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brucefox
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
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 Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| brucefox wrote: |
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| I have yet to see any actual violence because of race. I've taught one half-Japanese girl who spent elementary in the US and spoke very little Korean who was thrown into middle school. She said she was okay, and always hung around the same group of girls. Another case was a part black male student in middle school, probably one of his grandparents. Aside from his really curly hair, slightly dark complexion and broad nose, he had no issues and again he had his group of friends. Both cases were in smaller cities. |
Does this girl have Japanese or Korean or even US passport? Some Korean bullies grade their level of racism dending on the victim's citizenship. Like as in the level of racism will be the highest if you are a Korean citizen only yet are mixed. (especially for boys because up until very recently this year, they did not have to serve in the army.. and yes..you can just imagine how many Korean kids will be resentful of that)
If the girl speaks very little Korean, then she wouldn't know how many people call her "Zok-Ba-ree" or "Won-Soong-Yee" with a perfectly good looking smile. And just you wait until next time the school holds another one of those stupid "Dokdo rally"
If no one does this at your school and you can tell because your Korean is impeccable, then good for her. She is lucky enough to end up in one of more tolerant areas. |
Like I said no issues as far as I can tell, and this city is a smaller city 100,000+. She is in high school now, so after 3 years in middle school here Korean is good, if not native like. She is a Korean citizen, her father is Korean, which probably helps in how other Koreans view her (as opposed to a foreign father). Her father is an engineer whose assignment ended after 6 years. Again, she does have a core group of friends which helps with issues. Probably what she faces in Korea was what she had to go through for her 6 years in the US.
I think smaller communities protect their own. I've hear stories from the 60's/70's were people would hide a half-Korean kid anytime a foreigner was spotted near by. Apparently they were worried the foreigner was there to take the kid away. |
Your girl is fortunate. From what I read here, looks like she's got something much better and effective than any government counseling/support programme: A group of loyal friends.
Kudos to her and her friends. |
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sofaking
Joined: 30 May 2008
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:34 am Post subject: |
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"YOUR BLOOD BOILS WITH FURY"
I tell you what, if you ever call one of my 3 daughters a "Halfie" or a "Hybrid" your boiling blood will be all over the sidewalk.
"Mixed" even pisses me off. |
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brucefox
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| sofaking wrote: |
"YOUR BLOOD BOILS WITH FURY"
I tell you what, if you ever call one of my 3 daughters a "Halfie" or a "Hybrid" your boiling blood will be all over the sidewalk.
"Mixed" even pisses me off. |
-Though your deep concern for your daughters seem to be genuine and is to be commended, You'd have to first start with about a few thousand Hapa group members in Korea and US who are proud to call ourselves halfies. It is a dimunitive. Not derogatory. But go ahead and Hit the streets after that in LA and Seattle to weed out all the non registered hapas calling each other halfies. destroy every facebook group for mixed people that promote the usage. then you can move onto other ethnicity mixes with whatever lingo they use for themselves that irk you. when enough blood is spilled. You can offer your daughters a murderous psychopath father in prison experience. A unique way to take their mind off ethnicity issues.
Last edited by brucefox on Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:39 am Post subject: |
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If korea stops bringing in English teachers and foreign brides, then the mixed race sector will become indistinguishable from Koreans within 2-3 generations as they marry back into the fold. Korea would appear to be "pure" once more.
The same would happen to eg the UK if they suddenly stopped immigration. The whole population would look white again about 5 generations from now. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
If korea stops bringing in English teachers and foreign brides, then the mixed race sector will become indistinguishable from Koreans within 2-3 generations as they marry back into the fold. Korea would appear to be "pure" once more.
The same would happen to eg the UK if they suddenly stopped immigration. The whole population would look white again about 5 generations from now. |
Ultimately isn't that the goal of most countries? Assimilation, not multiculturalism. And the society can take what they like of the new culture, like sushi. If you cut off immigration of one group, let's use the Japanese as an example, they assimilate within a few generations. Emigration out of Japan is minimal, and the countries that they go to have long established Japanese communities that are well into the assimilation process. Examples are Canada, the US and Brazil. All which used to have decent sized Japanese populations, but now are pretty much assimilated and intermarry with other groups. |
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brucefox
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| ZIFA wrote: |
If korea stops bringing in English teachers and foreign brides, then the mixed race sector will become indistinguishable from Koreans within 2-3 generations as they marry back into the fold. Korea would appear to be "pure" once more.
