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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| fosterman wrote: |
franchises are killing this country and the people in it.
big business like to think they are creating jobs, but in fact the slave wages
they offer can not be justified, they destroy so many mum and pop stores
pay their workers nothing, and reap all the profits, force realestate prices up
so little guys can't get stores, franchisers offer loans for key money and everything, and what is the government doing about it? NOTHING.
they are all getting their kick backs. |
What would you want the government to do about people voluntarily entering business agreements? |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| fosterman wrote: |
franchises are killing this country and the people in it.
big business like to think they are creating jobs, but in fact the slave wages
they offer can not be justified, they destroy so many mum and pop stores
pay their workers nothing, and reap all the profits, force realestate prices up
so little guys can't get stores, franchisers offer loans for key money and everything, and what is the government doing about it? NOTHING.
they are all getting their kick backs. |
What would you want the government to do about people voluntarily entering business agreements? |
Perhaps a stronger social safety net? The establishment of the limited liability corporation?
I don't think one should have to go homeless because their business failed. It only breeds risk-averse behavior that doesn't get you anywhere. That said, however, I have no sympathy for business owners who don't pay their employees' wages on time. If an employer is so much as a day late on wages, the government should immediately freeze all of the business owners' and their extended families' assets (and all financial accounts incl. all credit extended to them). |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
I stopped buying coffee unless it's from a place selling it for 2,000 to 2,500 won. Inflation in Seoul has been horrible, and coffee shops are outrageous. As noted, they want the same for what a full meal costs in some places. That's just nuts.
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Ediya Coffee FTW. Only franchise in all of Korea that has coffee for less than 3k won. Well that and McD's-they have pretty decent coffee  |
My daughter, who is 2, always asks us to take her to Ediya because we often stop there on the way to the mall. 
There is a privately-owned coffee shop named Freestyle near my school that offers 1,000 won Costco muffins and 3 Costco cookies for 1,500. And I can get a caramel macchiato (sp?) for 2,500! The foreigners from work drink there almost exclusively. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| cdninkorea wrote: |
| fosterman wrote: |
franchises are killing this country and the people in it.
big business like to think they are creating jobs, but in fact the slave wages
they offer can not be justified, they destroy so many mum and pop stores
pay their workers nothing, and reap all the profits, force realestate prices up
so little guys can't get stores, franchisers offer loans for key money and everything, and what is the government doing about it? NOTHING.
they are all getting their kick backs. |
What would you want the government to do about people voluntarily entering business agreements? |
Perhaps a stronger social safety net? The establishment of the limited liability corporation?
I don't think one should have to go homeless because their business failed. It only breeds risk-averse behavior that doesn't get you anywhere. That said, however, I have no sympathy for business owners who don't pay their employees' wages on time. If an employer is so much as a day late on wages, the government should immediately freeze all of the business owners' and their extended families' assets (and all financial accounts incl. all credit extended to them). |
You've have to change the law in order to do that
Under South Korean law the owner has 14 days to pay AFTER the payday's date.
And seizing other people's assets who may have nothing to do with the business would likely be illegal and met with lawsuits.
In other words you want a dictatorship. Sorry Koreans tried it and rejected it. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Cafe prices |
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| madoka wrote: |
I went to one cafe in Hongdae this weekend where the guy actually sized me up before giving me the menu. . |
I had that happen too at one of the wanna be posh ones there too. Maybe the same one. Second floor?
I don't think most of those places stay in business very long, especially with attitudes like that.
And the food items...half the time it's sub standard, poorly done, western style food at four times the price. I got a sandwich and chips once, it was a tasteless small half sandwich with literally 3 chips next to it for 12,000 won.
And don't forget the pastries...usually pretty tasteless, sponge-textured things with processed fake cream frill and plasticy candies all over them. No real butter or cream seem to be used here at all. It's gotten a bit better in the last couple years, although "Perry Bag It" is still the worst violator, despite the fancy name.
I guess the equivalent would be a restaurant in the US that served a half roll of tasteless kimbab on a really cute plate with pseudo Asian designs...and charging 12 dollars for it. The place would be filled with pretentious Americans trying to appear hip by fumbling with chopsticks and mini tea cups. Then to appear even more globally aware, they bring a Korean friend there, thinking he or she would be impressed. The Korean would be like....um....WTF? (in Korean of course..."Mwo-ya?") |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| cdninkorea wrote: |
| fosterman wrote: |
franchises are killing this country and the people in it.
big business like to think they are creating jobs, but in fact the slave wages
they offer can not be justified, they destroy so many mum and pop stores
pay their workers nothing, and reap all the profits, force realestate prices up
so little guys can't get stores, franchisers offer loans for key money and everything, and what is the government doing about it? NOTHING.
they are all getting their kick backs. |
What would you want the government to do about people voluntarily entering business agreements? |
Perhaps a stronger social safety net? The establishment of the limited liability corporation?
