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Contract vs. Labor Law - giving notice
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ttompatz

Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: question

english puppet wrote:

I won't go into all of the details as I don't think it's relative to this thread but I've got my reasons.....

I'm considering leaving a public school job after I hit the 6 month mark in late February. Ideally, I'd like to give them 30 days notice in late January so when I leave after the 6 month mark I avoid being pursued by Kimi for not paying back the "entrance/flight" money. My worry is that they will not pay me for the last February check and will not refund a 500,000 Won deposit they took out of my check on the apt..

I'd even be willing to stay later while they got a replacement in. FWIW, I don't care at this point if I ever work in a Korean public school again....

Just wondering that the real financial risks are.

At a public school (not some dodgy after-school program) there is no risk other than being ostracized for your last month.

They won't mess with your final pay (no profit motive - it doesn't stay in their pocket - it is government money) and the government is on the hook for it (government is the employer) if you do have to go to the labor board (and they know it).

Give notice, get your deposit back and leave.

Oh, and Kimi doesn't pursue you for the inbound flight money, or for leaving early (quitting). Kimi doesn't care as long as you don't break any laws.

.

ontheway

Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:28 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

ontheway wrote:

chachee99 wrote:

I agree with ttompatz. I am going through a battle now with the laborboard and the company who terminated my contract without notice after being there for 6 months. They believed that if their contract states then it overrides the law. The labourboard officer notified them of this over the phone, however, the company still believes they are in the right because their contract says different.

Labor law says you must be given 30 days, except in certain specific circumstances. So, this is the rule and what the labor board officer told the school is correct in this case.

However, if your contract states that you must be given more than 30 days - 45 or 60 days is found in many contracts - then this trumps labor law, so you can sue for the greater period. Of course, you might have to take legal action in a civil court to win.

Likewise, labor law is completely silent on notice by a teacher to a school, so the contract is always the rule.

And it's nice to know that Ttompatz will pay the damage awards as this will make suing a guaranteed win, even against teachers who have no assets, since Ttompatz will apparently be willing to appear as a party to every such lawsuit. Even when the teacher is not available to stand in the docket, Ttom will be there to pay.

And yet...you remain the sole person who claims to have been party to teachers being sued successfully for quitting without notice...despite a ton of empirical evidence to the contrary. This would not be so bad if you could provide ANY proof whatsoever. But you do not. No links, no cases only vague statements that amount to 'it is the law because I say so'. And you mantain this stance in the face of teacher after teacher checking for themselves and finding out that no such law exists.

Provide evidence or stand proved of fear-mongering.

You have it backwards.

There is no law and no labor rule that regulates the amount of notice that a teacher must give to a school.

Therefore, the contract is the rule.

Since there is no such law or rule, it is up to you to show that there is a rule or law that regulates the notice that a teacher gives a school.

There is a labor rule that regulates the amount of notice a school must give a teacher, it sets a minimum of 30 days notice or 30 days pay. Except in certain circumstances where immediate dismissal is allowed, if the teacher is terminated immediately he must be paid for 30 days. However, if the contract requires more than 30 days, the contract is the rule.

english puppet

Joined: 04 Nov 2011

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: question

ttompatz wrote:

english puppet wrote:

Thanks ttompatz, as always - appreciated.

jrwhite82

Joined: 22 May 2010

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:57 pm Post subject:

chachee99 wrote:

why would any court put a contract over the law? Makes no sense. All contracts should be written within the federal laws. Let's say the contract states something is illegal then it goes to court, do you really think the plea of I know it's illegal but the employee agreed to it" will hold any grounds in a court of law? In short, invidiuals cannot make up their own laws and expect the legal system to defend them.

Didn't you hear about the drug mule union that took the cartel to court because they weren't paying pension and health insurance? Rolling Eyes

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:35 am Post subject:

ontheway wrote:

[You have it backwards.

There is no law and no labor rule that regulates the amount of notice that a teacher must give to a school.

Therefore, the contract is the rule.

Since there is no such law or rule, it is up to you to show that there is a rule or law that regulates the notice that a teacher gives a school.

.

No the burden of proof rests with you as you are the only one making such a claim.

jacksthirty

Joined: 30 Nov 2009

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:36 pm Post subject:

So if I follow ttom's advice, I can give quit with no notice (even though my EPIK contract states 60 days) Hand my ARC in at immigration when I leave, come back to Korea and apply for a new job? Can't the education office (or epik, or the school) complain to Immigration that I didn't give 30/60 days notice, thus reducing my chances of obtaining further employment in Korea? What happens if you only give 30 days notice and then go? Can the school file a complaint with immigration and bar me from working in Korea again?

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject:

jacksthirty wrote:

So if I follow ttom's advice, I can give quit with no notice (even though my EPIK contract states 60 days) Hand my ARC in at immigration when I leave, come back to Korea and apply for a new job? Can't the education office (or epik, or the school) complain to Immigration that I didn't give 30/60 days notice, thus reducing my chances of obtaining further employment in Korea?

What happens if you only give 30 days notice and then go? Can the school file a complaint with immigration and bar me from working in Korea again?

Immigration is not the labor board...they don't really care if you quit. Their concern is that that you follow proper immigration procedures and stayed out of trouble during your time in Korea.
The only reason they would bar you would be if you stole something or committed a crime. Quitting though is not a crime. Be advised though that this WILL harm your employment prospects IF you ever want to work for a public school again...certainly for EPIK.

jacksthirty

Joined: 30 Nov 2009

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:44 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

jacksthirty wrote:

I was just wondering what would happen if I were to give 30 days notice and quit after 30 days but the school wanting me to stay for 60 days. I'm pretty sure a letter of release would be out of the question, but if I were to quit it wouldn't be for (G)EPIK.

Mr Crowley

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Location: Suwon

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:54 pm Post subject:

I have an F5 visa, and am working for an after school program. My contractvstates that I should givev60 days notice if I quit. I plan on quitting At the end of June. Is 60 days too much of a notice, or is 30 better. I am quitting for a better position. I started this after school program in March, and it is the company's first contract with the school.

ttompatz

Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:11 am Post subject:

Mr Crowley wrote:

I have an F5 visa, and am working for an after school program. My contract states that I should give 60 days notice if I quit. I plan on quitting At the end of June. Is 60 days too much of a notice, or is 30 better. I am quitting for a better position. I started this after school program in March, and it is the company's first contract with the school.

LEGALLY you are under NO requirement to give any notice.
EMPLOYEES (as compared to subcontractors) are protected and cannot be held liable for non performance.

MORALLY - you should give them enough time to find your replacement.
With that said, this is Korea and for most A/S employers (who are subcontracted to the school) I wouldn't trust them to not screw you.

Personally, I would just wait until the day after payday and tell them I quit then walk out. They'll find another warm body quick enough and won't screw you out of 2 months wages in the process.

They won't sue (in spite of threats to do so). They would lose.

The difference between an employee and a subcontractor is that the employee is told when, where and how to do their job. They earn a wage for their time (set by the employer).
A subcontractor is not. You might tell the plumber when to come fix your toilet but whether he comes and how he fixes your toilet is up to him then he gives you the bill based on a previous estimate of the cost.

.

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