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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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 Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
Koreans and many East Asians in gerneral often have had little or no experience of diversity however. Many of them do not mean to cause harm but they can be very, very naive when it comes to relating, talking to, or about people of other races.
Its mostly just lack of exposure. Give them time. |
Generally true, but still not a free pass.
I think many do know they are causing some potential harm, but as it's not as taboo as it is in the West, they go ahead and do it anyway.
Which is interesting as they tend to be fairly sensitive about racism when it's directed at them. As anyone would be.
They haven't gone through the whole PC movement where they aren't allowed to use certain words or phrases without being guilted by everyone around them. There's good and bad aspects to that.
I had a conversation at a bar with some Koreans about how great they thought their 'pure blood' was. The only reason they got on that kick was my friend egged them on by saying HE was also pure blooded, and they started toasting to it. They teased me because I was 'not pure'. I mentioned that it doesn't make them any better and that genetic diversity/mixing is just as good and in some cases better. The reply: WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE?? My reply: Where's yours?
But anyway, I thought this conversation would probably never occur in the PC west. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Odd, we hear about how virulently racist Koreans are, but the one major incident they've had with player racism, the fans have overwhelmingly condemned it. No racist chants directed at Youman, no monkey noises. Rather like America. Isolated insensitive comment draws stern public response that is turned into a teachable moment.
"Tolerant" Europe on the other hand...Suarez, John Terry, racist chants, etc. Racism seems to crop up on a regular basis with quiet support from sectors of the fan bases.
Even at Japanese games you may get a Dokdo banner, but there are no fan brawls, no anti-Japanese chants, no fights and accusations of inappropriate language.
What's the reason for this? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Odd, we hear about how virulently racist Koreans are, but the one major incident they've had with player racism, the fans have overwhelmingly condemned it. No racist chants directed at Youman, no monkey noises. Rather like America. Isolated insensitive comment draws stern public response that is turned into a teachable moment.
"Tolerant" Europe on the other hand...Suarez, John Terry, racist chants, etc. Racism seems to crop up on a regular basis with quiet support from sectors of the fan bases.
Even at Japanese games you may get a Dokdo banner, but there are no fan brawls, no anti-Japanese chants, no fights and accusations of inappropriate language.
What's the reason for this? |
Careful, Steelrails. The anti-immigrant fringe will soon arrive, informing us that we North Americans can't possibly comprehend the threat of multiculturalism. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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I think some are confusing ignorance with racism. The Korean player doesn't realize that his comments could be deemed hurtful to Black people. Had he known I am fairly confident he would not have used those words, same as a westener would not have chosen those words because of how they know it is perceived.
The matter is an opportunity not only to educate the player but other Koreans as well.
I've heard a story where Korean kids have described a black teacher's skin as 'dirty' as a way to describe it. They loved the teacher from what I understand but being kids used a wrong choice of words. This is NOT an example of racism. However, I would hope those kids are corrected and it explained to them. Korea is becoming more global. My worry is that some of those same kids go to America or where ever and say 'your skin is dirty' and get their asses beat for saying something they were ignorant about.
I had books that described people as Negro and I had to explain to them NOT to use that term and advise the director to get different books that used modern terms. Friends have had books that use 'coloured' as well which is fine for South Africa and even the UK but not in America. Just like when I was growing up I was told not to use the word 'Oriental' to decribe Asians. I remember a teacher saying that some Asians would be offended and that to some 'Oriental' are things lke a rug or vase but not people. Brits in America get into trouble for saying 'Japs' which is okay in England but offensive to Japanese Americans.
The other posts about Blacks and fried Chicken IS racist because of how its perceived. It doesn't matter if you have stats that say Blacks like fried chicken or not. Its how the term is perceived and knowing this, if someone says it then it is racist because of the implied intent.
Racism, anti semitism, homophobia and any assortment of things is now overused and misused these days and unfortunately it hurts the actual cases. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| I mentioned that it doesn't make them any better and that genetic diversity/mixing is just as good and in some cases better. The reply: WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE?? My reply: Where's yours? |
Korea needs to start teaching basic genetics from junior school onwards.