I don't think one should have to go homeless because their business failed. It only breeds risk-averse behavior that doesn't get you anywhere. That said, however, I have no sympathy for business owners who don't pay their employees' wages on time. If an employer is so much as a day late on wages, the government should immediately freeze all of the business owners' and their extended families' assets (and all financial accounts incl. all credit extended to them). |
You've have to change the law in order to do that
Under South Korean law the owner has 14 days to pay AFTER the payday's date.
And seizing other people's assets who may have nothing to do with the business would likely be illegal and met with lawsuits.
In other words you want a dictatorship. Sorry Koreans tried it and rejected it. |
Aside from that he essentially wants to kill any small business that runs into any financial trouble whatsoever. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| cdninkorea wrote: |
| fosterman wrote: |
franchises are killing this country and the people in it.
big business like to think they are creating jobs, but in fact the slave wages
they offer can not be justified, they destroy so many mum and pop stores
pay their workers nothing, and reap all the profits, force realestate prices up
so little guys can't get stores, franchisers offer loans for key money and everything, and what is the government doing about it? NOTHING.
they are all getting their kick backs. |
What would you want the government to do about people voluntarily entering business agreements? |
Perhaps a stronger social safety net? The establishment of the limited liability corporation?
I don't think one should have to go homeless because their business failed. It only breeds risk-averse behavior that doesn't get you anywhere. That said, however, I have no sympathy for business owners who don't pay their employees' wages on time. If an employer is so much as a day late on wages, the government should immediately freeze all of the business owners' and their extended families' assets (and all financial accounts incl. all credit extended to them). |
You've have to change the law in order to do that
Under South Korean law the owner has 14 days to pay AFTER the payday's date.
And seizing other people's assets who may have nothing to do with the business would likely be illegal and met with lawsuits.
In other words you want a dictatorship. Sorry Koreans tried it and rejected it. |
Aside from that he essentially wants to kill any small business that runs into any financial trouble whatsoever. |
I want personal assets seized (frozen, not seized). A lot of small business owners fake-divorce after changing the title to all of their assets to their spouse's, parents', siblings' names or whatever. The company would be able to operate normally, as their assets aren't frozen, the owner would go bankrupt (on paper) until the wages+interest+penalties are paid. The business itself would be sold off to someone who has the cash and is actually capable of running a business, or sold off in parts, or nationalized. Even in bankruptcy, unpaid wages should NEVER be dischargeable. That is a debt that should follow the owners FOREVER. It wouldn't even be discharged if the person dies, the estate would be seized to pay. If the person has no money, forced labor.
Maybe then they'll take the payment of wages seriously.
Either that, or require 3-10 years' worth of wages to be posted in cash as a performance bond, in case the business fails to pay its wages. That, or failure to pay wages should be included in unemployment insurance.
Perhaps then maybe not every incompetent Dick and Harry would start up a small business.
If you can't make payroll (a healthy, well-managed business that runs into temporary trouble CAN and DOES take out loans to make payroll), you're going to go belly-up eventually. You're only delaying the inevitable. |
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Binch Lover
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Hugo85 wrote: |
| Buying a coffee is buying a seat in a store outside from home for a whole day. You are paying for this space, not for the coffee or the employees. |
This is exactly right. That's why you can often get very cheap coffee for take out in these places.
As for the 9,000 won cup of coffee, that's just outrageous. There are plenty of places in Hongdae that have nice coffee for around 4,000 won - with free (or nearly free) refills.
Also, a little known fact is that a lot of the Korean franchises will give you refills for 500 or 1,000 won if you order a drip coffee or Americano initially. I know that Pascucci and Tom n Toms do it, and also perhaps Holly's and Angel-in-us. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:57 am Post subject: |
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[quote="TheUrbanMyth"][quote="motiontodismiss"][quote="cdninkorea"][quote="fosterman"]franchises are killing this country and the people in it.
big business like to think they are creating jobs, but in fact the slave wages
they offer can not be justified, they destroy so many mum and pop stores
pay their workers nothing, and reap all the profits, force realestate prices up
s
In other words you want a dictatorship. Sorry Koreans tried it and rejected it.[/quote]
Tell that to the teenagers who want to see Lady Gaga. |
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fosterman
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:55 am Post subject: |
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[quote="atwood"][quote="TheUrbanMyth"][quote="motiontodismiss"][quote="cdninkorea"]
| fosterman wrote: |
franchises are killing this country and the people in it.
