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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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 Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I know teachers that have been here for years to decades and still have not amassed anything near six figures. |
In fairness, the OP said 'five figures.' That's not too hard. I will save well into five figures after 2 years here, and that's with 3 vacations a year and decent spending month-to-month both here and transfers home.
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| we all have seen the posts of how the school controls vacation. |
True, but even in my first year when I had a horrible controlling CT who enforced deskwarming down to the letter every day, I still got 18 days total paid leave by contract. With holidays it was easily enough for multiple international vacations.
As for the cars and electronics, let's not be unfair. He probably mainly meant Hyundai, not Kia. And they are really excellent cars generally speaking. The Elantra got Car of the Year at NAIAS, which isn't an easy thing to win. I plan to buy one when I get back. And Samsung has been lapping Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba and most of Japan's old all-stars for years now. LG is becoming a top player in white goods/appliances. A lot of consumer products the Koreans really do pretty well. Very stylish and well-marketed, with good features and competitive pricing.
Notwithstanding this, I still feel the country is mediocre and insular for living. There's a big gap between the products it makes and the reality of life here. That OP should over-idealize neither his past nor Korea. |
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ewlandon
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Location: teacher
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I make 7 figures a month working in Korea, not even my parents can say that. |
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teachyou1004
Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I miss Korea too. During the 90s, I taught illegally for 14-months after a contract ended. For about three of those months, I was completely off the radar from all family and friends. It was completely invigorating and I draw upon that period in my life constantly. It was pure adventure and the best thing I could have ever done for myself at that time. In retrospect, it could have been anywhere in the world, but since I was in Korea, I'm forever gonna miss that place/era. |
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NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with teachyou. A lot of the nostalgia is about the time in my life, not the place. I was 22 when I hit the ground in Seoul in 1999. It was my first time with money and freedom. First time to travel out of Canada.
Korea holds a ton of firsts for me; some fun, some interesting, and some downright X-rated! However, I've heard similar stories from friends who moved to Toronto for their first job after graduation. Toronto is their Seoul. They had all of those firsts there, that I had in Korea. They hold a special place in their hearts for T.O. like I do Seoul.
As much as I love Korea, I taught ESL so I could live there. I didnt live there to teach ESL. I left to try my hand at a new career in Canada. Went to college in a technical field and now have a great career in that same field. I identified a large industry with few professional training programs (only 1 college in Canada) and went for it. The big reason I did that is that I know I could probably be right back in a similar position, job and money wise, with ESL within a few months of returning to Korea. While it's good money and an easy/enjoyable job, there isn't a lot of growth or advancement.
I take home the same ammount of money today as I did during my last month in Korea. I work longer hours, but have health/dental/retirement plan too. Which is better? I don't know. At 35, Canada probably is. However, all I have to do is jump on a plane and I can go back whenever I want. Korea is my escape plan! |
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Zulethe
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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I miss Korea as well. For me, I really like a simple, uncomplicated life and Korea provided that. I recall some of my posts when I was over there and they where so carefree and whimsical, which was indicative of how I felt when I was there.
Now, back in America, I don't feel that way even though I have very few stressors. I have plenty of money in the bank, am going to graduate school which is paid for by the VA, and have nothing to complain about.
Yet I still long for Korea.
I can't recall who mentioned the family thing but that's a big thing that's keeping me here in America, and I would venture to guess that many others are feeling the same as well. I at times neglect to take my own advice.
If you are happier in Korea then go, pure and simple. Don't let your family play guilt trips on you. A family who truly cares about you would want you to be happy regardless of your geographical location.
If they are only concerned about their selfish gain of having you around, then you may well be better off without them.
Just because they're your family doesn't mean that your obligated to live a life of servitude just to make them happy. And let's not kid ourselves, staying in America, or any other country for that matter to appease one's parents is servitude. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I certainly miss Korea on a regular basis. I lived there a fairly long time and Korea is a large part of my life through marriage and interests.
I think it is normal to miss places where you lived before, especially if you had a good time there or did well there. My wife misses her homeland and hometown of Busan a lot which is also normal.