The same would happen to eg the UK if they suddenly stopped immigration. The whole population would look white again about 5 generations from now. |
Ultimately isn't that the goal of most countries? Assimilation, not multiculturalism. And the society can take what they like of the new culture, like sushi. If you cut off immigration of one group, let's use the Japanese as an example, they assimilate within a few generations. Emigration out of Japan is minimal, and the countries that they go to have long established Japanese communities that are well into the assimilation process. Examples are Canada, the US and Brazil. All which used to have decent sized Japanese populations, but now are pretty much assimilated and intermarry with other groups. |
Assimilation into a "seemingly" homogeneous society might be great for national unity and shared tradition. But sooner or later it might promote this "one people" and "pure blood" nonsense again. Look at Korea for example. Where so many are still proud of their pureness and are not afraid to share a piece of their mind on their views of international marriage.
I am given to understanding (by Koreans) that the majority of the following popular Korean last names originate from China: Kim, Lee, Song, Cho, Choi, Wang, Chang, Jin, Tang.. etc...
And no one knows where the ancestors of Korean freed slave names: Cheon, Bang, Jee, Chu originate from.
The only TRULY native Korean name that lasted to this day for millennia, they say, is Park... and maybe Some others I am not aware of yet.
Now I am not sure how many that treat immigrants from China and South East Asia like dirt in Korea have inherited one of the truly native Korean surnames, but these people really ought to be reflecting on their own ancestry. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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@brucefox
Are you actually ok with a non-mixed race person calling you a halfie or hybrid? Is that not what dog owners use to describe their pets?
I always thought it was a term of abuse.
In any case it�s sad to hear about those people suffering discrimination. |
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brucefox
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
@brucefox
Are you actually ok with a non-mixed race person calling you a halfie or hybrid? Is that not what dog owners use to describe their pets?
I always thought it was a term of abuse.
In any case it�s sad to hear about those people suffering discrimination. |
Kinda the same as how a German would feel if a non German called him Fritz or Kraut.
It's perfectly fine for us, but obviously not fine if you make it clear you mean it as racial slur. It's quite easy to pick up which stance the caller is taking.
You wouldn't call John Stewart an anti-semite if he called himself a K_ke would you? But if Bill O'Riley said it...
The real English terms that really make us frown would be indeed the terms used for dogs: Muts and Mongrels. These ARE documented racial slurs against ourkind.
Last edited by brucefox on Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I think in a lot of cases the intent is most important.
Not always so easy to tell though. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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@Brucefox
Thanks for clarifying.
I also think maybe another contributing factor in Korea is that nationality is linked to race, not just psychologically but also legally.
In some ways this is true for western countries, but in the UK and US at least nationality is civic and not racial. |
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brucefox
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
@Brucefox
Thanks for clarifying.
I also think maybe another contributing factor in Korea is that nationality is linked to race, not just psychologically but also legally.
In some ways this is true for western countries, but in the UK and US at least nationality is civic and not racial. |
I agree. In many countries now "nationality" is not "ethnicity"
These countries tend to do well if they embrace such identity.
Like Romans, for example, who admitted from the beginning that they were hybrids of Foreign Estruscans/Asians and Local Latins/Sabines, gave citizenship to anyone who contributed to the society.
They still have the record as the longest lasted and most successful empire, don't they?
I guess wishing this kind of result in this peninsula is a little too far fetched, but not impossible, really.
We teachers can SOMEWHAT influence the minds of the young here.
We do our part, the parents do theirs, and the government theirs... maybe, just maybe, we won't have to read so many pleas for help from our kins in Korea.
Here's another example that show even those with secure families in Korea are not safe from blatant abuse:
-I don't have time to translate this right now, so you will have to excuse just a slightly edited and improved bing translate version. but I will get to it later-
The girl who posted this is in either highschool or college:
어제 9시 30분쯤
Yesterday at about nine thirty PM
엄마 때문에 아파트 가게에
I went out to shop at the apartment grocery store
게란 두부 오댕 갓은거 사러갓는데요 ...
buy eggs tofu Odang on mom's errand.
아파트앨리배이터에서 애들이 5 명 정도 나와서 저 지하 b1층으로 대려가더라구요 ,.
About five kids came out of the elevator and dragged me to basement,.
한명이 나와서 때리길래 싸워서 이겻는대 ...
One of them started hitting me so I fought and overcame...
다른사람도 만니와서 때리더라구요 ...
Then the rest of them came and beat me up...
때리다가 게란던져서 제가 왜 이러냐고 햇는대
While getting beating up threw eggs and I demanded to know why they were doing this
글올려서 그럿대요 ...
