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| Total Votes : 19 |
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darkjedidave
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai/Seoul
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 Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Never listen to it, so my point is invalid. |
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bekinseki
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Korean pop has definitely refined. And yes, it was godawful in the '90s, and has improved since then.
Now it's the D-War of music: made to promote Korea. I get the feeling most of the people pushing for K-pop bands and voting in all the online contests don't really like the music (although you could say that for mainstream music fans from all countries).
The independent music movement is finding its strength again and connecting with its roots, and I think it's possible we'll start to see a few bands break through. I think Galaxy Express could easily rise to influence over the next while, and take a few bands with them. |
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fosterman
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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the kpop model stolen from the USA Boy bands, NKOTB, Backstreet boys, new edition, etc.. the difference is, Kpop has stuck to that model and made it cooler, better in a sense. cooler? umm wrong word..
Kpop model is a good model, it would work well as a franchise.
of course it's been done.. but bringing it back with more force like in Korea
more intense dance moves, sexy girls, or guys and catching trashy pop songs like nsync BYE BYE BYE hahahaha might take over the world
but Korean bands going abroad to promote it in foreign countries and trying to break into the local charts wont work as well as the franchise model using local ethnic race kids. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Fosterman, as much as I hate and utterly despise her 'music' lady ga ga has taken what you described as the k-pop model of refinement and taken it to another level by having all those elements as well as taking a next step by weirding it out.
I have to go and self flagellate now that I just wrote a post the was in a way, constructive criticism of lady ga ga.  |
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zdrav
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| fosterman wrote: |
the kpop model stolen from the USA Boy bands, NKOTB, Backstreet boys, new edition, etc.. the difference is, Kpop has stuck to that model and made it cooler, better in a sense. cooler? umm wrong word..
Kpop model is a good model, it would work well as a franchise. |
The US boy band model was also a direct ripoff of the Motown music factories as well, wasn't it?
I think the K-pop model has worked so far because the industry has managed to convince the young trainees that the agencies are doing them a favour by working them to death for like 3% of the profits. Maybe for the no-talents with no other prospects in life, that would be true, but sooner or later, the truly talented are going to realize that they're being exploited.
It's like ballplayers in the early days. Many of them refused to unionize or stick up for themselves because they were so honoured to be playing professional baseball that they thought the owners were doing them a favour. Of course, the players eventually realized that their talent was at a premium, and now, we have ridiculous things like the latest Jose Reyes contract. |
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zdrav
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| DIsbell wrote: |
| zdrav wrote: |
Canada, Ireland, and Iceland all have considerably higher GDP per capita than Korea. Moreover, wealth distribution in those countries is probably much more evenly distributed than in Korea, the land of chaebol billionaires and dirt poor farmers in the countryside.
Also, Canada has a distinct advantage in basically sharing the American market due to a lack of a lingual, cultural, or even physical barrier. A band that develops in Vancouver is hardly different than a band that develops in Chicago, and probably ends up touring the same cities. I'd say Ireland has an advantage too since they speak English and have access to the UK market.
As for being wired, it's really not easy to make money through sales. Even top acts hardly make any money through selling CDs or songs. And indie groups could try to spread awareness through online means, but how would that translate to making a profit? Sure, you can point to Radiohead and Trent Reznor, but they were already mega-rich superstars when they decided to give away stuff for free.
As for homogeneity in Korean music, you have to realize the country really IS that homogeneous. Everything is pretty much make and consumed by one city: Seoul. You can't expect the kind of musical diversity you'd see in America, which is practically a continent of different countries. Could grunge have developed in Florida? Could rap have developed in Des Moines? Could country have developed in New York City? |
Yes, they do have higher per capita GDP, but are also considerably smaller, especially Iceland. Yet in Sigur Ros and Bjork, Iceland has two hugely successful groups that sell out concerts in several continents. And there are also smaller acts from Iceland that have found success making alternative music.
I will concede Canada to you, although again, per capita they've done amazing things musically. If you want to compare countries with very similar per capita GDP, look at France, Japan, and Korea. France has some of the world's top electronic artists (Justice, Daft Punk) and some well known indie rock groups (Phoenix). Japan has a thriving, diverse alternative music scene (Melt Banana, Polysics, Toe, and then previous acts like Nujabes, Number Girl, etc), even though their pop is even more drab than Korea's.
The homogeneity is another characteristic of Korea's culture that probably affects this discussion, but I don't agree with your characterization based on location. Yes, Seoul is the epicenter, but that's somewhat by choice (again, a characteristic), and there's really not a reason why other major cities like Busan or Daegu can't develop anything. If you're going to bring up Midwestern America, look no further than Omaha, Nebraska and the music that came out of there. It's not like all music in America comes from LA, Seattle, NY, Chicago, or Nashville.... almost every major city of 500,000+ (and many smaller ones) have musical claims to fame/success.
