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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
| tatertot wrote: |
| I really felt that the last episode was just not realistic (I know it's a fantasy series, but bear with me). I rolled my eyes when Stannis was the first person up the first ladder. It was pretty absurd that people kept getting cut in half, too. I think I really liked the first season because it was "realistic" (within the constraints of the world), but the second season has been a total let down for me. |
Well, I've read that in Japan they used to test new swords for sharpness by cutting dead bodies (or a very unfortunate slave) in half from shoulder to waist. Could a longsword have cut through a body? I don't see why not if the swordsman was skilled. |
Historically, a European longsword could perform better than a katana because of better access to metal, although I've also read both swords performed very similarly in general.
The problem in the episode is that while Sandor is skilled and strong enough, it's hard to get that kind of clean cut against an opponent wearing armor and in battle. Also if you wanna be really realistic, swords in general are shitty weapons against armor, especially if you're trying to cut.
Within the confines of the world, I think guys getting cleaved in half was too over the top. Especially if you consider how hard of time Theon had beheading a guy in an earlier episode. There's also the scene where a guy wearing a helmet has his head blown up because he got hit by a rock. |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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I'm really surprised at the number of people complaining about the amount of sex in the show (and not just because I'm a man). Doubly so for those who have read the books.
GRRM uses sex to illustrate limits and boundaries of his world and characters. The show, limited by its medium, must expedite this process. How a character interacts in the sexual world is a clear indicator of their personalities.
When we see Renly's wife attempt to consummate their marriage, how clear does her character become?
How does the way Theon treats women he sleeps with show us where his story will go?
When Stannis sleeps with Melasandra, what do we learn about him?
All the minor, seemingly random sex scenes/activities also have a purpose. They give us an idea about the world in which GRRM has created, but also reminds us that the characters are still people. Listen to the way Cerci talks about sex and I think you'll get a better idea about this. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
All the minor, seemingly random sex scenes/activities also have a purpose. They give us an idea about the world in which GRRM has created, but also reminds us that the characters are still people. Listen to the way Cerci talks about sex and I think you'll get a better idea about this. |
The only scenes I didn't really care for were the ones with Ros or whatever her name is and Baelish's brothel, especially that one scene where he wipes sperm off that one *beep*'s face. I know its supposed to show what kind of person he is and whatnot but I feel like with so many things that happen in that world, they could've shown something a little more relevant to the major plot. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| tatertot wrote: |
| I really felt that the last episode was just not realistic (I know it's a fantasy series, but bear with me). I rolled my eyes when Stannis was the first person up the first ladder. It was pretty absurd that people kept getting cut in half, too. I think I really liked the first season because it was "realistic" (within the constraints of the world), but the second season has been a total let down for me. |
Well, I've read that in Japan they used to test new swords for sharpness by cutting dead bodies (or a very unfortunate slave) in half from shoulder to waist. Could a longsword have cut through a body? I don't see why not if the swordsman was skilled. |
Historically, a European longsword could perform better than a katana because of better access to metal, although I've also read both swords performed very similarly in general.
The problem in the episode is that while Sandor is skilled and strong enough, it's hard to get that kind of clean cut against an opponent wearing armor and in battle. Also if you wanna be really realistic, swords in general are shitty weapons against armor, especially if you're trying to cut.
Within the confines of the world, I think guys getting cleaved in half was too over the top. Especially if you consider how hard of time Theon had beheading a guy in an earlier episode. There's also the scene where a guy wearing a helmet has his head blown up because he got hit by a rock. |
Sure, but the presence of dragons, witches, and warlocks should be a strong indicator that the story should be followed with a certain degree of suspended disbelief.
In any case, the confines of the world? I think the exaggeration is a useful device in establishing him as a powerful warrior. Given the limitations of TV series, it was probably the most effective way to get the point across.
