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"Support" for EPIK teachers in hostile work enviro
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps this post should be a sticky, I've posted it so many times.

The "chain of command/support/complaints" is as follows:

Supervising co-teacher (aka "foreigner wrangler/handler")
Department head
Head teacher
Vice-Principal
Principal
School inspector at your regional Office of Education
Supervisor of foreign teachers at the Provincial/Metropolitan City Office of Education
Superintendent of Education

If you have to make it to the last person on that list, you're already living in a nightmare. At any rate, if there's no joy after seeing the Superintendent, then you can go for the Labor Board if you believe there's a case.
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never had those levels, maybe it shouldn't be a sticky Razz

Come on guys, maybe it isn't always one way that you see it. Make sure you know who you should answer to regardless of the infrastructure.
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Who's Your Daddy?



Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still say if she yells at you walk out. That'll put the ball in the schools court to deal with it. Instead of trying to find the chain of command, have them come to you.

They have an obligation to provide a professional environment, and they're not providing it. They aren't meeting their side of the contract, point that out to them, and if they can't find another job.

Sometimes it's easier to just find another job. I've quit jobs, and never regretted it - my only regret was working there too long.
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:

The "chain of command/support/complaints" is as follows:

Supervising co-teacher (aka "foreigner wrangler/handler")
Department head
Head teacher
Vice-Principal
Principal
School inspector at your regional Office of Education
Supervisor of foreign teachers at the Provincial/Metropolitan City Office of Education
Superintendent of Education


....and none of them speak English.

I complained about my supervisor to the principal once. Unfortunately she was also the person responsible for translating my grievances.

She looked pretty uncomfortable Laughing but I know for a fact she changed the script ..because the principal replied with stuff totally unrelated to what I'd just told him.
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: "Support" for EPIK teachers in hostile work en Reply with quote

Julius wrote:
some waygug-in wrote:
Julius wrote:
Young FRANKenstein wrote:
I have no idea how someone can deal with such a vile, toxic co-teacher.



Years of practise, is how.

If you've been in Korea longer than a few years.. it starts to come to you real quick.


Well with all that experience surely you could give at least one helpful tip?


It can be hard when you're in a vulnerable position (e.g. you desperately need the job / have no other options..) but you have to nip such hostile behaviour in the bud from the beginning, or it mushrooms. In other words...raise your voice the first time she raises hers..and so on. You have to match and repel the subtle war of gestures before they lead to a full on bullying. Project strength to deflect an attack.


Agreed. Many here think because it's not their back yard anymore they just have to take anything. Nope. You wouldn't take it back home so why take it here just because someone is milking the home town advantage?

It's ridicule and soft bullying. The problem is that when you stand up to them strongly, they often flip it so that they are suddenly the victim and YOU are the aggressor with a problem, even though you are just reacting to their BS.

They may fold to your face but they still are looking for a way to get back at you (since they 'lost face' boohoo) and it becomes more passive aggressive at that point, which is more dangerous because they are nice to your face and you start to trust them, but the problem isn't solved.

She's got to get the other Koreans on her side and pull some strings that way. That's not easy either as she won't know who's totally on her side, especially when there's no advantage to siding with a foreigner in many cases. If the mean lady is absolutely hated by the others it could be possible but if not... they will almost always side with the rest of the tribe by default and the whole thing will backfire.

Ahh... Korean workplace antics. Always fun. I'm glad I don't have any enemies at my new job...yet. Laughing
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stevieg4ever



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately there is little to nothing your girlfriend can do.

Your provincial office is very, very unlikely to step in. If you tell your district co-ordinator they will come back to you in few days' time and try and turn the tables on her insinuating that it is her fault because of x, y and z. Ive seen this happen so many times ive lost count. The office wont take action unless you start to do things against the school's wishes.

Koreans won't punish another Korean in a Korean-foreigner dispute; sorry, it just will not happen. They may have a quiet word but that's about it. Their main goal is to try and keep her in her position till the end of the contract.

Leaving is the best option. Is she tough? Cause she'll need to be to last.
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coratheexplorer



Joined: 16 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spent the last ten years of my career working in mediation, in the legal field. Usually a situation like this is not resolved unless a higher up can lead the way towards a solution. Or put some kind, even if it is only subtle, of pressure on the aggressive party to curb the harmful behavior.

The overall work culture is very important. A big part of our work was helping to reform corporate and company cultures to be more amenable to open conflict resolution and open feedback and dialogue. This is scary for most people, but essential because otherwise the good people go!!

In this situation, honestly it doesn't sound good. This woman has to feel there will be repercussions for her behavior. Has anyone else witnessed this?? She may feel free to "unleash" if you will, on a foreigner. People are often targets of harassment, mild or severe, when they are different or appear vulnerable in some way. A stranger in a strange land is inherently vulnerable, of course.

Or she may trigger something in this woman's personal history. Is your girlfriend quite attractive? That unfortunately was the cause in a handful of cases I dealt with. It was always worse when the up and coming young lady was very pretty. Middle aged women (of which I am one. don't mean to call out my sisters LOL) often do not know how to nurture young female talent. Is there any human resources office designed to handle such complaints?

