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Start an ESL career in your late 30's and afford retirement
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Dodge7



Joined: 21 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddycakes wrote:
If you're going to stay long-term, marry a K-girl and start your own hogwan.

There are waygooks in Korea who have become very wealthy off the hogwan biz.


I would not recommend staying in Korea long-term as a worker bee, albeit in a hogwan, public school or uni (most wind up in Uni's).

As the foreigner, you're always going to be on the bottom of the totem pole in any Korean work environment, and you generally won't make much money unless you game your schedule to maximize privates.


Sure, there are a couple exceptions, but they represent the 0.01 percent.

Also, Tompatz said you can be 'middle class.'.

That's sorta true... middle class by Korean terms, but you won't be middle class by western terms.

It would be nearer the truth to say you'll be lower middle class in actual reality.

But, at the end of the day, if you have no options back home, then even if you're just the ESL grunt at some uni, you're still doing better than the call center worker back home in the US.

That can easily crash and burn, too. There is no surefire way to be wealthy in Korea, and I imagine there are twice as many bankrupt foreigner-owned hagwons out there than successful ones.
I do wonder what the best business venture is for foreigners in Korea, though. Franchisee? Daycare/kindergarten? Hagwon? Anyone have any numbers on that?
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schwa



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Owning a hagwon certainly isnt a license to print money. Govt regs set caps on tuition & enrollment.
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teaching in Korea long term turns a more than average percentage of men into alcoholics. It's so much fun, but on the other hand - bad for your body.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of options...

Teach and network. This can lead to to better paying positions with lower hours (if you have the qualifications) but also open doors to things like consulting, editing...

You can also consider starting a business (esp if you get a F-visa) and earning a living from that.

Korea can be expensive but it also can be a good place to save. With a family it becomes harder because education can cost you a lot in K-land.

Can you work and retire debt free by your early 60s? Sure you can.

Can you start in Korea and branch out to other places as you gain experience? Indeed you can.

It will really depend on your qualifications...

Are you a certified teacher?

That boosts your "employability" and your income potential.

Do you have degrees in a related field (TEFL-ESL related), esp a MA?

That can boost your job potential as well as you earning potential.

Did you or will you learn Korean?

That can be a huge advantage in Korea if you do intend on staying there long term.

Basically, as Ttom said you will need to network, attend workshops and conferences. I would add that you absolutely need to upgrade your qualifications as time goes by as that keeps you ahead of the curve.

Lots of people (some on here) have done exceedingly well in Korea so it can be done.


Feel free to pm me if you want to discuss this further and good luck. I do understand your move or your intention to move very well. A friend of mine who was in Korea years ago (he left in 2002ish) is going back this year. Job market changed on him and his family in Canada and he will be out of work soon.

Anyway, best of luck.
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Zulethe



Joined: 04 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP, I'll give you my two cents. Mind you, I'm a devout existentialist.

I'm in a similar situation save the lack of money.

At the end of your life when you're sitting on your death bed, which decision will have meaning for you?

Will you be financially well off but regretting the decision not to return to Korea?

Or will you be broke, beat down, but content knowing that you chose the path that you wanted? (worst case scenario not necessarily saying you have to be broke or beat down).

When you gravitate towards something there is usually a reason.

I'm going to finish my MSW this spring and then it's back overseas.
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happiness



Joined: 04 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no debt, i have a roth, and its possible ill reach a million by 60.
ive done my damndest to avoid any debt. i think thats the key..
but even then, i know ill never retire. id be bored to death.

who retires nowadays, we have tons more free time than our parents did.
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No_hite_pls



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

happiness wrote:

who retires nowadays, we have tons more free time than our parents did.


Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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swashbuckler



Joined: 20 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
A friend of mine who was in Korea years ago (he left in 2002ish) is going back this year. Job market changed on him and his family in Canada and he will be out of work soon.

Anyway, best of luck.


Yep, if you can't 'make it' back home or life throws you a curve ball, there's always an English teacher clown job waiting for you in a hagwon or elementary school somewhere in Korea.
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No_hite_pls



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swashbuckler wrote:
PatrickGHBusan wrote:
A friend of mine who was in Korea years ago (he left in 2002ish) is going back this year. Job market changed on him and his family in Canada and he will be out of work soon.