As for Theon, it was meant to highlight his weaknesses. |
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WadRUG'naDoo
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| tatertot wrote: |
| I really felt that the last episode was just not realistic (I know it's a fantasy series, but bear with me). I rolled my eyes when Stannis was the first person up the first ladder. It was pretty absurd that people kept getting cut in half, too. I think I really liked the first season because it was "realistic" (within the constraints of the world), but the second season has been a total let down for me. |
Well, I've read that in Japan they used to test new swords for sharpness by cutting dead bodies (or a very unfortunate slave) in half from shoulder to waist. Could a longsword have cut through a body? I don't see why not if the swordsman was skilled. |
Or how about dragons and shapeshifters? Could they have existed?
I felt the same way while watching The Avengers the other night. Little far-fetched to believe that Bruce Banner was belted by gamma rays and turned into The Hulk. Come on! |
My comment went right over your head.
I find irony in complaints about one of the few things in this TV show which could be plausible since it also has dragons and sorcerers. |
Nothing went over my head. Was referring to the person you quoted.
Hulk smash. |
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tatertot
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| tatertot wrote: |
| I really felt that the last episode was just not realistic (I know it's a fantasy series, but bear with me). I rolled my eyes when Stannis was the first person up the first ladder. It was pretty absurd that people kept getting cut in half, too. I think I really liked the first season because it was "realistic" (within the constraints of the world), but the second season has been a total let down for me. |
Well, I've read that in Japan they used to test new swords for sharpness by cutting dead bodies (or a very unfortunate slave) in half from shoulder to waist. Could a longsword have cut through a body? I don't see why not if the swordsman was skilled. |
Or how about dragons and shapeshifters? Could they have existed?
I felt the same way while watching The Avengers the other night. Little far-fetched to believe that Bruce Banner was belted by gamma rays and turned into The Hulk. Come on! |
My comment went right over your head.
I find irony in complaints about one of the few things in this TV show which could be plausible since it also has dragons and sorcerers. |
Nothing went over my head. Was referring to the person you quoted.
Hulk smash. |
I'm kind of disappointed that you guys (intentionally?) misunderstood my point. Sure, magic and dragons don't exist, so we suspend our disbelief for the show. I just think that the show would have been more "realistic" if people weren't getting chopped cleanly in half. If the guys who were cutting people in half were giants, then we could further suspend our disbelief and it would make sense that they were chopping people in half. However, they were just normal people, and normal people can't do that. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, the world Martin created was supposed to be fairly realistic despite its fantasy elements. Having dragons doesn't automatically turn people into supermen. You don't see humans flying around and shooting lazers out of their eyes because that would be unrealistic within that particular world. Its why a trained Dothraki warrior wasn't able to cut through Jorah's armor in an earlier episode.
As for Stannis going up the ladder, not sure why that would be unrealistic. I think it showed what kind of man Stannis is. Leaders have fought at the head of their forces in history as well. |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
All the minor, seemingly random sex scenes/activities also have a purpose. They give us an idea about the world in which GRRM has created, but also reminds us that the characters are still people. Listen to the way Cerci talks about sex and I think you'll get a better idea about this. |
The only scenes I didn't really care for were the ones with Ros or whatever her name is and Baelish's brothel, especially that one scene where he wipes sperm off that one *beep*'s face. I know its supposed to show what kind of person he is and whatnot but I feel like with so many things that happen in that world, they could've shown something a little more relevant to the major plot. |
Yeah, I'm sure they could have. I think that example is perhaps them pandering a bit: using sex to draw the audience while still getting their point across. But then again, they are dealing with at least 1100 pages or source material, so condensing things is to be expected, and that 5 second scene said a lot about Little Finger.
| tatertot wrote: |
I'm kind of disappointed that you guys (intentionally?) misunderstood my point. Sure, magic and dragons don't exist, so we suspend our disbelief for the show. I just think that the show would have been more "realistic" if people weren't getting chopped cleanly in half. If the guys who were cutting people in half were giants, then we could further suspend our disbelief and it would make sense that they were chopping people in half. However, they were just normal people, and normal people can't do that. |
I do get where you are coming from. If it helps at all, a few main players have magic weapons. They use Valyrian steal. It's supposed to be impossibly sharp and have spells cast in the steal. Does it completely explain how people are getting chopped in half? No, but it does help further suspend belief.
