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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| As far as learning Japanese versus Korean, which is important for people, Japanese is much easier than Korean (spoken Japanese) because the Japanese sound system is much easier. It's sometimes harder to distinguish between words in Korean than in Japanese. In some ways, the Japanese system would have more in common with Spanish than Korean. I don't mean the vocabulary, obviously. That would make it easier for foreigners to pick out Japanese words and understand Japanese. There has also been so much more material out there for learning Japanese than Korean. That has changed dramatically in Korea since 2007 in Korea. In 2006, when I first came, so many of the books available for learning Korea were just horrible. |
This is partially true, but only for very basic Japanese. Like "hi, my name is", "what is this?" sort of stuff. The pronunciation is easier. But Japanese literacy is much, much harder than Korean. You literally can't read most things unless you already understand what the kanji means (and each one has multiple, totally different soundings depending on context), which means you have to memorize thousands just to be able to read a newspaper. A beginner could study for 5 years just to get to the level of a Japanese grade schooler... Japanese vocabulary is also very difficult since many things sound similar. Not an easy language by any stretch. |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
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| Another huge factor is Koreans are far more open minded towards overseas study, especially at a young age. |
Just simply not true. My uni even had a Japanese campus! Plus the Japanese studetns mix with their host countries students much bettter and much more willingly than Koreans overseas ime. |
i agree. open minded is the last word Id use for a Korean. Ive met a few who are surfacely open minded, but when push comes to shove..
even for me, im near 40, and its so hard to talk to people here (and I speak the language!). Every time I touch down in Japan, I can have 3 pleasant convos in an hour. Somehow, when I feel like people talk to me here, theyre doing it to show off to other Koreans. Thats sad, but after 12 years, its what I feel. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| pegasus64128 wrote: |
| Dave Chance wrote: |
Lord yes, it's night and day.
It's pretty interesting because today's Japanese people actually came over from Korea, especially the Baekjae nation who were routed in war by the Silla.
Their invasions of Korea can therefore be viewed from a "retaking the motherland" viewpoint, especially when you consider how piss poor and undeserving the Joseon elite were...some Korean historians even claim that the founder of Joseon wasn't actually Korean, which if true would further bolster Baekjae's claims on her original stomping grounds..."reclaiming Korea from barbarians" as it were...(psst make sure u don't mention this in the presence of another Korean...just sayiin'...)
In any case, had Hideyoshi succeeded during the first invasion, it's probably safe to say this would have been quite a different country...not that J-pop, J-fashion, and J-business paradigms (i.e., the auto and video gaming industries) haven't left their mark here, not to mention railway technology, factories, and udon/ takoyaki octopus balls |
I find both this comment and ur previous one a little wayward.
Prostitution in Japan is as "officially" illegal as Korea. Japanese people are DEFINITELY NOT like Korean people - trust me. They look very different. A large portion of Japanese people have a slightly more Polynesian look. Japan is unique in Asia in terms of it's genetic chronology. They generally have longer noses, and shorter legs. I could go on an on about the physically obvious differences between them. I can usually tell the difference between a Korean, Japanese and Han-Chinese person with ease. You can't be right all of the time of course, but a lot!
edit: Not to mention the Ainu of Hokkaido who are most certainly nothing like Koreans ethnically. |
The Ainu are the remnants of the original inhabitants of the Japan, the hunter-gatherer Jomon people, who basically were overrun by transplanted Koreans, culturally, militarily, every which waywardly. Naturally there were various instances of intermarriage along the way, which accounts for some variation in appearance. However, the Jomon stone-based hunter-gatherer culture was totally supplanted by the metal-based agricultural model the Koreans brought over, and the bloodlines and general appearance shifted over mightily to one much more resembling Koreans than Ainu.
