Korean Job Discussion Forums

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Zed]

Well, who are you talking about, exactly? Some? Who? Who are these people that are encouraging someone to go get a fake degree and at the same time aggravated by the level of cheating prevalent in their classrooms? Who?

[Draven]

[Ryst Helmut]

The Chinese have been concerned about cheating for longer than most civilizations have been in existence. Over 2,000 years ago, prospective Chinese civil servants were given entrance exams in individual cubicles to prevent cheating, and searched for crib notes as they entered the cubicles. the penalty for being caught at cheating in ancient China was not a failing grade or expulsion, but death, which was applicable to both the examinees and examiners (Brickman, W.W. (1961). Ethics, examinations, and education. School and Society, 89, 412-15.

I've been reading a couple of empirical studies lately, on the topic of cheating, and have realised (derr) that Koreans don't have a monopoly on academic dishonesty. Also, this dishonesty is in the eye of the beholder, and is culturally skewed. Russians, for example, do not take academic dishonesty as seriously as their American counterparts (Lupton, R., Chapman, K., 2002). Other countries, however, do seem to partake in cheating more than others (curious what measures and tools would be used to gage this).


Oh, and not everyone cheats, not even if they were given the answers to the test and left alone.

Shoosh,

Ryst

[Skippy]

I remember this being talked about a few months ago. Some one made the comment that Koreans like to work communally a bit. So group of students will work together on assignments. Consider this for a test. Put two or three students togother. But reiterate that talking and sharing with other groups will not be tolerated. You will likely see a reduction in cheating.

As to my view. Cheating is everywhere. Hell I cheated. But here in Korea it seems more common and open face. Cheating in North American it is shameful to a degree if caught you are chaught and shamed. But it seem shere in Korea if you are got it "oh everybody does it or they were doing what children do". Lets not forget copying here in Korea and Plagerism.

Also consider just taking the test at the moment of cheating and say this is your mark from that point.

Skippy

[Draven]

As an addendum to the story, I'll say that the cheaters in my classes have turned out to be rather honest cheaters, actually. I've been confronting students that had identical, ridiculous answers to questions, and one moron who submitted a paper that had 3 different colours of ink and wildly varying handwriting. So far, everybody has fessed up; there has been no protestations of innocence in the face of the evidence.

Further, the instigator of the cheating has always tried to take all the blame so that their co-conspirator won't also get a zero grade. A fruitless exercise, of course, but pretty admirable in a way.

My last of 10 classes takes the exam tomorrow. So far I've busted 9 paper switchers and 4 who've confessed after the fact. The fact that there's probably a ton more who are going to get away with it hasn't escaped me. But hopefully the word's gotten out to this last class and there won't be any attempts.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Draven]

[CanadaCommando]

Since I was a large advocate of not turning over to the fake degree guy to immigration, I must assume that UrbanMyth's comments against Teachers are directed if not at me, then at people like me.

I disagree with cheating. I ALSO disagree with coming over on a fake degree. In my arguements, I NEVER said I thought it was cool to come in on a forged ID. I merely said that I also didn't think it was cool to turn him over to immigration for it:

[TJ]

I am one of the older generation and when I was at school (in Australia) very few, if any, students cheated in exams. Much later when I was a (very) mature age student an Australian university some students cheated. More recently I supervised high school exams, again in Australia, and witnessed only a very few attempting to cheat.

Here in Korea I have taught in hagwans, elementary school, middle school and first year university. Unfortunately I find that cheating at all levels is endemic. Even Korean university professors cheat.

It doesn't make me very popular but I clamp down on cheating wherever and whenever I come across it. I refuse to give a pass mark to those caught cheating. If the Korean teachers want to do it that's up to them but I refuse to lower my standards.

Incidentally, I was given a fake TESOL certificate by a well meaning friend but have refused to use that as well.

Call me old fashioned if you like but I will not lower my standards. Unfortunately my morals have cost me money in the form of a lower salary because I didn't use my fake certificate. On the positive side, I don't have any trouble sleeping at night.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[quote="DravenAnyhow, in the spirit of harmony, I'll concede that I shouldn't have used the word all. It was just wrong, wrong, wrong. My bad. Can we move on now?
[/quote]

Now that you have apologized for the libel, we can.

[Draven]

I enjoy the way you're doing whatever you can to avoid talking about the issue I tried (notice the past tense) to raise with you. It's laughable.

I tried to engage you in a meaningful discussion. Thanks for making it pointless.

So, I guess it's safe to assume you're not going to support your assertions at all.

Turnabout being fair play and all, here's an assertion for you but don't expect me to back it up. Some people here think you're a troll. As I used the magical quantifier 'some,' it absolves me of all responsibility of my comments and therefore I don't need to support them.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Draven]

Blah, blah, blah. More dancing around the issue from TheUrbanMyth.


I'm done with you. You've shown that you're not worth the effort to reply to, so I won't.

[TheUrbanMyth]

Bottom line: You lied and got called on it. End of story.