Actually, the world that GRRM created is supposed to be entirely realistic except for things related to Valyria which is a lost civilization that inhabited a far away land. All the dragons and magic originates from there. |
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wintermute
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
Yeah, the world Martin created was supposed to be fairly realistic despite its fantasy elements. Having dragons doesn't automatically turn people into supermen. You don't see humans flying around and shooting lazers out of their eyes because that would be unrealistic within that particular world. Its why a trained Dothraki warrior wasn't able to cut through Jorah's armor in an earlier episode.
As for Stannis going up the ladder, not sure why that would be unrealistic. I think it showed what kind of man Stannis is. Leaders have fought at the head of their forces in history as well. |
The first over the wall dies. It's not called the "forlorn hope" for nothing!
Not to mention he was going up the ladder with no helmet. All the defensive fire would be focused on him. He'd get a dozen arrows in the head then it would be exploded by a dropped rock!
It's just needlessly reckless. I don't think it is consistent with his character at all. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| tatertot wrote: |
| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| tatertot wrote: |
| I really felt that the last episode was just not realistic (I know it's a fantasy series, but bear with me). I rolled my eyes when Stannis was the first person up the first ladder. It was pretty absurd that people kept getting cut in half, too. I think I really liked the first season because it was "realistic" (within the constraints of the world), but the second season has been a total let down for me. |
Well, I've read that in Japan they used to test new swords for sharpness by cutting dead bodies (or a very unfortunate slave) in half from shoulder to waist. Could a longsword have cut through a body? I don't see why not if the swordsman was skilled. |
Or how about dragons and shapeshifters? Could they have existed?
I felt the same way while watching The Avengers the other night. Little far-fetched to believe that Bruce Banner was belted by gamma rays and turned into The Hulk. Come on! |
My comment went right over your head.
I find irony in complaints about one of the few things in this TV show which could be plausible since it also has dragons and sorcerers. |
Nothing went over my head. Was referring to the person you quoted.
Hulk smash. |
I'm kind of disappointed that you guys (intentionally?) misunderstood my point. Sure, magic and dragons don't exist, so we suspend our disbelief for the show. I just think that the show would have been more "realistic" if people weren't getting chopped cleanly in half. If the guys who were cutting people in half were giants, then we could further suspend our disbelief and it would make sense that they were chopping people in half. However, they were just normal people, and normal people can't do that. |
Sure, but the tradition of exaggerating what can be done with a sword dates to when fantasy novels were considered news stories. Read The Song of Roland, for example. In the version I read someone is split from skull to groin with one blow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Roland |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Based in watching every episode of Deadliest Warrior, I think it is actually possible for one man to cleave another in half. |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| wintermute wrote: |
It's just needlessly reckless. I don't think it is consistent with his character at all. |
It's 100% consistent with Stannis' character. Stannis is a born fighter and combat leader. He is terrible at all other aspects of leading. It's the complete opposite of his brother Renly.
Stannis is quite reckless throughout the book/story. Stannis is completely invested in the righteousness of his cause. He even thinks that he is the reincarnation of a godlike being that is destined to save the world from the coming darkness. He probably believes that he cannot die until he has sat the iron throne and defeated the darkness. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Well, the finale was interesting. The House of the Undying was a little underwhelming but it worked. It looks like they're trying to speed up Dany's story line. |
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rabidcake
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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I can't wait so long. I want the next book, I want the third season. I must wait soooooo loooooooong.
For all of you who finished reading a Dance with Dragons, talk about ending the book with too many cliff-hangers. Do i really need to wait 5 years for the next one?? |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| rabidcake wrote: |
I can't wait so long. I want the next book, I want the third season. I must wait soooooo loooooooong.
For all of you who finished reading a Dance with Dragons, talk about ending the book with too many cliff-hangers. Do i really need to wait 5 years for the next one?? |
GRRM has released a few chapters of the next book, that might help satiate your needs a bit. Also, there's a huge SOIAF forum that talks about the books. When I'm really really bored I sometimes venture over there and read people's theories about what's to come. That might help you.
I was underwhelmed by the finale of the second season. Though I was happy to see Drogo again. I hope that that is a sign that he'll appear more. |
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