. See what I told you about "luck"
time to pursue it elsewhere and that's fine, I was ready to do that anyways.
I think I'm actually correct, believe it or not on the no unapproved travel overseas even during national holidays (or weekends for that matter)
I've had conversations about this with Korean teachers.
you're correct, in that the classification of what's "good" and what's "bad" is hazy.
but for the purposes of this discussion, I'm classifying "good" as a school where you do less "work" for the same money. Of course schools can be very good and very bad based on different metrics.
but for the purposes of this discussion. less classes taught - good. less deskwarming = good. No signing out to leave school premises - good.
I've never had any issues about my school falling short of the contract, in fact they've always been "generous" within the contract, which is why I'm still with them after several years. I'll grant you that it's a fair point to make on your end when some schools fail to live up to many points in the contract.
it's good that you're happy at your school and I'm happy at mine for different reasons. That's the way it should work. Everyone's happy this way |
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runthegauntlet
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| rainism wrote: |
yes she is. See what I told you about "luck"
time to pursue it elsewhere and that's fine, I was ready to do that anyways.
I think I'm actually correct, believe it or not on the no unapproved travel overseas even during national holidays (or weekends for that matter)
I've had conversations about this with Korean teachers.
you're correct, in that the classification of what's "good" and what's "bad" is hazy.
but for the purposes of this discussion, I'm classifying "good" as a school where you do less "work" for the same money. Of course schools can be very good and very bad based on different metrics.
but for the purposes of this discussion. less classes taught - good. less deskwarming = good. No signing out to leave school premises - good.
I've never had any issues about my school falling short of the contract, in fact they've always been "generous" within the contract, which is why I'm still with them after several years. I'll grant you that it's a fair point to make on your end when some schools fail to live up to many points in the contract.
it's good that you're happy at your school and I'm happy at mine for different reasons. That's the way it should work. Everyone's happy this way |
No, mate. You still don't get it and frankly, seeing as how you obviously don't have a clue in regards to the majority of things you've posted on this thread, I'm wholly unsurprised.
Again, you assert that 'good' schools are those that don't follow the contract and 'bad' schools are those that do.
Oh, but of course, only when it's in your favor.
How utterly absurd.
But you keep peddling your b.s. ideal of 'luck' and what constitutes a 'good' school. I'll think back on said 'luck' while I continue working at my school for another couple of years. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Again, you assert that 'good' schools are those that don't follow the contract and 'bad' schools are those that do.
Oh, but of course, only when it's in your favor.
How utterly absurd. |
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Yes. PRECISELY! you're learning.
in my favor = good
not in my favor = very bad
to the letter contract = depends. in my case it's different because it wouldn't be what I signed up for. I knew I was signing up for a generous contract interpretation and in fact.. that's how the job was ADVERTISED! that's how it caught my attention. If that were to be rescinded, then it'd be "bad".
if you're coming in from the great unknown, then don't expect any more or any less than what the contract says. On that, we can agree on. (though the contract once again can be vague on some things)
it's like the OP said.. which you conveniently ignored. He's been at 3 or more PS, with the same contract (or very similar) with very different applications at each and every place. Luck of the draw. Lady Luck indeed.
btw.. how do you know you'll be there for several years?
remember "lady luck"??
but bear you no ill will and wish you "luck" indeed.
if I'm done next year (and like I said. I'm kind of mentally done with Korea anyways, it's only my great job that keeps me here) , my stay here will still easily probably easily match yours once you're done, and we can then both compare how "lucky" we've been. |
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runthegauntlet
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Location: the southlands.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| rainism wrote: |
| Quote: |
Again, you assert that 'good' schools are those that don't follow the contract and 'bad' schools are those that do.
Oh, but of course, only when it's in your favor.
How utterly absurd. |
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Yes. PRECISELY! you're learning.
in my favor = good
not in my favor = very bad
to the letter contract = depends. in my case it's different because it wouldn't be what I signed up for. I knew I was signing up for a generous contract interpretation and in fact.. that's how the job was ADVERTISED! that's how it caught my attention. If that were to be rescinded, then it'd be "bad".
if you're coming in from the great unknown, then don't expect any more or any less than what the contract says. On that, we can agree on. (though the contract once again can be vague on some things)
it's like the OP said.. which you conveniently ignored. He's been at 3 or more PS, with the same contract (or very similar) with very different applications at each and every place. Luck of the draw. Lady Luck indeed.
btw.. how do you know you'll be there for several years?
remember "lady luck"??
but bear you no ill will and wish you "luck" indeed.
if I'm done next year (and like I said. I'm kind of mentally done with Korea anyways, it's only my great job that keeps me here) , my stay here will still easily probably easily match yours once you're done, and we can then both compare how "lucky" we've been. |
I'm learning that you're wholly self-absorbed? Nah, I pretty much pegged that from the beginning with your continued ramblings of how it's only good if it's good for you.
On the contrary, I didn't ignore what the OP said. I pointedly addressed it. What the OP experienced is the PROBLEM. A random application of the terms of a generic contract.
Again, THAT's the problem. That you are determined that contract interpretation come down to 'luck' is asinine for numerous reasons. It seems that you feel compelled to lobby so hard for 'luck' because of YOU having things the way you would prefer.
As we all know, however, that is rarely the case for all concerned. And that, mate, is the long and short of it. Sticking to the contractual terms is the fairest way for all parties involved.
I can only imagine if your school were so lackadaisical about following other contractual terms like class hours or pay or severance. Then you'd no doubt be on here raving about how your school isn't following the contract.
Following the contract to the letter and/or implementing clauses or incentives concerning a lack of deskwarming (so there's no 'interpretation') is the best way to address this current situation where two people have the same contract yet one has to deskwarm and the other doesn't.
That's what you can't seem to grasp. You think it's fine that some people have the same contract yet some are 'lucky' and some aren't in the way their schools apply that contract. That's a very silly way to look at things. |
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