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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: The psychology behind entering your home without knockin |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
I have really begun to notice all of the "little things" some Koreans do to make themselves feel as if they have some sort of control in a situation. This is an example. |
You do realize that this statement right here is one of the things foreigners do to make themselves feel as if they have control of the situation, right?
As I said, the first example is clearly an accident that was not because you were a foreigner.
The second was questionable, I mean if someone has been given the keys to your place to do some maintenance, well may I suggest that they were given the bloody keys in the first place because they assumed you wouldn't be home! Therefore they didn't knock because, you guessed it, they assumed you wouldn't be home!
I mean if this whole "you're a foreigner so you're subhuman" thing were true, wouldn't that mean that the landlord would take whatever pains necessary to NOT show off the apartment while you were there? "Hey this apartment is currently occupied by a dirty foreigner, care to plunk down 10 million won?"
I mean, which is it? See what I mean about the disconnect and the "Angry Black Man Syndrome" that is on display here?
"Drunk guy tried to enter my apartment. Couldn't be because he's 3 sojus deep, it's because I'm foreign!!!"
Now I will agree that the whole "social awkwardness and inability to adequately communicate" because one is foreign is certainly a distinct possibility. As is the walk-in, due to an inability to articulate what is going on. But "because we're lower than bums" is not a logical explanation. As I said if you were lower than a bum, the landlord would not be showing off the apartment with you occupying it. Then they would no longer be a landlord but a slumlord. Duh. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
TUM and rails are just so completely   |
Dude, I just educated Mr. Steelrails for you. You should be happy I took that job off your hands. |
Aaaaah. Then I guess you pointed out to him for example, that whilst it may be customary to see the entrance to the apt where you put your shoes as a public area (it's not if the door is closed, but let's just pretend it is for now,) that this doesn't mean they can walk past that area into your apt uninvited, without asking or without notification wearing shoes.
Oh wait a minute, you didn't!
Or how about going off on one about drunks not having a built in radar etc when the OP clearly excused the behaviour as due to drunkeness and not that the drunks were singling out foriegners in his own post by mentioning 'they were just drunk adjoishis' thus relaying that he understood it wasn't deliberate but a mistake on account as drunkeness?
Oh, wait a minute - I see you didn't!
Wonder why that is  |
Regarding the first point you already "refuted" that so I didn't feel the need. (despite the fact that Steelrails and myenglishisno said the same thing about it).
Regarding the second point...sorry but that is a complete fabrication. The OP said nothing about 'they were just drunk adjoishis' nor did he excuse the behaviour as due to drunkenness. Go back to the first post in this thread and find where he said either thing.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| So you think a Korean workman would walk into another Korean's bedroom while they were asleep and start work in there without saying anything? |
Except I never said or even addressed that beyond agreeing with CC to change the locks.
I was addressing the claim (and the three SPECIFIC examples that were given) that this would not happen to a Korean. That's it.
But fine if you want my opinion on it it's wrong. See what CC said....my reaction would be much the same as his if someone entered my apt. unannounced while I was there. |
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sublunari
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Just yesterday my mother-in-law opened the door to our apartment without knocking and caught me sitting on the couch in my underwear (which was rather TIGHT). She looked at me, appeared somewhat nervous, but just kept on coming. I was yelping at her to go away in English and struggling to find the right words in Korean, but finally I just shouted "chamseemanyo!" and ran into the bedroom to put some clothes on. When I came back she was gone. So embarrassing. No Westerner would do that, ever.
She had been looking for my wife, who was not there. Changmoneem came back an hour or two later and knocked before entering. She has waltzed into our apartment like this several times, but it had been a few weeks since the last occurrence so I got kind of lazy with locking the door. That will not be happening again.
Her parents had also been coming over constantly, usually after eleven o'clock, to see our baby, which was ruining the baby's (very fragile) sleeping patterns and exhausting me, because on some nights I work very late and I usually just want to come home and relax, as opposed to sit on the floor and watch my in-laws play with the baby. They would just tell me to go to sleep and ignore them, but they're middle-aged Koreans, which means they are so loud it is impossible to ignore them in any context...after much complaining they stopped coming over so late.