http://www.archaeology.org/9609/abstracts/dna.html
Most scholars believe that people from the Asian continent came to the Japanese archipelago in two migrations. An early wave brought the Jomon culture--hunter-gatherers who made pottery--to Japan more than 10,000 years ago. A second migration began about 2,300 years ago, when the Yayoi people, entering from the Korean Peninsula, brought weaving, metalworking, and rice culture to Japan. First appearing on the southwestern island of Kyushu, by ca. A.D. 300 Yayoi culture had spread throughout most of Japan, altering all local cultures south of Hokkaido, the northernmost island. Michael F. Hammer and Satoshi Horai are examining the extent to which the Jomon did or did not contribute genetically to the modern Japanese. Current hypotheses can be classified as replacement, hybridization, or transformation. In the first, Yayoi immigrants replaced the Jomon people. Hybridization theories claim that modern Japanese are descended from both groups, in which case they should have genes deriving from both the Jomon and Yayoi people. Transformation theories posit that modern Japanese people gradually evolved from the Jomon. Hammer and Horai, based on their study of the Y chromosome, conclude that hybridization, a mixing of Jomon and Yayoi stocks, is the most likely explanation for the origin of modern Japanese. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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A recent study from the World Competitiveness Center of Swiss business school IMD suggests that the largest "old" industrialized nations will suffer a "debt curse" lasting decades � in the worst case lasting until 2084. The IMD defines "bearable" public debt as being 60% or less of GDP and estimates the "time horizons" in which the nations will revert to bearable public debt, assuming they gradually reduce their budget deficits to reach equilibrium by 2015 and devote 1% of their GDP to repayment of debt. It also assumes that as of 2015 each nation resumes a GDP growth rate equivalent to its average rate from 2000 to 2009.
The 10 nations with longest time horizons are:
� Japan: 2084
� Italy: 2060
� Portugal: 2037
� Belgium: 2035
� U.S: 2033
� Iceland: 2032
� Greece: 2031
� France: 2029
� Germany: 2028
� U.K: 2028 |
As we see Japan is projected to take the longest to recover from its debt. Then again it has the highest level of debt in the OECD.
http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-database/economic-data/10394-public-debt-by-country.html#axzz1nehy1iHj |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Japan is actually in better shape than most countries. This is because they have such a strong industrial base, and massive trade surpluses most years. This also why the yen is a currency safe haven (with a very favorable exchange rate in these uncertain economic times). Strong currencies like the yen are less likely to be defaulted on.
Also, that figure only mentions public debt. Japan's overall debt is not as bad as other countries like the UK (which has a 400% debt to GDP if public and private debt are combined). |
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Garciua
Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Location: Iceland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| nate1983 wrote: |
| I only went to Japan once, but noticed that a lot of foreigners seemed to be pretty proficient in the local language compared to their peers in Korea. I can't imagine Korean TV going down to Itaewon and interviewing so many foreigners in Korean. |
It could be said that many more foreigners are interested in Japan rather than Korea. Furthermore, there are several (free) programs geared toward teaching foreigners Japanese whereas in Korea it seems to be more difficult outside of Seoul...  |
Though there is a really good website for learning korean and it's free. It beats all the non-free alternatives by miles. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| ChrisM wrote: |
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| nate1983 wrote: |
| I only went to Japan once, but noticed that a lot of foreigners seemed to be pretty proficient in the local language compared to their peers in Korea. I can't imagine Korean TV going down to Itaewon and interviewing so many foreigners in Korean. |
It could be said that many more foreigners are interested in Japan rather than Korea. Furthermore, there are several (free) programs geared toward teaching foreigners Japanese whereas in Korea it seems to be more difficult outside of Seoul... |
Though there is a really good website for learning korean and it's free. It beats all the non-free alternatives by miles. |
May be true, but taking Japanese classes from qualified teachers were some of the best times I've had...seriously fun and engaging...some foxy teachers as well, who don't mind turning up the heat once in a while, just to get a, um, rise outta ya |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| maximmm wrote: |
| happiness wrote: |
But yes, Koreans generally usually dont recognize anything I do, except my Korean language skills. I know alot about Korea history, etc, but they dont like me to speak of it. Ive been at my job for 8 + years, I built alot of the programs back in the day that they still use, but unless the boss is directly there telling them to take my advice, they wont listen.
haha I was told to ask a young teacher, who hasnt had a full 2 years experience (vs my 15+), how to do a program that I made! When I told her that, she went and told the boss I wouldnt let her teach me!
