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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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 Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Beyond a few staples - everything then is not a "need". Shoot, these Seoulites could be walking to work!!
Alongway, your logic is flawed if you don't think a 40,000,000 should be factored into the cost of living somewhere. |
The point was that a car doesn't have to factor as much into the cost of living in an area with exceptional transit as one that doesn't have that.
And how would you factor in the 40 million? The absolute worst you could do would be to claim you are out the 0.5% interest you might get if you kept that money in the bank.
I wouldn't factor the deposit of an apartment in the west into the cost of living because that is money you get back. The rental scheme is not remotely the same. So trying to compare them as they've done on that site is just stupid.
It is not money you lose or actually spend, so why should it be figured into your costs? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
Because you get the 40 million back when your leave the place?
When you pay $1500 a month into an apartment in North America, what do you get back when you leave? $1500 - any scratches the landlord can pin on you.
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| A car in Seoul in not a luxury item or the roads would not be full of cars. |
Flawed logic.
Smart phones are luxury items as well, and you can't move without tripping over them. It's just a luxury item that lots of people want, popularity doesn't make it any less of a luxury item. It is not a "need" in Seoul. It is a convenience and a luxury. Very few people need a car in Seoul just to get back and forth to work and buy groceries. They want one because it's status, sometimes easier. There are plenty of cities in North America where without a car your life would be pretty difficult to manage. There it is a need.
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| And how about those red bell peppers, the grapefruit, the strawberries, the blueberries, the brocolli, the cauliflower, the walnuts? Just because you might live on kimchi and rice doesn't mean everyone is. |
Those aren't on the list. We're talking about the items on the list of vegetables they chose to measure the cost of living. Do you consider basically two varieties to be "several"? I see the small cherry tomatoes as common ones, and then sometimes large ones. There are still other vegetables which are higher up on the essential/staple food chain in Korea that would have a greater bearing on the cost of living than potatoes or tomatoes. |
They chose two items that are common most everywhere. You can understand that, can't you?
As for luxury, get off your fuCiiing computer--it's a luxury! Turn off your heat and wrap yourself up in blankets. It's a luxury. Give away that microwave. Handwash those clothes. Burn your shite for cooking, Get your vegetables from the roadside. Collect old newspapers to use for toilet paper when you take a trip to the woods. Luxury, i say, luxury!
Prada! What you talkin' bout, Willis?!? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Beyond a few staples - everything then is not a "need". Shoot, these Seoulites could be walking to work!!
Alongway, your logic is flawed if you don't think a 40,000,000 should be factored into the cost of living somewhere. |
The point was that a car doesn't have to factor as much into the cost of living in an area with exceptional transit as one that doesn't have that.
And how would you factor in the 40 million? The absolute worst you could do would be to claim you are out the 0.5% interest you might get if you kept that money in the bank.
I wouldn't factor the deposit of an apartment in the west into the cost of living because that is money you get back. The rental scheme is not remotely the same. So trying to compare them as they've done on that site is just stupid.
It is not money you lose or actually spend, so why should it be figured into your costs? |
"Exceptional transit"? If you've got time to kill.
I'd get more than a half percent with the money. That you have to try and defend your argument with exaggeration shows how weak it is.
"Doesn't have to"--most things people spend money on they don't have to. That's no argument. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| They chose two items that are common most everywhere. You can understand that, can't you? |
I can, but it makes the comparison lazy and meaningless. Can't you understand that?
Should I say that Soju costs 1,000 a bottle in Korea and $15 a bottle in the US so the cost of living is 15x as high there? Why not? Oh right, because soju isn't as popular, etc, etc. That's the point, for the, however many times I've had to say it so far. You simply can't choose a few random items and compare their prices and claim it's some kind of measure of the cost of living.
Who said you can't use luxuries? I just said they don't count the same towards cost of living. in New York you probably don't really need to count a car either. though you would have to count the very high cost of rent.
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| "Exceptional transit"? If you've got time to kill. |
The subway is fast, and the bus, save a few traffic jams, is pretty good most times. The subway also goes upwards of 80-100km outside the city limits. How many cities can claim that?
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| That you have to try and defend your argument with exaggeration shows how weak it is. |
This from the guy losing his marbles over people throwing away their computers..
pot and kettle and all that. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
As for luxury, get off your fuCiiing computer--it's a luxury! Turn off your heat and wrap yourself up in blankets. It's a luxury. Give away that microwave. Handwash those clothes. Burn your shite for cooking, Get your vegetables from the roadside. Collect old newspapers to use for toilet paper when you take a trip to the woods. Luxury, i say, luxury!
Prada! What you talkin' bout, Willis?!? |
That reminds me: luxury items are going up in price in Korea.
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| Luxury labels are continuing to hike their prices in Korea even though foreign exchange rates and tariff cuts are working in their favor. Yet consumers are undeterred despite the recession. |
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2013/03/13/2013031301203.html
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Last Wednesday, Louis Vuitton raised the prices of some products by 0.8 to 6 percent, only four months after its last price hike. In January, Hermes hiked the price of the signature Kelly 35cm Bag from W9.98 million to W10.53 million (US$1=W1,096).
