Korean Job Discussion Forums

[TECO]

Dear Scott in H.K.,

I was at the top of the grade scale (High Distinction) in several of the classes I took - Including one of the toughest courses on offer - Quantitative/Qualitative research methods.

So, you not knowing me or how I performed on my assignments and seminars, how would you know I did not 'put anything into it?'

Anyhoo, that's not really saying much, considering the poor quality of the students in the USQ program.

Distance Ed M.A.s are a joke and without contributing to the body of literature with an original peice of research, your M.A. won't be taken seriously.

[Scott in HK]

TECO...

I took..."it was a complete joke" as a indication that you didn't find the course that hard. Did you mean something else by it?

Taking that as my assumption, I suggested that you could have made it into something that was not a complete joke by going out of your way to put extra effort into your courses.

If you did this...as you said in your last post...then why was it a complete joke? Because you could finish it in a year...you knew that going in....no dissertation...you knew that too....if this is the case...I have to ask why did you take a course that you knew to be a complete joke.

[TECO]

Dear Scott,

After arriving, sitting in class, talking to teachers and other students I soon realized the program was a 'joke.'

[Zed]

In case anyone's getting any misconceptions about this, you can do a dissertation in at least some of the Australian universities (at least one anyway). It's not compulsory but I believe it would make the degree look more valuable to prospective employers.

[Scott in HK]

TECO...

I thought you did a distance degree....isn't that what one of your posts said....now you are saying that you sat in on classes...so you did your degree on-campus...or did you just visit the school at some point during your distance degree....I am a tad confused....

[TECO]

Scott,

I did both - started out as distance and then went and did the rest in class.

Zed,

Yes, most schools allow you to do the thesis if your grades are high enough.

At USQ, you have to apply to do the thesis. USQ does not allow you to do the thesis until after you have finished your course work.

[Zed]

[TECO]

Zed,

You're doing it right, I think.

Going to a respected school and you're going to finish it on campus.

Good decisions.

That may be USQ's policy but I could see it being a logical step to get the course work *research methods* out of the way first and then go on to do your field work.

[Zed]

I received a strange reply to a query I made to my university in Australia. They told me that they'd never had any school inquire about whether a degree was done via distance or on campus. I'm sceptical.

[TECO]

Zed,

Interesting that you should bring this up....

When I was studying at USQ in Australia, I asked my Department academic adviser about their distance degrees not being recognized in Taiwan and other countries.

She played dumb and said that she'd never heard of it.

They recruit students quite agressively in Taiwan (and all over Asia) and even have a satellite campus in Taipei City (as well as Singapore and Bangkok), so I'm not sure where the truth really lies on this matter.

Word is getting out, slowly, that distance degrees are not recognized in Taiwan and some other countries.

Last November, I attended an Australian education fair in Taipei City where most, if not all, of the Australian universities came to Taiwan and set up information booths trying to recruit Taiwanese students.

I spoke with the Dean of the Linguistics program, Anne Burns, from Mcquarie University regarding their Doctorate of Applied Linguistics program which is offered only in Distance Mode.

I explained to her that there are countries, such as Taiwan, that do not recognize distance degrees and she claimed that she was not aware of any country not accepting their distance M.A. and Doctoral degrees.

I asked her if I could do the degree on-campus for at least a year to satisfy the MOE requirements here in Taiwan and all she could say is that they would have to think about it as it is only a distance degree at the moment.

[Zed]

One of the things that I find odd was that I was simply making enquiries about whether the dissertation would be considered to be on-campus if I completed it as planned during my stay in Australia, since someone indicated to me that the dissertation would not be considered as an on-campus class. I indicated that I was planning to spend time in Sydney to finish the last 6 (of 10) classes not that I was going to abandon the program so I don't see why they should be defensive about it and pretend that they are unaware of the problem.

How did you convince them to consider yours as on-campus, TECO, since you did do some of the classes via distance first if I remember correctly?

[TECO]

Zed,

Yeah, I've watched this discussion closely because I was also once stressed out after I realized a distance degree wouldn't be recognized in some countries.