Mostly we miss the community feeling we had in our old neighborhood, the support network we had through her family and our friends, a lot of the food. There are aspects of my former work in Korea that I miss and my wife certainly misses her old job and her status at that old job, something she has yet to get here. |
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djmarcus
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
You sound like a very depressed person. Do you have any friends? I suggest going out with them.
And speak for yourself, I'd give anything to go back to the States where unfamiliar faces smile at me instead of scowl and where my wife and I can walk and be in peace instead of being scoffed at by strangers on the street and labeled dirty by the media. Where I can walk into any store and ask for help and understand everything everywhere I go.
Korea has some good things like good transportation and low crime, but there's no place like home, for me at least. |
I have to ask: what's stopping you from doing that here? Of course, communicating with people in your native language is always going to be easier and more enjoyable than trying to do so in a foreign language, but learning how to read Korean is fairly straightforward and memorizing at least a couple dozen grammar structures and vocabulary words is scarcely more difficult. And your wife is Korean, correct? I would think you'd be studying Korean at least somewhat fastidiously to be able to communicate with her family, unless your wife has parents who speak good English -- which is unlikely. In any case, you should be able to learn enough Korean to communicate in stores with a couple month's studying, provided you actually go out and apply what you study. |
There's no way I can possibly learn all that Korean with my schedule as busy as it is to be able to go into HomePlus and ask the person behind the counter what makes this electric shaver different than this one and understand all of their reply.
You have to be kidding implying that in some way it is just the same back home if I just study and learn a few phases and garble them out--most of times in which the person will just say, "Nae?" or laugh. I can do that, it's just understanding what's being said back to me that is the problem.
I was so relieved to go into the store and ask where something was when my wife and I went home to visit that I just started talking to the shop clerk for the hell of it because I could It felt so refreshing to communicate. What freedom it is to be able to communicate perfectly without a hint of confusion. Think about it, we spend all day not being understood or being spoke to not understanding. It's an agitating feeling.
Freely conversing at home just feels like a warm shirt right out of the drier--hmm, driers--something else I miss from home =( |
While reading through these threads, I just wanted to add some points to this particular post. I agree with Dodge7 but also want to point out that you don't converse with your father in law in Korean or any language. These is no kin-ship. You meet, eat, watch TV and go home. If there is anything to be said to each other, it would most likely be of major importance like, "I don't want you in our family". I speak from experience as well as having heard from Korean married men that this is the norm. It's just not like it is in the states where you come over for a sunday brunch and shoot-the-$hit with her old man. I wish it were like that.
So having said this, as far as family goes, no need to learn Korean. Learning basic survival Korean though is a must. Learning to converse in Korean can help but it is a long journey which can definitely be accomplished with right mind set, but not with a word a day method. But truly devoting yourself to learning the language + culture. It's not enough to know Korean grammar cause you can easily say the wrong thing to someone. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| djmarcus wrote: |
While reading through these threads, I just wanted to add some points to this particular post. I agree with Dodge7 but also want to point out that you don't converse with your father in law in Korean or any language. These is no kin-ship. You meet, eat, watch TV and go home. If there is anything to be said to each other, it would most likely be of major importance like, "I don't want you in our family". I speak from experience as well as having heard from Korean married men that this is the norm. It's just not like it is in the states where you come over for a sunday brunch and shoot-the-$hit with her old man. I wish it were like that.
So having said this, as far as family goes, no need to learn Korean. Learning basic survival Korean though is a must. Learning to converse in Korean can help but it is a long journey which can definitely be accomplished with right mind set, but not with a word a day method. But truly devoting yourself to learning the language + culture. It's not enough to know Korean grammar cause you can easily say the wrong thing to someone. |
Since I'm not married and I never watched how my grandfather on my mom's side interacted with my dad, I have very little experience on the matter. But my cousins' husbands seem to chat with my uncle, albiet a little bit. They may be the exception though since my cousins are also some of the few Korean moms I've seen who don't consider screaming at their kids good parenting.