Gucci also increased the prices of some popular bags by 4 percent and wallets by 5 to 11 percent. Celine, Burberry and Valentino are also likely to follow suit. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Beyond a few staples - everything then is not a "need". Shoot, these Seoulites could be walking to work!!
Alongway, your logic is flawed if you don't think a 40,000,000 should be factored into the cost of living somewhere. |
The point was that a car doesn't have to factor as much into the cost of living in an area with exceptional transit as one that doesn't have that.
And how would you factor in the 40 million? The absolute worst you could do would be to claim you are out the 0.5% interest you might get if you kept that money in the bank.
I wouldn't factor the deposit of an apartment in the west into the cost of living because that is money you get back. The rental scheme is not remotely the same. So trying to compare them as they've done on that site is just stupid.
It is not money you lose or actually spend, so why should it be figured into your costs? |
Because not everybody has it. and if you don't have it, it'll cost ya. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| Quote: |
| They chose two items that are common most everywhere. You can understand that, can't you? |
I can, but it makes the comparison lazy and meaningless. Can't you understand that?
Should I say that Soju costs 1,000 a bottle in Korea and $15 a bottle in the US so the cost of living is 15x as high there? Why not? Oh right, because soju isn't as popular, etc, etc. That's the point, for the, however many times I've had to say it so far. You simply can't choose a few random items and compare their prices and claim it's some kind of measure of the cost of living.
Who said you can't use luxuries? I just said they don't count the same towards cost of living. in New York you probably don't really need to count a car either. though you would have to count the very high cost of rent.
| Quote: |
| "Exceptional transit"? If you've got time to kill. |
The subway is fast, and the bus, save a few traffic jams, is pretty good most times. The subway also goes upwards of 80-100km outside the city limits. How many cities can claim that?
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| That you have to try and defend your argument with exaggeration shows how weak it is. |
This from the guy losing his marbles over people throwing away their computers..
pot and kettle and all that. |
No it doesn't make the comparisons meaningless because they're not just random items. Where can't you grow and buy tomatoes--Antarctica?
The subway isn't fast. To go those 40 miles it takes two hours. I could do that on a bike.
As for throwing away their computers, good for them, but I think you've mistaken me for someone else.
i see you've wisely given up the luxury argument. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Beyond a few staples - everything then is not a "need". Shoot, these Seoulites could be walking to work!!
Alongway, your logic is flawed if you don't think a 40,000,000 should be factored into the cost of living somewhere. |
The point was that a car doesn't have to factor as much into the cost of living in an area with exceptional transit as one that doesn't have that.
And how would you factor in the 40 million? The absolute worst you could do would be to claim you are out the 0.5% interest you might get if you kept that money in the bank.
I wouldn't factor the deposit of an apartment in the west into the cost of living because that is money you get back. The rental scheme is not remotely the same. So trying to compare them as they've done on that site is just stupid.
It is not money you lose or actually spend, so why should it be figured into your costs? |
Because not everybody has it. and if you don't have it, it'll cost ya. |
A good percentage do, last I saw. I'd have to look up the exact numbers. But in addition the monthly in a comparable situation is much lower in Korea than in western countries.
| Quote: |
| No it doesn't make the comparisons meaningless because they're not just random items. Where can't you grow and buy tomatoes--Antarctica? |
You can make soju in any country in the world, isn't that a good comparison?
Just because you can grow them and buy them doesn't make it a good comparison. If they're not a popular staple their prices will not be reflective of the cost of living. The same reason the big mac index is a pile of crap, and just about every other cost of living index I've seen is the same. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Beyond a few staples - everything then is not a "need". Shoot, these Seoulites could be walking to work!!
Alongway, your logic is flawed if you don't think a 40,000,000 should be factored into the cost of living somewhere. |
The point was that a car doesn't have to factor as much into the cost of living in an area with exceptional transit as one that doesn't have that.
And how would you factor in the 40 million? The absolute worst you could do would be to claim you are out the 0.5% interest you might get if you kept that money in the bank.
I wouldn't factor the deposit of an apartment in the west into the cost of living because that is money you get back. The rental scheme is not remotely the same. So trying to compare them as they've done on that site is just stupid.
It is not money you lose or actually spend, so why should it be figured into your costs? |
Because not everybody has it. and if you don't have it, it'll cost ya. |
A good percentage do, last I saw. I'd have to look up the exact numbers. But in addition the monthly in a comparable situation is much lower in Korea than in western countries.
| Quote: |
| No it doesn't make the comparisons meaningless because they're not just random items. Where can't you grow and buy tomatoes--Antarctica? |
You can make soju in any country in the world, isn't that a good comparison?
