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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks Comm, it's great to find out there are a few reasonable people on here. Peace out. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| Older people are definitely different. I've been threatened to be disowned by family members a couple times if I ever marry a non Korean. So yeah. So much for family love. |
From my independent, American Caucasian perspective, that sounds like they care more about the image of you than they care about you. I'd give those family members the finger and avoid them regardless of who I marry.
| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| Yeah, my Korean friend told me there are no gays in Korea so it's a non-issue. |
I disagree with you sometimes Kimchi, but I do think you've got a unique perspective to bring to the board that most of the NETs here can't get... Keep the anecdotes coming  |
Comm, you've never heard that canard? Perhaps it's because I've spent a lot of time hanging out with gay guys in Korea, but I literally can't count the number of times Korean people have either said that there are no gays in Korea or that my friends are the first gays they've ever met. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
When my wife and I were first dating... she got "the warning" from coworkers about dating foreigners. After we married, it stopped... and after having a kid, I get nothing but over-attention on subways and such.
People point at us, people call us "Americans" and such, but no one has walked over to us and challenged why we are together.
It'd have to be a seriously hard racist to walk up to a family and do that. |
I'm glad you've been able to avoid that. The ajossi walking up to you can be completely random and unpredictible. As for the rest of my story, here's the link and I rest my case.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=220385 |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Comm, you've never heard that canard? Perhaps it's because I've spent a lot of time hanging out with gay guys in Korea, but I literally can't count the number of times Korean people have either said that there are no gays in Korea or that my friends are the first gays they've ever met. |
Not directly from a Korean, no. But then the topic hasn't come up often.
On the topic of homosexual love, my girlfriend said she didn't know "if it was real", but I think she realizes that there are plenty of gay men in Korea. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
From my independent, American Caucasian perspective, that sounds like they care more about the image of you than they care about you. I'd give those family members the finger and avoid them regardless of who I marry.
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Well, for sure. I stopped considering them real family the moment they said that.
| Quote: |
| On the topic of homosexual love, my girlfriend said she didn't know "if it was real", but I think she realizes that there are plenty of gay men in Korea. |
Maybe since I'm Korean myself, I never really met anybody say there are no gay people in Korean personally. Although one of my middle school teachers did blame black people for homosexuality for some reason, and I did meet plenty of Christians who are against gay people in general. Actually, the topic never really comes up anyway, so I rarely ever talk about gay issues with other Koreans. I do think Koreans are less willing to admit the faults (or what they perceive as faults) of their country to foreigners though. Perhaps it's human nature but I think it's more of an Asian thing of saving face as I met plenty of Americans rag on their country in front of foreigners.
This whole thing reminds me of the Japanese kids I knew at my old university in the US. Most of them were exchange students along with some kids straight out of Japanese highschool. Most of them feinted ignorance when we (the Korean and Chinese kids) talked about WWII, although we didn't talk about it a lot of out of fear things might get awkward. I also asked them some Japanese swear words and they denied that such things existed in Japan, which amazed me because, how does a language not have any bad words?
When I talked to another Japanese guy who was much more honest about himself and his culture (a little older, open-minded, hippyish, backpacking type guy) he said, "Of course there are bad words in Japanese." And when I asked him about WWII and the occupation, he also said, "Of course I know about that. Most Japanese people these days know what happened during WWII." Mindblown.
Anyway, I highly doubt most Koreans really think gay people don't exist in Korea. It's just that most of them probably won't admit it to you foreign folk unless they're one of those open-minded Koreans. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
What a surprise. The famous line, "no gays in Korea," again uttered by a group of foreigners. I'm sure there are few old-school Koreans who might claim this, but honestly I've never heard it during the many years I've lived here.
I've heard about plenty of gay couples from Korean friends. Even met one very nice gay Korean couple who talked candidly about a thriving gay scene in Seoul. I've seen Korean dramas and movies about gay/lesbian issues, but I've never heard a Korean say "There are no gays in Korea." On this forum, I've seen it many many times. Makes me wonder just exactly who believes this? Or maybe it's just the type of thing that some foreigners expect, or hope, or maybe even want Koreans to believe?