It's a mixed blessing to live within ten minutes walking distance from such people--but one of several benefits is some of the best Korean food in the country. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| TUM and rails are just so completely |
Dude, I just educated Mr. Steelrails for you. You should be happy I took that job off your hands. |
Aaaaah. Then I guess you pointed out to him for example, that whilst it may be customary to see the entrance to the apt where you put your shoes as a public area (it's not if the door is closed, but let's just pretend it is for now,) that this doesn't mean they can walk past that area into your apt uninvited, without asking or without notification wearing shoes.
Oh wait a minute, you didn't!
Or how about going off on one about drunks not having a built in radar etc when the OP clearly excused the behaviour as due to drunkeness and not that the drunks were singling out foriegners in his own post by mentioning 'they were just drunk adjoishis' thus relaying that he understood it wasn't deliberate but a mistake on account as drunkeness?
Oh, wait a minute - I see you didn't!
Wonder why that is |
Regarding the first point you already "refuted" that so I didn't feel the need. (despite the fact that Steelrails and myenglishisno said the same thing about it).
Regarding the second point...sorry but that is a complete fabrication. The OP said nothing about 'they were just drunk adjoishis' nor did he excuse the behaviour as due to drunkenness. Go back to the first post in this thread and find where he said either thing. |
Hmmm, just re-read the op. It seems he didn't write it off and put it down to them being drunk. I guess I just assumed he did as that's what any reasonable person would do and even I find it bizzare that you would put it down to you being a foriegner lol, sometimes I give people the benefit of the doubt too much because I find it hard to fathom a world where they don't have it |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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as an odd comparison, I used to live in what we called the 'chicken coops' back home for a bit. Basically, identical rows of housing project units. Low income. High crime. Shitty place.
If we ever left our door open/unlocked, there'd be a good chance of somebody wandering in. I remember getting pizza one day, setting it on the table, coming back a few minutes later, only to find a few slices missing - with no one else in the house eating O.o
Calgary, Canada. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| So you think a Korean workman would walk into another Korean's bedroom while they were asleep and start work in there without saying anything? |
Yes, it happens man. Koreans don't have the same sense of personal boundaries. Especially old people. Nobody ever closes the door either. I've seen old people change in front of other people. Parents have their kid pee in bottle in public. Not knocking is nothing.
Plenty of Koreans, especially single women, are careful to lock their doors and make sure who's at the door before answering because some people will try to barge in. My family is always careful because we've had some experiences with cult members trying to shove their way in. There were also times somebody would try to open our door at night.
Last edited by fermentation on Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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I always put the security bar on when I am home, but that doesn't stop some people.
Two years ago I was in my apartment. I'd finished work and gone home and decided to take a shower. As soon as I turned the water off, I heard a strange rattling sound. I wrapped a towel around my waist and went to investigate. The door was ajar (the few inches the security bar allows it to open) and someone had stuck his arm through and was trying to unlatch it.
I rushed forward intending to unleash the fury of Hades upon the fool's head. But he heard me coming and with a squeal of fear, removed his arm and fled to and down the stairwell. I would have pursued him but many of my students live in the same apartment complex as me.
Thus I feared it would physiologically scar them to see a Korean male being pursued by their foreign teacher clad only in a towel and who was shouting "Wait! Come back here!"
That's how rumors get started...  |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, you guys have inspired me. Here's a unit I'l teach next week on this. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: The psychology behind entering your home without knockin |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
I have really begun to notice all of the "little things" some Koreans do to make themselves feel as if they have some sort of control in a situation. This is an example. |
You do realize that this statement right here is one of the things foreigners do to make themselves feel as if they have control of the situation, right?
As I said, the first example is clearly an accident that was not because you were a foreigner.
The second was questionable, I mean if someone has been given the keys to your place to do some maintenance, well may I suggest that they were given the bloody keys in the first place because they assumed you wouldn't be home! Therefore they didn't knock because, you guessed it, they assumed you wouldn't be home!
I mean if this whole "you're a foreigner so you're subhuman" thing were true, wouldn't that mean that the landlord would take whatever pains necessary to NOT show off the apartment while you were there? "Hey this apartment is currently occupied by a dirty foreigner, care to plunk down 10 million won?"
I mean, which is it? See what I mean about the disconnect and the "Angry Black Man Syndrome" that is on display here?
"Drunk guy tried to enter my apartment. Couldn't be because he's 3 sojus deep, it's because I'm foreign!!!"