Anyway, best of luck.


Yep, if you can't 'make it' back home or life throws you a curve ball, there's always an English teacher clown job waiting for you in a hagwon or elementary school somewhere in Korea.


Yep, if you have an University degree, clean health check, clean background check, TESOL Certification, willing to fly 10,000 km from your friends and family and are willing to work for less than $25,000 a year then I guess what you wrote is true.
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm not a financial planner, but I would say you should have financial goals. You should have an emergency fund. That could be as little as 2 months worth of salary in savings. Preferably, it should be about 3 months worth of savings. Pay more than the minimum on your debt. Once you've built up your emergency fund, keep on saving but much less and focus on paying off your debt. If you want, start investing a little money to where you're investing a little each month. That could be as little as $150 dollars a month. Don't wait until you've paid everything off before investing.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swashbuckler wrote:
PatrickGHBusan wrote:
A friend of mine who was in Korea years ago (he left in 2002ish) is going back this year. Job market changed on him and his family in Canada and he will be out of work soon.

Anyway, best of luck.


Yep, if you can't 'make it' back home or life throws you a curve ball, there's always an English teacher clown job waiting for you in a hagwon or elementary school somewhere in Korea.


Sure or for people like my friend a pretty damn good job since he has a related degree and some valuable experience. He sure is not going back to playing bingo at a Hakwon....
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silkhighway



Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No_hite_pls wrote:
swashbuckler wrote:
PatrickGHBusan wrote:
A friend of mine who was in Korea years ago (he left in 2002ish) is going back this year. Job market changed on him and his family in Canada and he will be out of work soon.

Anyway, best of luck.


Yep, if you can't 'make it' back home or life throws you a curve ball, there's always an English teacher clown job waiting for you in a hagwon or elementary school somewhere in Korea.


Yep, if you have an University degree, clean health check, clean background check, TESOL Certification, willing to fly 10,000 km from your friends and family and are willing to work for less than $25,000 a year then I guess what you wrote is true.


I got a chuckle at this.

I don't know...over 35 with over 50K in debt..I think you need to be realistic about what you can do. Unless you built that debt up getting your PhD in linguistics, than doing a career teaching ESL and then affording a 'retirement', at least in the traditional sense, is probably not going to be among your options. It will be extremely hard if you're single and downright impossible if you have a family. ESL is also a game where youth is idolized and you're always on one year contracts.

If you're in dire financial straits right now, maybe the best thing to do is try to declare bankruptcy or take steps before that where your debts are reduced and consolidated. If you take the legal steps to take care of your debt and still decide to come to Korea, at least you know you can start building your credit again if you return home and you won't have the 50K debt hanging over you like a prison sentence.
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silkhighway



Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more thing..things like "learning Korean" or "upgrading qualifications" should not be factored in your decision, because they are based on huge assumptions that you will have the time, resources, and natural inclination to do those things. Especially if you have been in Korea a few years before and didn't do it then. You should assume that any upgrading that happens will at best, keep up with where you are now employability-wise.
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Zulethe



Joined: 04 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People keep harping on debt...who cares? Does it really affect your mind if you'er 1 dollar or one million dollars in debt?

Debt is a social construct that our society has taught us to worry about.

Really think about it...would your life really change that much if you had no debt?

Only if you let it.

So you spend 30 years to pay off your debt and then die. Or you live your life with debt and enjoy yourself to the end.

I feel exactly the same now that I have significant savings than when I was broke...to be totally honest I had less stress when I was broke...having money is what stresses me out.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zulethe wrote:
People keep harping on debt...who cares? Does it really affect your mind if you'er 1 dollar or one million dollars in debt?

Debt is a social construct that our society has taught us to worry about.

Really think about it...would your life really change that much if you had no debt?

Only if you let it.

So you spend 30 years to pay off your debt and then die. Or you live your life with debt and enjoy yourself to the end.

I feel exactly the same now that I have significant savings than when I was broke...to be totally honest I had less stress when I was broke...having money is what stresses me out.


Great then give us your money and go back in debt. You will feel better.
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