One more note about small labels/self-promotion: stuff like youtube, myspace, facebook, individual websites, and even iTunes/Amazon help lots of bands fill up concerts and make some money, in addition to smaller labels. It's a different ballgame that moves much faster compared to 15 or so years ago when indie bands had to rely almost exclusively on constant touring, alt magazines, and college radio for exposure. But even then, they still made it work. |
Korea's only been a steady developed democracy for only a few decades. It wasn't until the 1980s that South Korea actually started to pull ahead of NORTH KOREA in terms of standard of living. Plus, it was under a dictatorship at a time.
Yes, Japan was destroyed in WW II and had to rebuild in the 20th century, but ever since the Meiji Restoration, Japan was an open and cosmopolitan society. One only has to go to Paris to see how much the French appreciated, and still appreciate, the influence of Japanese artists on French culture. Meanwhile, what was Korea doing at this time? It was still the Hermit Kingdom living in the medieval era. You're comparing apples and oranges here.
Again, you have to stop comparing every country with America. America has so much diversity and wealth that one can more easily find a niche and sustain a livelihood by catering to that niche than in a place like Korea. Yes, bands may spring up from the Corn Belt, but undoubtedly, they'll be heading to bigger, wealthier, and more diverse cities to make their living and be recognized.
Also, we shouldn't forget that there were many Korean singer-songwriters in the Bob Dylan mold in decades past. This used to be the pop music for older generations. Shockingly though, tweens and teens decided that socially-conscious acoustic music played by middle-aged people was not quite as attractive as dance tunes sung by pretty boys and cute girls. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The US boy band model was also a direct ripoff of the Motown music factories as well, wasn't it? |
Uh, pretty sure Motown happened in the US. |
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zdrav
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The US boy band model was also a direct ripoff of the Motown music factories as well, wasn't it? |
Uh, pretty sure Motown happened in the US. |
Yeah, of course I know that  . Just wanted to make sure to give credit where credit was due, and just to reiterate that NKOTB/BSB/NSYNC were pioneers of jack. |
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bekinseki
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I saw F(x) last night, and the whole time I had the feeling that I was watching the Korean female version of NKOTB. |
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brickabrack
Joined: 17 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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"more intense dance moves, sexy girls"
I'd venture to say 'cute' vs. 'sexy'
....and, it's really not dancing per se.
More like jutting, jerking and posing.
I don't know if it's getting better.
Sounds like a more cutesy and much less
thralling version than the Am pop, Europop
and Jpop before it. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah the Korean dancers mimic 'sexy' and 'sensual' but never come anywhere close to achieving it.
It is, to me, a simulcra of the real thing.
Something really lacking in their culture. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
Yeah the Korean dancers mimic 'sexy' and 'sensual' but never come anywhere close to achieving it.
It is, to me, a simulcra of the real thing.
Something really lacking in their culture. |
It's not lacking, nor are they mimicking so much as they are Koreanifiying western pop iconography into Korean ideals. Korean men are into cutesy. |
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zdrav
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
Yeah the Korean dancers mimic 'sexy' and 'sensual' but never come anywhere close to achieving it.
It is, to me, a simulcra of the real thing.
Something really lacking in their culture. |
See, this what I'm talking about: people taking (valid) criticism of K-pop and using it justify a self-righteous "tut-tutting" of Korean culture in general.
I guess Korean culture owes you an apology that some of its teen idols can't give you a boner.
Also, are you implying that American equivalents like Miley Cyrus or Selena Gomez do indeed successfully mimic 'sexy' and 'sensual' for you? Or do you think American culture is "really lacking" as well? |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| zdrav wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
Yeah the Korean dancers mimic 'sexy' and 'sensual' but never come anywhere close to achieving it.
It is, to me, a simulcra of the real thing.
Something really lacking in their culture. |
See, this what I'm talking about: people taking (valid) criticism of K-pop and using it justify a self-righteous "tut-tutting" of Korean culture in general.
I guess Korean culture owes you an apology that some of its teen idols can't give you a boner.
Also, are you implying that American equivalents like Miley Cyrus or Selena Gomez do indeed successfully mimic 'sexy' and 'sensual' for you? Or do you think American culture is "really lacking" as well? |
My answer is no to all of the above, I don't think Korea owes me jack, I'm not tut tuttuing anything, I'm not american and I hate pop music. I just do not find Korean men or women sexy or sensual (and trust me I've tried plenty.)
It's just an observation. YOU are the one bringing in the negative value judgment or imagining I made a negative value judgement.
Maybe time to put some cold water on your hate-boner? |
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zdrav
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
Yeah the Korean dancers mimic 'sexy' and 'sensual' but never come anywhere close to achieving it.
It is, to me, a simulcra of the real thing.
Something really lacking in their culture. |
What's this "real thing" you're referring to? |
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