Anyway, it's BS. There are PLENTY of gays in Korea. And Koreans know it too. |
They're being sarcastic. I once brought up that idea with some Koreans that Westerners were associated with having gay people and not Korea and that that idea was promoted in the past. I discussed with some college students. They didn't deny it, but they seemed to be somewhat open-minded on the issue of gay people with some exceptions. I get the impression that Korea is much more open about gay people in 2012. I can believe that Koreans in the past would have denied that homosexuality is also something in Korean. There are societies that have blamed Westerners for encouraging homosexuality. The Middle East is one example of this, and these old-timers who repeat what you're disagreeing with probably heard such ideas back in the day.
We should keep in mind that most states in the US ban gay marriage. That's been changing gradually. Many religious people say it's simply a choice and bad life-style and are in denial. I can't think of any Asian country where gay marriage is legal. I think as it spreads in the U.S., it would also spread to other countries. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
What a surprise. The famous line, "no gays in Korea," again uttered by a group of foreigners. I'm sure there are few old-school Koreans who might claim this, but honestly I've never heard it during the many years I've lived here.
I've heard about plenty of gay couples from Korean friends. Even met one very nice gay Korean couple who talked candidly about a thriving gay scene in Seoul. I've seen Korean dramas and movies about gay/lesbian issues, but I've never heard a Korean say "There are no gays in Korea." On this forum, I've seen it many many times. Makes me wonder just exactly who believes this? Or maybe it's just the type of thing that some foreigners expect, or hope, or maybe even want Koreans to believe?
Anyway, it's BS. There are PLENTY of gays in Korea. And Koreans know it too. |
They're being sarcastic. However, one poster just said that someone in 1996 insisted that there weren't gay people in Korea. According to wikipedia, there was very little awareness of gay people in the early 1990s in Korea. That started changing significantly in the late 1990s. Korea has had many shows and celebrities where homosexuality is featured, so things are definitely different. Anyway, people in the US in many areas are rather anti-gay marriage. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Koreans thought they were no gays in Korea in the 90's?
Back then, I pointed out a guy dressed in a tight suit, man purse under his arm, to my friend and asked if she would ever consider dating a guy who dresses like that. Her response? "That guy!? No. He's gay."
No, I think people just didn't give it much of a thought because they didn't know of anyone who was openly gay (a friend, an acquaintance, or a celebrity).
Yes, awareness isn't really there, but people know there are gays. Just last semester, I had to tell two of my students to change a line in a dialogue they had prepared because it might be offensive to some students in their class since a few might be gay. |
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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| What a surprise. The famous line, "no gays in Korea," again uttered by a group of foreigners. |
Really? I usually hear this line uttered by Koreans. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| sojusucks wrote: |
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| What a surprise. The famous line, "no gays in Korea," again uttered by a group of foreigners. |
Really? I usually hear this line uttered by Koreans. |
Really? What kind of Koreans do you usually hear utter this phrase? Young/Old/Employee/Student? Do they say it in English?
I understand that, here, when somebody posts something along the lines of there being no gays in Korea, it's a kind of sarcasm. Something quaint that we assume some Koreans might think, because of a lack of education or awareness, but we don't get too worked up about it. It's not really their fault for having such old-fashioned beliefs.
But we get ever so worked up when Koreans assume that we can't chopsticks. When Koreans assume that we can't handle spicy food. And when Koreans assume that we can't learn/use their language appropriately. It's labelled microaggression, racism or some other such BS. And yet we fling around the similar assumptions about them. Just a little ironic in my opinion. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| But we get ever so worked up when Koreans assume that we can't chopsticks. When Koreans assume that we can't handle spicy food. And when Koreans assume that we can't learn/use their language appropriately. It's labelled microaggression, racism or some other such BS. And yet we fling around the similar assumptions about them. Just a little ironic in my opinion. |
But do we talk to them like that?
When someone says "Oh! I'm surprised you can use chopsticks so well!" I doubt many of us reply "Oh! Did you know there are gay men in Korea?". |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| sojusucks wrote: |
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| What a surprise. The famous line, "no gays in Korea," again uttered by a group of foreigners. |
Really? I usually hear this line uttered by Koreans. |
Really? What kind of Koreans do you usually hear utter this phrase? Young/Old/Employee/Student? Do they say it in English?