I just re-applied after my first distance course to study on-campus. It was easy to change to on-campus status from distance mode.
USQ accepted my application to study on-campus and I went to Australia to finish the degree.

I guess it would be the same for you at McQuarie - you'd have to re-apply as an on-campus student. I don't know for sure, though.

Get it done on campus though is my best suggestion to you.

[Zed]

Are there no questions from the university about the dates on your transcripts?

I thought you mentioned something about how you had to persuade them in Taiwan somehow to allow yours to be considered that way after completing it. No?

[TECO]

Yeah, I was lucky.

There are dates on my transcripts but I never stopped studying after that first distance course so there are no time gaps in my transcripts.

The department assistant looked at my documents and asked me some questions about my transcripts and had me fill out a form for the MOE saying that my documents were authentic and everything else was true.

In Taiwan it's pretty tough to get through all the screening of your documents without a student visa stamped in your passport and having all your documents verified by the country you did your M.A. in II needed the Australian Govt. to verify my documents) and the Taiwanese government (the documents were then sent to the Taiwanese embassy in Sydney for further verification).

The Taiwanese govt. just want proof that you studied on campus for at least one year and my student visa was for exactly one year and all of my coureses were mostly taken on-campus.

After that I was never hasseled again about my transcripts and I was given a teaching license.

Once you have the Certificate of Lecturship you are all set and your worries are pretty much over.

[Pusanpoe]

I worked damm hard for my masters from an Australian university that use to be a teachers college with a long tradition. I got some 80percent marks with decent papers but yes they are willing to put you through the fire and fail you as I found out in respect to other students there. No dissertation but over 100,000 words of work reasonably and carefully scrutinized albeit not all markers will be perfect.I know personally of even marks of near 20 percent being given.

The universities are also audited by the Australian government and if you look at some of the reports they are quite frank at times. I know though that Monash got a worrisome reputation at some point for lowering admission standards but I think it was reined in again by the government -all in respect to that unis graduate distance ed programmes.

I know there are a lot of sour grape teachers out there who feel put down by those who hold masters degree -or even Ph.D. Someone without any degree employed throughout Korea and Southeast Asia are simply saying my kids like me, I teach the book, I am rehired so who cares about degree holders. Yet I have also heard that stamps on degreed from the embassy authenticating the validity of these degrees is happening.This may say something about the state of the EFL industry in Asia. The fact is the more qualified overall are better teachers as I am sure research will generally show even if the student/parent customer can not completely figure out at times who is a good teacher or even defines a good teacher as simply someone who plays games extensively or otherwise known as edutainment. At the end of the process it is effective and authentic learning that should matter- but yes some institutes may serve more as dayare centres than language learning institutes. One could still argue that even in such a situation a qualified person who understands children is better.

Interesting quite a few people with graduate degrees are leading the way to truly improving standards be it KOTESOL, ASIA TEFL and other teacher associations. Others include Daves'eslcafe (Dave has a masters degree accreditted) and Asian eFL journal and EFL Law people have graduate degrees. Then the various Asian ministries are headed at a policy level by graduate degree holders and they are putting extra effort to expose the fakes these days and raise the standards given the tremendous global competition graduates are facing in the market place.Bottom line there is a reason teachers with ed degrees are favored at the pre uni levels in general in places like Hong Kong and Singapore which have proven top competitive. And why Master levels will become the standard more and more at the unis.

All yee fakes out there repent and get accredited. Most Asian countries feel significant pressure to prove to the ever more educated parents that their employees are truly qualified. It will be also a better service to your students and you won't have to keep looking over your shoulder about somebody turning you in for the three million won or whatever it is or about immigration raids. There is a reason why productivity rates and economic efficiency on a sustainable level seem to correlate with a high standard of education. THere is a reason why 90 percent of those teaching in Korea would never be let near a classroom in the West and would never make it pass the front door of even some of the worse language institutes in places like Canada and Europe.

Anyway, good luck to one and all and a safe sejourn wherever you are.