They said it was because I ran my blog in Korean. (apparently her blog is quite popular)
양끼는 양끼랑 살아야하고 아빠가 미국인이면 미국가래요 ...
Yankees should live with Yankees and said if American father go back to America.
그리구 돈뺏고 돈이 이거박에업냐면서 때리구요...
Then they took my money and beat me up more because I didn't have more.
병원에갓더니 목 등 다리 복부,,,? 에 타박상 이구 왼쪽팔이 부러젓대요 ...
Went to hospital neck, back, legs, abdomen,,,? Bruise and broken they said left arm.
그래서 어제 경찰서가서 진술서 되잇어서 아빠가 적엇는대요 ... 저랑요 ...
So went to police station testimony done there dad wrote it ... with me ...
그애들이 늦어서 내일 음... 오늘 온대서 일단 갓는대요 ...
Those kids because late tomorrow eum... today they come so went ....
오늘와서 자기들이 잘못한거 업대요 .. 제가 봐서 그럿대요 ...
They came today and said they did nothing wrong .. They said because I stared at them ...
자기들이 기다렷다가 잘됫다 이러면서 대리고 갓으면서 ...
They were waiting for me and delighted at the chance to take me down ...
(Okay this said "They were waiting well done like that take along with ..." So i obviously had to mend this one before I jetted out of here)
근대 경찰서에서 아파서 그냥 병원와서 몸살이래요 ... 그래서 병원에 쉬고잇는데 ...
But at the police station I was sick just came to hospital fever they said ...
So resting inside the hospital ...
아빠가 일단 신고해서 ... 경찰이 전화해서
Father first reported ... Police called
괸찬냐고 하더라구요 ... 근데 엄마가 울다가 속옷가질러 집에갓는데 ...
Asked if ok ... But mom while crying went home to fetch underwear ...
제가 뭘잘못햇을까요 ... ?
What have I done wrong ... ?
메일에서 사람들이 다른사람도 볼수잇게 이글 꼭 게속 적어래서 적엇어요 ...
On Mail people told me to write this writing so that other people can see as well so I wrote ...
그리구 ... 타박상에 손이부러졋는대 왜 글쓴수잇는지 불어보셧는데요 ... 누군진 모르지만..
And ... Bruise and broken hand why can write asked ... Not sure who..
손가락으로도 적을수 잇어요 그리구 님은 손이 1개인가봐요 ? 전 2개라 적을수잇어요 오른손이랑 손가락으로요
Can write with finger and Nim have 1 hand ? I have 2 so I can write with right hand and finger
Last edited by brucefox on Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:23 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce, what's the addy of that blog? |
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brucefox
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| brucefox wrote: |
| And no one knows where the ancestors of Korean freed slave names: Cheon, Bang, Jee, Chu originate from. |
You're also forgetting 3 more in this list. Hint: one Korean singer uses it in her stage name...
Up until as recently as a generation ago, a lot of parents would refuse their son from marrying one. Might even still go on now among the families with money.
| brucefox wrote: |
| The only TRULY native Korean name that lasted to this day for millennia, they say, is Park... and maybe Some others I am not aware of yet. |
I think some Han's are another one of them.
If your Korean is good you can learn quite a bit about some of the names here:
http://www.surname.info/2080-0248/naturalize.htm
I believe the last big wave of foreigners (mostly Chinese) starting new clans was about 500 years ago. And these families will be considered Korean, kind of like how if you're family hasn't been in Japan since the Meiji restoration you're not considered Japanese by the population.
| brucefox wrote: |
| Now I am not sure how many that treat immigrants from China and South East Asia like dirt in Korea have inherited one of the truly native Korean surnames, but these people really ought to be reflecting on their own ancestry. |
It doesn't really matter anyways, they are Koreans, but a-hole Koreans. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| brucefox wrote: |
양끼는 양끼랑 살아야하고 아빠가 미국인이면 미국가래요 ...
Yankees should live with Yankees and said if American father go back to America. |
I do believe traditionally that if the father is a foreigner kids do have a much higher chance of being ostracized (hence the better experience of that Japanese-Korean girl I taught). Since it is customary for the father to take his family back to his home country. I guess it confuses many Koreans as to why a foreign father would want to keep his family from his home country and stay in Korea.
Saying that I do wonder how these rural kids with foreigner mothers will be treated when they hit the work force? They maybe stamped on more because they are poor, and from the sticks, and less so for being half-Korean. |
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