I understand that, here, when somebody posts something along the lines of there being no gays in Korea, it's a kind of sarcasm. Something quaint that we assume some Koreans might think, because of a lack of education or awareness, but we don't get too worked up about it. It's not really their fault for having such old-fashioned beliefs.
But we get ever so worked up when Koreans assume that we can't chopsticks. When Koreans assume that we can't handle spicy food. And when Koreans assume that we can't learn/use their language appropriately. It's labelled microaggression, racism or some other such BS. And yet we fling around the similar assumptions about them. Just a little ironic in my opinion. |
I've heard it from adjossis in the Seoul area on multiple occasions, either in the form of "no gays in Korea" or telling my buddies that they are the first gays they've ever encountered. This is one I picked up through firsthand experience, not hearsay. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| sojusucks wrote: |
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| What a surprise. The famous line, "no gays in Korea," again uttered by a group of foreigners. |
Really? I usually hear this line uttered by Koreans. |
Really? What kind of Koreans do you usually hear utter this phrase? Young/Old/Employee/Student? Do they say it in English?
I understand that, here, when somebody posts something along the lines of there being no gays in Korea, it's a kind of sarcasm. Something quaint that we assume some Koreans might think, because of a lack of education or awareness, but we don't get too worked up about it. It's not really their fault for having such old-fashioned beliefs.
But we get ever so worked up when Koreans assume that we can't chopsticks. When Koreans assume that we can't handle spicy food. And when Koreans assume that we can't learn/use their language appropriately. It's labelled microaggression, racism or some other such BS. And yet we fling around the similar assumptions about them. Just a little ironic in my opinion. |
I've heard it from adjossis in the Seoul area on multiple occasions, either in the form of "no gays in Korea" or telling my buddies that they are the first gays they've ever encountered. This is one I picked up through firsthand experience, not hearsay. |
Oh, come on. I've never met anyone from Andorra, but I know they exist. Have you discussed this with them in Korean? You'd be surprised how much things get lost in translation. What they may be expressing is not ignorance of the fact there are gays but rather intolerance towards them.
Just look what I found on Google News:
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/south-korea-celebrates-gay-pride310512
Hard to deny there are gays in Korea if they hold a parade, don't you think? I believe there is also at least one yearly gay and lesbian movie festival.
Last edited by 12ax7 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:08 am Post subject: |
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The assertion was that this is something foreigners have invented to make Koreans look bad. This clearly isn't the case, considering that I've heard it from Koreans on many occasions. What their intentions are with those statements is up for debate, but really, as I've said, two of my best friends in Korea are gay, and we've heard comments like the above on more occasions than we can count; it's clearly not a foreigners' invention.
As for the gay pride parade, I'd be surprised if many people know about that, what with the 2,000 people who attend in a country of 50,000,000 (many of them foreigners). |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| The assertion was that this is something foreigners have invented to make Koreans look bad. This clearly isn't the case, considering that I've heard it from Koreans on many occasions. |
OK maybe that assertion was a little OTT, I'll hold my hands up to that as I want to give people credit and not discount anybodies experiences.
But I'm really curious about the conditions when people have heard it. I'm guessing it's usually from old Ajosshi types. Do they approach foreigners at random on the street, proclaiming Korea to be gay-free? Do they wear T-shirts with it printed on (bi-lingually)? Are people asking them for directions to the gay bar, only to be met with this kind of reply? Perhaps they are co-workers/family members (for the married posters)?
As a previous poster said, a lot could be lost in translation. If an old guy were to mumble, "No gay Korea," then it could mean a few different things. For example, it could mean, "I don't want/like gays in Korea." It could also mean, "No more gays in Korea please, we have enough." It could even mean, "I don't think Korea is a good place to be gay." I have heard Koreans express these feelings during my time here, primarily among my adult students and Korean friends. But as I've said before, I've never heard a Korean person say, "There are no gays in Korea." Just speculation on my part. |
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