Just because you can grow them and buy them doesn't make it a good comparison. If they're not a popular staple their prices will not be reflective of the cost of living. The same reason the big mac index is a pile of crap, and just about every other cost of living index I've seen is the same. |
A comparable situation is doubtful. Apartments in the U.S. are typically larger with more amenities. Washer and dryer, oven, swimming pool. And let's go back to that 40 million won. That's two to three years of rent in the U.S. ,maybe more depending on the situation and location. And you don't have to wait to save the 40 million or get it from your parents.
You don't like surveys because they don't exactly mirror the way you live. Every time someone brings up a survey on this forum, you;re right there
to decry how wrong it is.
Tomatoes are in every supermarket in Korea. They are, unlike the melons, pears and peaches grown in Korea, the same as tomatoes grown anywhere else. They are a valid item to compare even if you don't like them. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Beyond a few staples - everything then is not a "need". Shoot, these Seoulites could be walking to work!!
Alongway, your logic is flawed if you don't think a 40,000,000 should be factored into the cost of living somewhere. |
The point was that a car doesn't have to factor as much into the cost of living in an area with exceptional transit as one that doesn't have that.
And how would you factor in the 40 million? The absolute worst you could do would be to claim you are out the 0.5% interest you might get if you kept that money in the bank.
I wouldn't factor the deposit of an apartment in the west into the cost of living because that is money you get back. The rental scheme is not remotely the same. So trying to compare them as they've done on that site is just stupid.
It is not money you lose or actually spend, so why should it be figured into your costs? |
Because not everybody has it. and if you don't have it, it'll cost ya. |
A good percentage do, last I saw. I'd have to look up the exact numbers. But in addition the monthly in a comparable situation is much lower in Korea than in western countries. |
Interesting. Monthly rents here that I have seen are generally fairly pricey. I'm not sure what cities you're comparing it to, but when a small apt costs $2000 a month or more in rent, that's expensive in my book - regardless of the city.
As for your assertion that "a good percentage" have 40,000,000 - bully for them. That's STILL part of the equation, and I'm kind of surprised you haven't bothered to factor that in.
I agree with ya on your points on Seoul's transit system, but I fear we diverge when it comes to other things. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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I always find these conversations funny, because the apologist defenders of Korea's inexpensiveness look more foolish every time the subject comes up.
Why? Because Korea is not inexpensive. Stats are starting to prove what those of us living here have seen gradually happen over the past several years, but the apologists refuse to accept the truth.
So now they're trying to call the stats into question.
Get your heads out of the sand, apologists. Price are far higher, and teacher wages haven't kept up. And it's FAR more than just an average cost of living increase these past few years.
I find it laughable you guys have stopped quoting prices at Kimbapcheonguk simply because they are now 5,500 won for a meal that costed 3,500 just 3 years ago. Used to be a staple of your argument, and now, bringing it up just makes the opposiing view all themore accurate.
Last edited by Swampfox10mm on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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How about living in Korea is cheaper FOR ME? Don't get me started on the cost of living in the U.S., especially in and around cities, and for those who say "Well, we don't live in cities," plenty of other posters have complained of finding decent work in other areas.. Yes, Korea has gotten expensive but I enjoy my life here more and can travel more. I think the key is to find other sources of income other than just from hakwons or stuff.
Here, I don't need a car and can pay 60,000 won per month for broadband, Internet phone and satellite TV with most of the channels (a similar package back home would be $150 or more). The savings potential is also better and such. Of course, if you insist on having stuff from the West, you'll go through your money faster than a speeding bullet.
I've lived in both the U.S. and Korea and the latter wins, though of course, I miss Western efficiency and rationale. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
How about living in Korea is cheaper FOR ME? Don't get me started on the cost of living in the U.S., especially in and around cities, and for those who say "Well, we don't live in cities," plenty of other posters have complained of finding decent work in other areas.. Yes, Korea has gotten expensive but I enjoy my life here more and can travel more. I think the key is to find other sources of income other than just from hakwons or stuff.
Here, I don't need a car and can pay 60,000 won per month for broadband, Internet phone and satellite TV with most of the channels (a similar package back home would be $150 or more). The savings potential is also better and such. Of course, if you insist on having stuff from the West, you'll go through your money faster than a speeding bullet.
I've lived in both the U.S. and Korea and the latter wins, though of course, I miss Western efficiency and rationale. |
That's a good point about cheaper for ME. But you're also talking about, or seem to be, working more than one job to be able to afford this cheaper lifestyle, which is, in at least some ways, a more limited lifestyle.
Priorities factor in no matter where you live. If travel is important to you, you can choose to not spend on other things to afford it, no matter where you live. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I am concerned, the "it's cheaper for me because I live here with fewer luxuries" argument just doesn't hold water.
You can easily do that back home, too. And food is a heck of a lot cheaper. Oh, so you need a car at home? I wonder if you are buying a 100k hoopter like here, or paying a premium for something more? Even if you need to get a car back home and do not need one here, the costs associated with it do not make up for increases in food, electromics, and other costs.
And Korean healthcare is no longer cheap. It is getting A LOT more expensive. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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You guys do realize Seoul is one of the largest cities on our planet right?
Compare it to NY or LA, it's pretty cheap. |
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