My grandmother though likes to talk with her son-in-law. |
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djmarcus
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| djmarcus wrote: |
While reading through these threads, I just wanted to add some points to this particular post. I agree with Dodge7 but also want to point out that you don't converse with your father in law in Korean or any language. These is no kin-ship. You meet, eat, watch TV and go home. If there is anything to be said to each other, it would most likely be of major importance like, "I don't want you in our family". I speak from experience as well as having heard from Korean married men that this is the norm. It's just not like it is in the states where you come over for a sunday brunch and shoot-the-$hit with her old man. I wish it were like that.
So having said this, as far as family goes, no need to learn Korean. Learning basic survival Korean though is a must. Learning to converse in Korean can help but it is a long journey which can definitely be accomplished with right mind set, but not with a word a day method. But truly devoting yourself to learning the language + culture. It's not enough to know Korean grammar cause you can easily say the wrong thing to someone. |
Since I'm not married and I never watched how my grandfather on my mom's side interacted with my dad, I have very little experience on the matter. But my cousins' husbands seem to chat with my uncle, albiet a little bit. They may be the exception though since my cousins are also some of the few Korean moms I've seen who don't consider screaming at their kids good parenting.
My grandmother though likes to talk with her son-in-law. |
ah, good point! From a guy's perspective, being able to communicate with the mother-in-law can help a great deal. Actually, if the listening skill is developed, the only output that would be necessary is the honorable "neh" "neh". That's about as much as any in-law would expect from the husband regardless of language. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| djmarcus wrote: |
While reading through these threads, I just wanted to add some points to this particular post. I agree with Dodge7 but also want to point out that you don't converse with your father in law in Korean or any language. These is no kin-ship. You meet, eat, watch TV and go home. If there is anything to be said to each other, it would most likely be of major importance like, "I don't want you in our family". I speak from experience as well as having heard from Korean married men that this is the norm. It's just not like it is in the states where you come over for a sunday brunch and shoot-the-$hit with her old man. I wish it were like that.
So having said this, as far as family goes, no need to learn Korean. Learning basic survival Korean though is a must. Learning to converse in Korean can help but it is a long journey which can definitely be accomplished with right mind set, but not with a word a day method. But truly devoting yourself to learning the language + culture. It's not enough to know Korean grammar cause you can easily say the wrong thing to someone. |
I agree with you that learning Korean to a conversational level is a long and difficult task. But learning one word a day is better than throwing your hands up, saying it's too difficult, and not trying to learn Korean at all, which a fair number of people I've met here have done.
Also, in my experience, learning Korean is necessary to become part of your significant other's family. Perhaps my wife's parents are exceptional, but they both expect me to speak to them. As they don't speak English, the language of choice is, naturally, Korean. I can't imagine that non-Koreans could have good relationships with their husband's or wife's family without at least an intermediate level of Korean ability, unless all the family members speak English or something. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| As a white man it is pretty hard to integrate. It's not all in control of the individual. You'll still be a foreigner. |
Now imagine how the hundreds of thousands of people born in the US and Canada feel, constantly being looked at differently even though they've lived in their respective countries all their lives. That's one of the reasons why I'm moving to Korea in June. I just want to spend a few years knowing what it feels like to truly blend into the background.
I'm sorry that you feel that you're having trouble integrating, however realize that you're in Korea for a few years. I had to live with not blending in for 24 years. Others have for even longer periods of time. |
In a few years there will be white or half-white people born and raised in this country. At that point you can compare notes with them, but until then I don't think your situation and that of 'foreigners' living in SK are really comparable: it's both better and worse. Better, because, as a born and bred American/Canadian/whatever fully understand what's going on, and because people at least know they're not supposed to discriminate; worse, because you feel excluded in the place you actually belong to. |
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thebektionary
Joined: 11 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| OP, that's why I don't plan on going home anytime soon. I like it here too much and I find my job fulfilling. |
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soomin
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| djmarcus wrote: |
While reading through these threads, I just wanted to add some points to this particular post. I agree with Dodge7 but also want to point out that you don't converse with your father in law in Korean or any language. These is no kin-ship. You meet, eat, watch TV and go home. If there is anything to be said to each other, it would most likely be of major importance like, "I don't want you in our family". I speak from experience as well as having heard from Korean married men that this is the norm. It's just not like it is in the states where you come over for a sunday brunch and shoot-the-$hit with her old man. I wish it were like that.