Of course, the whole point of that is she wanted to be the boss.
All communication is about power here. In Japan, there is a much bigger idea exchange. Maybe not the boss, but there, its alot more about info between people.
Communication here is quite passive, and reactive. I was thinking this again today. How to NOT get into trouble. Not HOW to impress the boss, students.
passive (korea) vs active (japan)
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It's rather odd that a a fairly new teacher would order you, knowing fully well your level of experience and your age. I suspect, however, that she was merely following orders from her 'boss' (was this in hagwon or something?). Age matters a great deal in Korea, as I'm sure you know, so it is very uncommon for a much younger teacher to order a much older one around, this applies to foreigners just as well.)
I'm sure you're aware of what happened at Olympus in Japan with the foreign CEO. The whole 'sharing of ideas' concept has not been as widely embraced in Japan as you claim.
Furthermore, if judging by the language alone, Japanese has even more levels of politeness than Korean. In other words, power plays as big of a role in Japanese language as it does in Korean.
I've spoken to a number of people who work/worked in Japan. Many are often expected to work as robots. Criticizing ideas, or a higher ups is not seen as an acceptable behavior.
It's not to say that Japan is such a horrible place, but if one were to compare these aspects of Japan to Korea, the difference is very minimal. |
It all really depends how you get on and how bright you are.
You can share a lot of ideas and drop the politeness game once you've established yourself and are truly accepted into the fold...true it does take a bit of doing...but when you're in it's gold  |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Been done before, but bears repeating-
There is so much in Japan that simply dwarfs Korea in terms of scale, conception and pure splendidness.
Japan (view from 1:45)-
http://vimeo.com/8611471
Korea-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlrWcr0P-6Y
Admitedly this isn't necessary related to work but rather to the overall incredible cultural richness and depth that one has access to in Japan...foreigners are literally blown away by what they can experience and learn once they get clued in, mainly because Japan truly developed itself independantly through the centuries (taking in influences just like anyone else, but really doing something with them and transforming them 'till they became something on another plane, cars fer instance), whereas the founder of Joseon (Yi Songgye) basically sold Korea to China (in my Korean student's words), which slid easily into the Joseon elite partnering up with Japan, then and now with the US.
For those into Zen, you'll never see or hear anything like this in Korea-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHLz9PEw11k
Basically South Korea just lost any chance at truly developing its traditions in an authentic and dynamic manner when the US missionaries succeeded in establishing Yonsei and Ehwa universities, followed by the US conquest in the war and establishment of military bases and ties with the power brokers who effectively run the country; you can follow a white Jesus or buy a good version of an I-Phone/Lexus, but u ain't gonna have much to distinguish yourself from your present and previous masters...and I hope you wake up and do something to prove me wrong, Korea, but frankly speaking Hallyu and cheesy pop songs just don't cut it |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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I would say the Korean bow is a lot better for archery, and horseback archery in particular. compound recurved steppe bows were monsters of war. Think mongol, hun, Juchen. Mounted longbow is kinda crazy. Also, look at the distance of the targets, the Koreans are shooting at a faster pace, on a curved track at a more distant target. I think you picked a bad example.
Having said that, I live in Japan now, and you couldn't pay me enough to go back to Korea. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| stilicho25 wrote: |
I would say the Korean bow is a lot better for archery, and horseback archery in particular. compound recurved steppe bows were monsters of war. Think mongol, hun, Juchen. Mounted longbow is kinda crazy. Also, look at the distance of the targets, the Koreans are shooting at a faster pace, on a curved track at a more distant target. I think you picked a bad example.
Having said that, I live in Japan now, and you couldn't pay me enough to go back to Korea. |
Uh, wasn't really thinking in terms of arrow-to-kill ratio here  , more in terms of some of the reasons why for example you're enjoying yourself far more at the moment. |
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