Now I will agree that the whole "social awkwardness and inability to adequately communicate" because one is foreign is certainly a distinct possibility. As is the walk-in, due to an inability to articulate what is going on. But "because we're lower than bums" is not a logical explanation. As I said if you were lower than a bum, the landlord would not be showing off the apartment with you occupying it. Then they would no longer be a landlord but a slumlord. Duh. |
Never assume. It's common courtesy to always knock. Now, if there's no answer, then sure, go ahead.
Now, my apartment isn't owned or rented by my school, so when I moved in, I changed the locks. Only I, my husband, and a couple of good friends have keys. Still, if, like at my old position, my school had to have a copy of the key for maintenance, I'd require 24 hours notice, unless it was some emergency like a flood and I was out. Someone tried coming in once, and I shouted in banmal to get out, even though the latch stopped the door from opening all the way. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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I've had this happen to me only once, and it was back in the US. Just out of the shower and I heard the lock start to move, so with only the towel wrapped around me, I grabbed my .357 and got to the door just in time to block it with my foot and point the gun at the guys head through the door. Turned out it was the idiotic maintenance guy. I told him it would be better if he knocked in the future, him having no idea how close he was to death...
In Korea, my last place, the Realtor wanted to come in, and I told my school to tell the realator in no uncertain terms, if they did not knock or call me with at least a few minutes notice, I would not be letting them in. They said that in Korea they always arrive unannounced, and I said I didn't care - if they couldn't grant me the common courtesy of a warning call as they left the office to come over, I wouldn't let them in. When I explained how I could be naked, or fornicating, or masturbating, or all of the above, they realized that giving me a few minutes was probably the best idea.
Worked so well that last week, I got a call from the realator to tell me she was coming in - but I moved out in August! HA!
Steel rails - just because the maintenance guy has the key doesn't mean that SF gave it to them. Plenty of places the maintenance department has a key - it's common courtesy though to knock, wait for an answer (or no answer), then proceed.
To the guy whose mother in law came in - I can see that. Back home, my aunts and uncles and family members would just walk on in to our house, and we do it at their house. Generally though, its announced - i.e., hey, we'll come by sometime this week, etc. My father still walks into his parents house like he lives there, and I do the same thing. It really depends on the family, and the people, and the situations. |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| So you think a Korean workman would walk into another Korean's bedroom while they were asleep and start work in there without saying anything? |
Yes, it happens man. Koreans don't have the same sense of personal boundaries. Especially old people. Nobody ever closes the door either. I've seen old people change in front of other people. Parents have their kid pee in bottle in public. Not knocking is nothing.
Plenty of Koreans, especially single women, are careful to lock their doors and make sure who's at the door before answering because some people will try to barge in. My family is always careful because we've had some experiences with cult members trying to shove their way in. There were also times somebody would try to open our door at night. |
+1
I moved in to my newest apartment about 2.5 years ago. Up until fairly recently, I would get the occasional Korean person who would first try to open the door (several times), then knock and/or ring the bell continuously. When I open the door, they are quite surprised. It's obvious they weren't expecting me (a foreigner) and that they didn't have that close of a relationship with the previous tenant.
I don't think it's because the OP's a foreigner that these instances happened.
That being said, there are times where I agree with your general sentiment.
Earlier this year, my new co-teacher moved our desks while I was teaching a series of classes. He moved mine to a truly terrible position for his own gain. I don't think he would have done that to a Korean, especially since he didn't ask me or let me know at all.
But that being said, a number of (Korean) teachers offered to exchange desks with me. So yes, some Koreans act/behave in the manner that irks you, but there are many who don't.
Try to focus on the latter rather than the former. There are (idiots, racists, insecure aholes, etc) everywhere. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Ok, you guys have inspired me. Here's a unit I'l teach next week on this. |
Interested for my teachers class but I cant see a link to any unit. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Ok, you guys have inspired me. Here's a unit I'l teach next week on this. |
Interested for my teachers class but I cant see a link to any unit. |
Ah, ya have to join there. I'd post it up here, but don't know how to link a pdf doc to this forum. |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| When I explained how I could be naked, or fornicating, or masturbating, or all of the above, they realized that giving me a few minutes was probably the best idea. |
Awkward moment, per chance? |
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