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Panda
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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"There is no compulsion in religion. Qur�aan 2:256. " That's pretty much every religion or Communist party says. We know growing up in an Islamic society doesn't necessarily mean you can't eat pork, you just can't get access to any pork is all.
Similarly, when I grew up, no one told me I was not allowed to believe in any religion, but there was just nothing religious around me.
Personally I don't like any kind of mass-media efforts to convert people (into atheist or religious), if you allow people to spread religious stuffs in public, it's brainwashing and intended to achieve some power that just benefit yourself.
A fair scenario would be, when you bring a priest to a country, you also bring an atheist and let them both speak to people, but which fool will do that? |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion. Rather, it means the State should permit religious practice whenever it does not conflict with facially neutral laws or regulations.
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In the USA freedom of religion means the state does not sponsor or favor any religion period. This also is taken to include freedom from religion meaning you do not have to be religious. It doesn't mean you have the right to grow up without religion being present, because that is not freedom of religion. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Gorf wrote: |
| Call me a die-hard atheist but sometimes I wish every government in the world would step on the neck of religion. It's 2012, get rid of the sky wizards who watch you poop, already! |
The most notable atheist regimes are the Soviet Union and China. Man's natural impulses and biology dictate that if you get rid of religion some ideology will take its place and perform the same functions.
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That's right and they will take over the functions of religion without the moral imperatives that tend to be taught by religions, at least Christianity. Islam and Judaism. I won't say anymore about the philosophies that brought Mao and Stalin and some others to mess up thier countries. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Panda wrote: |
"There is no compulsion in religion. Qur�aan 2:256. " That's pretty much every religion or Communist party says. We know growing up in an Islamic society doesn't necessarily mean you can't eat pork, you just can't get access to any pork is all.
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There's pork in the Muslim world: Buying Pork in Dubai
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| It is one of the ironies of life that, having moved to the Islamic Middle East, I end up consuming more (and better pork) than I ever did in the US or Japan. This Pork Shop is enormous � larger than a Japanese convenience store � and has stunning variety that includes more than 20 types of dried sausages, 12 types of liver p�t�, dozens of types of bacon, and countless other types of cuts and chops. |
| Panda wrote: |
| Similarly, when I grew up, no one told me I was not allowed to believe in any religion, but there was just nothing religious around me. |
You're not the only one who is ignorant of religion. You like anecdotes, so here's one a Hui lawyer told me once:
She was studying for the Chinese lawyer license examination, and like many Chinese, she took a special examination course to prepare. The teacher, like American bar prep instructors, would sometimes soften the tedium with a joke. One time, he opted for a witty Seinfeld-like observation: why is it that Hui Muslims refuse to eat pork; do they worship swine?
Now, it didn't bother the Hui so much that one Han made an ignorant comment. What bothered her was the laughter that resounded through the room, a collection of her future colleagues (well, 20% of them would pass) and members of the Chinese bar.
(and before you interject that she only passed the national bar exam because she was Hui; unlike the gaokao, the Chinese bar examination requires even minorities to achieve the same score to practice nation-wide in China, just as Han would).
These ignorant Han had confused Hindu respect for cows with Muslim disgust for swine. And these were supposedly highly educated students, not some nongmin fresh from the countryside.
This is what I meant by condescension towards minorities. Although they have 5,000 years of history, many Han (even the Chinese educated; aka 中国共产党洗脑了) choose to draw almost entirely upon 'knowledge' from the last 60 years.
Anyway, the statement from the Qu'ran is true. There can be no compulsion in religion. You cannot force someone to believe in Islam anymore than the CCP can force people to become Communist Party members. Whether the Islamic world has followed that truth is another matter entirely.
When Deng Xiaoping opened China to the world, he likely hoped to inspire a Golden Age not seen since the height of the T'ang Dynasty. But what made the T'ang Chinese glorious were their openness to the world, and genuine curiosity about other cultures and the art and the science. Based on my conversations with Han, both in China and here back in America, the only-child little Emperors seem uninterested in foreign cultures, except insofar as it pertains directly to China. There's a kind of Qing arrogance to Chinese relations with other regional neighbors, and some Ming disinterest towards the rest of the world. But mostly, its Communist 'whatever-is-Chinese-is-an-internal-matter-which-doesn't-impact-you,' with an ever expanding sense of entitlement as to what constitutes the exclusively Chinese domain.
Thus, the problems in Xinjiang. |
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