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The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003 Location: Sonic Space
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh...NYC...evading the focus of the discussion I see.. without ever having made your point...shameful tactic really, but common enough here at Dave's.
As anyone who is reading this thread can see, I rewrote that 1st opinion post when called on it the first time by Poltergeist. He made his point then, and I responded in kind with the post that you made your first comment to.
Which I have re-posted twice for you...and hear it is for the third time.
"My point was that "when most people think about vegetarians...they think about lunatic fringe cults...and the religious nature associated with vegetarianism is part of that problem." "
But somehow, oddly enough, you want to misquote me, then back quote me, but when given the chance to make clearer your initial point about the above quote, you don't end up making any real point at all.
Fair enough.
Enjoy your day. |
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The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003 Location: Sonic Space
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| Sectarianism is usually bad, but nonsectarian religious principles should be promoted to counter crass materialism/misuse of technology that results in harmful exploitation and unnecessary killing of billions living beings and apparent extinction of many species. |
You make an interesting point again Rteacher...but religious principles are not required.
You seem to be implying that religion has some insight into morality that atheists don't.
Those principles don't have to be associated with religious belief.
To counter crass materialism/misuse of technology that results in harmful exploitation and unnecessary killing of billions living beings and apparent extinction of many species does not require religion...it does require principles. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0

Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: |
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CH, I didn't misquote you. I hit the quote button on one of your posts. I changed nothing. Even your rewritten version means pretty much the same thing. You're wrong. I made my point more than once. Here it is, in bold, for the last time:
Vegetarians are not seen as some lunatic fringe cult by most people. Sure, some people might think this, but many people these days know that vegetarians have many differing reasons for their dietary choices, be they health related, animal rights, sometimes-more-efficient use of resources (depending on the particular area in the world,) food costs (hell, my aunt was pretty much raised on rice and beans, and hardly ever ate meat because it was so expensive in Cuba,) as well as those who choose to abstain from animal products because of a belief system (be it religion or philisophy.)
Okay. There it is, again. There really isn't anything else to say. Do enjoy your Sunday.
Best,
NYC |
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R. S. Refugee

Joined: 29 Sep 2004 Location: Shangra La, ROK
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:38 am Post subject: |
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I like to eat meat (organic, pastured, and humanely treated as much as possible) because I really think that it is far healthier than vegetarianism and even more so than veganism.
I like to get most of my diet from fat and some protein because it's healthier. This is primarily because our species evolved as hunter-gatherers and ate almost very little % of carbohydrate-dense foods like grains until agriculture hit the scene. And then, this happened,
"Those early farmers were shorter than the hunter-gatherers they replaced. They didn�t live as long, and they had smaller brains. They got a lot more infectious diseases and more cavities. In short, they were not as healthy as the hunter-gatherers. Same genes, same homo sapiens, different environment, worse health."
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-agriculture-ruined-your-health-and-what-to-do-about-it/ |
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pedrotaves
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:49 am Post subject: |
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i don't wish to get into an argument with you TCH, but i really would like to know what you think is the general population's image of vegetarians. i've been a vegan for 5 months now, so i feel like i can give an honest opinion of what modern meat-eaters think of vegetarians. i don't think "religious" is one of the first, second, or third things that people associate with vegetarianism. maybe if you have brown skin, they'll assume you're hindu or something? but as far as vegetarianism goes for me, i think most people think of:
1) young people/idealists
2) left-wing politics
3) peta
4) attention whores (not saying this because i think vegetarians are attention whores, but i get the feeling that meat-eaters see them as such. because the only reason to not support suffering is for attention...)
honestly, if someone were to come up to me and told me "yes, i'm christian. because of that, i'm a vegetarian!" i would be shocked. i have never heard of a connection between judeo-christianity and vegetarianism. |
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littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Though Koreans may think that you are vegetarian because of religion (though thinking of Buddhism, and not fringe cults), westerners are more likely to think it's because of animal rights.
I think there are lots of different reasons and everyone has their own reasons. I fit neither of the two reasons above, for example.
In any case, I think whatever people think the reason is for people being vegetarian, as it's a personal choice and doesn't affect meat eaters (except maybe to compromise a bit and find somewhere where you can both eat something if you are out with a veg*n and eating together), I don't see why people would object. If it bothers you, don't go out to eat with a veg*n.
Same goes the other way around for veg*ns opinions of meat eaters.
You eat what you like, I will eat what I like, and let's be respectful. ^^ |
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Rteacher

Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: |
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What "fringe cult"?
Krishna is accepted as God by well over 500 million people, and Bhagavad-gita, which Krishna spoke over 5000 years ago, clearly indicates that a diet of vegetarian food (including milk from cows that are protected from harm) is good for humans (whereas things like meat and liquor are in the mode of ignorance and are harmful).
http://www.krishna.com/how-many-people-follow-krishna-consciousness
I haven't really checked out this site, but it seems to make a strong case for something ... http://gitamrta.org/vegetarianism.html |
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The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003 Location: Sonic Space
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
CH, I didn't misquote you. I hit the quote button on one of your posts. I changed nothing. Even your rewritten version means pretty much the same thing. You're wrong. I made my point more than once. Here it is, in bold, for the last time:
[b]Vegetarians are not seen as some lunatic fringe cult by most people. |
I'm wrong am I?
...I already conceded the point about "most" a few posts ago.
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But again...what is your point?
The use of the word (most)?
I have done no in depth studies on the subject and can easily concede that point. I will allow others to draw from their own personal observations as well, but from my personal observations...most everyone who is not a veggie only lover has some angst with vegetarians. |
If that is all you were on about...then you were quite right...you really do have nothing more to say. |
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The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003 Location: Sonic Space
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| pedrotaves wrote: |
| i don't wish to get into an argument with you TCH, but i really would like to know what you think is the general population's image of vegetarians. i've been a vegan for 5 months now, so i feel like i can give an honest opinion of what modern meat-eaters think of vegetarians. |
Hey Pedrotaves,
As I wrote earlier,
| Quote: |
| from my personal observations...most everyone who is not a veggie only lover has some angst with vegetarians. |
While you have been a vegan for 5 months, and I wish you the greatest of success with it...I have been at this for more than 20 years so perhaps our perspectives are a bit different. I don't want to argue this point either...and think I will opt out of this thread...the TOS don't allow me to post my true feeling on this subject. I agree with your points...and Christianity has little to do with this thread...follow Rteacher's links and you will get a wider perspective on this.
Again...wishing you the best in your adventures into the field of vegan health.  |
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The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003 Location: Sonic Space
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| What "fringe cult"? |
Hey Rteacher...nothing but love for you.
All the best.  |
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Rteacher

Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA
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The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003 Location: Sonic Space
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Damn Rt... just earlier tonight I was trying to do a search on your karaoke exploits from the past...but the search engine failed me...and then you go and post these like you somehow knew I was needing them...damn you and your Karmic intuitiveness.
Good to hear you keepin at it!
And whether intentional or not...the choice of those two songs for this thread had me laughing to tears.
Cheers! |
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Rteacher

Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Online karaoke and the Seoul Veggie Club became major sources of entertainment for me while living in Korea. I think I recorded over 250 songs in 2009 alone. Now it's way more expensive for "Gold" members - and they try to restrict song parodies - but anyone can still join for free and record/save a fair number of songs (and email them to friends and relatives back home). And the Seoul Veggie Club, now mainly based on Facebook, is good for meeting all kinds of vegetarians/vegans, and for omnivores interested in experiencing what its like to be vegetarian/vegan etc. (at least on weekends). |
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komerican

Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Rteacher wrote: |
| Sectarianism is usually bad, but nonsectarian religious principles should be promoted to counter crass materialism/misuse of technology that results in harmful exploitation and unnecessary killing of billions living beings and apparent extinction of many species. |
You make an interesting point again Rteacher...but religious principles are not required.
You seem to be implying that religion has some insight into morality that atheists don't.
Those principles don't have to be associated with religious belief.
To counter crass materialism/misuse of technology that results in harmful exploitation and unnecessary killing of billions living beings and apparent extinction of many species does not require religion...it does require principles. |
The point needs to be made, however, that both religion and atheism do not necessarily offer a special or exclusive insight into "principles". |
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pedrotaves
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The point needs to be made, however, that both religion and atheism do not necessarily offer a special or exclusive insight into "principles".
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you're misunderstanding atheism as a positive belief system. it's just a lack of belief in god. the difficult part about atheism is that there isn't a dogmatic belief system like with religions, so there's a huge diversity in thinking. that said, i think the principles most atheists cherish are logic and truth (MOST, because there are some stupid atheists out there).
but you are right. one does not need to be atheist or religious to be vegetarian. the capacity to understand the moral and ethical implications of eating animals is not strictly limited to either. in my opinion, the best way to get there is to have an understanding of evolution (humans are not intrinsically better/more sacred than other species) and take those bits of knowledge to their logical conclusions.
Last edited by pedrotaves on Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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