I wish her the best of luck. Maybe it will just fade away. Maybe this woman will come to her senses and realize she was just acting from an irrational place. People can change!!! But usually mediation is necessary. But also miracles *do* happen
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coratheexplorer



Joined: 16 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: "Support" for EPIK teachers in hostile work en Reply with quote

I just re-read it and I realize I didn't grasp the age aspect. I assumed the American teacher was younger but now that I read more closely I see it might not be the case. Interesting how I automatically assumed that

Mix1 wrote:



The problem is that when you stand up to them strongly, they often flip it so that they are suddenly the victim and YOU are the aggressor with a problem, even though you are just reacting to their BS.

They may fold to your face but they still are looking for a way to get back at you (since they 'lost face' boohoo) and it becomes more passive aggressive at that point




yes very true. Astutely observed. That's why a neutral third party is essential because he or she can usually separate the fact from the fiction. Some people will do anything to avoid having to take responsibility for their actions. It's alarming actually the lengths some people will go to. I hope this doesn't escalate for the sake of the American woman involved here. Keep us posted. Maybe it has already been resolved by now!!
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coratheexplorer



Joined: 16 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: "Support" for EPIK teachers in hostile work en Reply with quote

some waygug-in wrote:


I've had several KT's who were (not quite as bad) as the one described,

and I've still not found a way to deal with them. I finally gave up and left Korea because of it.


And have you found it to be sufficiently different in wherever you have since gone to? (Assuming you are still abroad that is) Just wondering if it is something, a degree of xenophobia or defensiveness unique to South Korean people? Don't see how, logically speaking, but the things on this board do seem to be way more inflamed than what I read about other places.
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Mr Lee's Monkey



Joined: 24 Oct 2007

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Central Cali nailed it, and it should be a sticky. Was once in a very similar situation and went through every person up to # 7 - that was where and how I finally got relief, because they really were concerned about the condition of English education and the treatment of foreign teachers. I didn't come away unscathed and it took a lot of time and inordinate patience, but the woman who harrassed me daily was finally put into a place where she could never work out on a foreign teacher again.
YTMND - there is no comparison to a hagwon, and I find it difficult to believe that you are the expert you seem to think you are. Not meant to be a personal attack, but you really do come off as if you think you know better than anyone with such high frequency that you've compromised your own cred - certainly in this thread. I'll add that smarm and snark are less cute than annoying - every time.
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
YTMND - there is no comparison to a hagwon, and I find it difficult to believe that you are the expert you seem to think you are. Not meant to be a personal attack, but you really do come off as if you think you know better than anyone with such high frequency that you've compromised your own cred - certainly in this thread. I'll add that smarm and snark are less cute than annoying - every time.


I don't know what kind of expert you think I am or was trying to be, I am not. The original poster commented about EPIK, and I have never worked for EPIK. I am no expert when it comes to EPIK. I have worked with GEPIK and I signed a contract through an organization to work in Incheon which I understand used a typical EPIK contract. Does that mean it was run EXACTLY like an EPIK job? I honestly don't know.

I do know this:

1) When I worked in Gyeongsangbukdo, I knew who to talk to.
2) When I worked in Seoul, I knew who to talk to.
3) When I worked in Gyeonggido, I knew who to talk to.
4) When I worked in Incheon, I knew who to talk to.

That's all I was trying to convey. There was absolutely no new bit of information I was trying to present as if I knew something you or someone else wouldn't know.

Next time, try a friendlier approach and maybe I will understand more what the heck you have a problem with.

I knew who to talk to, if that makes us experts, that's awesome. We should all know who to talk to when problems come up. We can all be experts then Wink

I'll reiterate for anyone new and genuinely seeking guidance, make sure you know who you should answer to regardless of the infrastructure. I apologize for the rant before this message. I don't know why some people got to attack without reasonable cause.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevieg4ever wrote:
.

Koreans won't punish another Korean in a Korean-foreigner dispute; sorry, it just will not happen. .


Except it's happened quite a few times. At least once in this thread.

And once it made even headline news

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8382087.stm



Quote:
... I didn't come away unscathed and it took a lot of time and inordinate patience, but the woman who harrassed me daily was finally put into a place where she could never work out on a foreign teacher again...



And I have two personal experiences of coming in on the winning side of a foreigner-Korean dispute.

And all those teachers who have gone to the labor board and won.

Sorry but it has and does happen.

As for the OP Julius nailed it. She should have nipped it in the bud. The first time the co-teacher got snippy with her, she should have chosen a time where the students were pre-occupied with a handout/video/skit and then asked the co-teacher out in the hall and let her know in no uncertain terms that there will be problems if that happens again.

However as already said...it seems that it is gone too far for that. If she only has a couple of months to go..grin and bear it. If longer then trying the chain of command might do something...at least it will serve notice to the co-teacher that her behaviour is no longer acceptable. She's doing it because she can get away with it.
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