big business like to think they are creating jobs, but in fact the slave wages
they offer can not be justified, they destroy so many mum and pop stores
pay their workers nothing, and reap all the profits, force realestate prices up
s
In other words you want a dictatorship. Sorry Koreans tried it and rejected it.[/quote]
Tell that to the teenagers who want to see Lady Gaga. |
nothing wrong with selected socialism , we do it now anyway, somethings are mandatory, like car insurance, health insurance, that's dictatorship, that's government tell you what to do, killing is illegal, smoking weed, driving over 100km on the highway, there are laws here. laws are a kind of socialism.
so what's wrong with adding a few more items to it, like controlled real estate prices, petrol, food, water electricity etc.. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="fosterman"][quote="atwood"][quote="TheUrbanMyth"][quote="motiontodismiss"]
| cdninkorea wrote: |
| fosterman wrote: |
franchises are killing this country and the people in it.
big business like to think they are creating jobs, but in fact the slave wages
they offer can not be justified, they destroy so many mum and pop stores
pay their workers nothing, and reap all the profits, force realestate prices up
s
In other words you want a dictatorship. Sorry Koreans tried it and rejected it.[/quote]
Tell that to the teenagers who want to see Lady Gaga. |
nothing wrong with selected socialism , we do it now anyway, somethings are mandatory, like car insurance, health insurance, that's dictatorship, that's government tell you what to do, killing is illegal, smoking weed, driving over 100km on the highway, there are laws here. laws are a kind of socialism.
so what's wrong with adding a few more items to it, like controlled real estate prices, petrol, food, water electricity etc.. |
Regulation does not automatically equate to socialism. Car and health insurance are not dictatorship.
I'm pretty sure your last statement is sarcasm, although it's hard to tell.
For all true libertarians, Somalia throws its opens arms toward you. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
[
(1) The business itself would be sold off to someone who has the cash and is actually capable of running a business, or sold off in parts, or nationalized. Even in bankruptcy, unpaid wages should NEVER be dischargeable. That is a debt that should follow the owners FOREVER. It wouldn't even be discharged if the person dies, the estate would be seized to pay. If the person has no money, forced labor.
Maybe then they'll take the payment of wages seriously.
Either that, or require 3-10 years' worth of wages to be posted in cash as a performance bond, in case the business fails to pay its wages. That, or failure to pay wages should be included in unemployment insurance.
(2)Perhaps then maybe not every incompetent Dick and Harry would start up a small business.
If you can't make payroll (a healthy, well-managed business that runs into temporary trouble CAN and DOES take out loans to make payroll), you're going to go belly-up eventually. You're only delaying the inevitable. |
1. And if they can't find anyone to buy it?
How do you sell a hakwon in parts?
Nationalized...really? The government is going to bother to NATIONALIZE a HAKWON? Not to mention that a hakwon is already a Korean business run by Koreans and patronized by Koreans...this simply makes no sense. Also you say"
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| It wouldn't even be discharged if the person dies, the estate would be seized to pay. If the person has no money, forced labor. |
I do believe that forced labor doesn't work very well with dead people.
2. Hardly anyone would start up a business with those kinds of imposed penalties then. Yes small business go bankrupt and people don't get paid...that's a risk people take. But a debt that follows you forever? Even people with money are going to say "forget this".
It also seems completely at odds with your statement above.
| Quote: |
| I don't think one should have to go homeless because their business failed. It only breeds risk-averse behavior that doesn't get you anywhere. |
And a debt that is forever doesn't increase this risk averse behaviour? |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| For all true libertarians, Somalia throws its opens arms toward you. |
I'm going to charitably assume you're grossly misinformed on libertarian political philosophy and not... well, finishing that sentence might result in a breach of the Terms of Service for this forum.
Somalia is not a place that represents the libertarian vision, as free markets require a government to do certain necessary functions, such as contract enforcement (along with courts with the authority and ability to do so) and objective punishment of those who initiate violence against others, such as assault (courts again as well as police, or military to address foreign aggressors). |
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jpe
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Location: Seoul, SK
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:15 am Post subject: |
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There's an independent cafe down my street (Yeongdeungpo Station) that sells Americanos for 2,000. Strong too...the owner speaks really good English, I think maybe she learned how to make it in the West.
I think outside of places like Hongdae, non-chain coffee shops are pretty reasonable...I can think of another one in Sindorim with similar prices/quality. Just look for the holes-in-the-wall |
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gobbledygook
Joined: 18 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| speaking of coffee, I just had my first chai tea latte at starbucks this week since my arrival ..5500 won for a chai tea that tasted more like milk to me..am kinda wondering if i overpaid..Tell me the price is not excessive in comparison to that in the U.S? |
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