So having said this, as far as family goes, no need to learn Korean. Learning basic survival Korean though is a must. Learning to converse in Korean can help but it is a long journey which can definitely be accomplished with right mind set, but not with a word a day method. But truly devoting yourself to learning the language + culture. It's not enough to know Korean grammar cause you can easily say the wrong thing to someone. |
Every family is different~ My fiance's parents talk to me and often tell me "Study harder so we can speak more!" and "I can't learn English, so you're going to have to get better at Korean"~ They are pretty quiet generally, but yesterday my future-mother-in-law gave a long speech about her marriage, life, God, and my future marriage... They also like when I speak with them (even in not-that-great Korean) and it definitely brings us closer... It will be different for everyone, and I'm sure it's different for men, but for my situation, I better keep hitting the books, lol. And, it's nice to converse in Korean with my fiance because it's his native tongue and it's more comfortable if he can speak in Korean~
If you're only going to be here for a year, survival Korean is enough... but if you're making an investment here and don't want to feel like a total outsider... make the time to study |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: <I MISS KOREA> |
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| bcjinseoul wrote: |
�It�s the littlest things I miss the most, despite all. Certain friends and faces, playing pool or darts at certain bars and places, seeing beautiful girlish Korean figures and their beautiful Korean faces, taking a taxi or train to buy an accessory or game, giving some new foreign hobby or meal a turn or a feel�other stuff, too, like having Turkish food in Itaewon before a round of drinks, or frequenting the hottest clubs in Hongdae.
I might sound like a newbie, but being early in my thirties, I guess I just haven�t mentally shifted gears and moved on yet. Why should I? It�s not like I�m happy or well off in my own country. Oh, and I sure miss visiting foreign countries and traveling the world. Once you get the travel bug in you, you just can�t shake it. There�s no such thing as outgrowing the travel bug, that�s for sure! |
Wasn�t sure which part I wanted to quote the most so just chose this part. Sounds like you�re having a bout of reverse culture shock. Always fun. And the longer you�re away from home, the harder it is to stay there after you�ve returned.
I hear you on your rant. I�d made three attempts to anchor myself back in the States after working in Japan, Taiwan, and my first stint in Korea, respectively, but I just couldn�t stay. I think once you�ve had a taste of living overseas, you can get stuck between worlds. But also, like you mentioned, there just aren�t (or weren�t, when I was back there) any jobs that seemed interesting or that were even full time, much less that paid benefits.
Certainly, I miss my friends and family back home, but really, we still have phones, letters, and Skype. And I can visit them on my vacations. And if the vacations aren�t long enough, heck, these are contract jobs. You can take some time off between contracts. No one here has ever scrutinized my employment gaps the way they do back in the US.
When my friends/family ask me why I don�t stay in America or when I�m coming back, I just say, �If I can get health benefits and pension for a job that I actually enjoy doing and I can have the unique life that living overseas offers, then I�ll come back.� It�s a bit facetious of me to say. I actually am working on my way to get back as I know the life expectancy of EFL employment is probably around 60 years old, and my friends/family do have a strong pull on me. But for now, I�m perfectly happy here.
By the way, I wouldn�t say it was a mistake for you to go back home. It sounds like you had some good reasons. But if you change your mind, you can always come back.
And if you want to stay in the US, I know people have done it. It�s a hard hump to get over, but it can be done. I would recommend a couple books; one is What Color Is Your Parachute? The other is Who Moved My Cheese? I�d read those when I got back from Japan and found them quite helpful. In some ways helped me to see why I wanted to come back here. But I also learned from trial and error back in the US why I didn�t want to stay there.
Anyway, good luck to you! |
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NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Everybody else's ddok looks bigger, as the Koreans say. When I'm home, I miss Korea. When I'm in Korea, I miss home. |
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