It is a proven fact that geographically isolated populations tend to accumulate harmful mutations as well as narrow their gene pool.
Human populations on large continental landmasses are healthier, more diverse because the females have had access to a wider genetic choice for longer. It seems obvious to me for example that Africans are more athletic than Koreans and northern europeans are generally superior swimmers because of their body type.
Races have their own strengths and weaknesses. The more races interbreed, the closer we get back to the original stronger, more robust humans that had a superior and more versatile genetic makeup.
Next time they tell you "pure blood" is superior, ask them why Koreans do not dominate the world at athletics or swimming.
The more mixed your ancestry, the prouder you really should be- not only because of a greater genetic, but also a wider cultural infusion. Many strands make a stronger rope. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| I mentioned that it doesn't make them any better and that genetic diversity/mixing is just as good and in some cases better. The reply: WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE?? My reply: Where's yours? |
Korea needs to start teaching basic genetics from junior school onwards.
It is a proven fact that geographically isolated populations tend to accumulate harmful mutations as well as narrow their gene pool.
Human populations on large continental landmasses are healthier, more diverse because the females have had access to a wider genetic choice for longer. It seems obvious to me for example that Africans are more athletic than Koreans and northern europeans are generally superior swimmers because of their body type.
Races have their own strengths and weaknesses. The more races interbreed, the closer we get back to the original stronger, more robust humans that had a superior and more versatile genetic makeup.
Next time they tell you "pure blood" is superior, ask them why Koreans do not dominate the world at athletics or swimming.
The more mixed your ancestry, the prouder you really should be- not only because of a greater genetic, but also a wider cultural infusion. Many strands make a stronger rope. |
Tell me more, Mr. Science Man. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
Human populations on large continental landmasses are healthier, more diverse because the females have had access to a wider genetic choice for longer. It seems obvious to me for example that Africans are more athletic than Koreans and northern europeans are generally superior swimmers because of their body type.
Next time they tell you "pure blood" is superior, ask them why Koreans do not dominate the world at athletics or swimming. |
South Koreans have the highest average IQ of any nation in the world, with Japan -- a likewise isolate nation -- coming next. But yes, clearly the only proper measure of genetic fitness is winning swimming medals at the Olympics. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| yes, clearly the only proper measure of genetic fitness is winning swimming medals at the Olympics. |
| northway wrote: |
| Tell me more, Mr. Science Man. |
Sport being as profitable as it is, there have been many scientific studies about what makes the best swimmers and best athletes. It comes down to body type, build, and relative proportions, that are prevalent in certain races but not others. Humans are not all the same neither are various human populations genetically equal.
Is that really news to you? Or are you just being pedantic 23-yr old grads as usual. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
Sport being as profitable as it is, there have been many scientific studies about what makes the best swimmers and best athletes. It comes down to body type, build, and relative proportions, that are prevalent in certain races but not others. Humans are not all the same neither are various human populations genetically equal.
Is that really news to you? Or are you just being pedantic 23-yr old grads as usual. |
I'm not disputing that some race or another might hypothetically be better at swimming. I'm saying that Koreans have an atypically high average IQ from a global perspective, that having a high average IQ is wildly more socially beneficial than having a high average swimming potential, and that the fact that you need to ignore that in order to make your "Mongrels are genetically superior" case is a black mark on it which you need to address if you want it to stand. I'm happy to accept that the various human populations are not genetically equal. Once we accept that, though, then what we see is that it's the genetic isolates -- not the cross-breeders -- who trend towards the highest IQs, and I'm saying I value that infinitely more than being a good swimmer. So go on, explain to me why I should want my child to genetically resemble the average African instead of the average Korean, Japanese, or Ashkenazi. Defend your hypothesis, and this time, don't ignore the content-heavy portion of my post while doing so. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| yes, clearly the only proper measure of genetic fitness is winning swimming medals at the Olympics. |
| northway wrote: |
| Tell me more, Mr. Science Man. |
Sport being as profitable as it is, there have been many scientific studies about what makes the best swimmers and best athletes. It comes down to body type, build, and relative proportions, that are prevalent in certain races but not others. Humans are not all the same neither are various human populations genetically equal.
Is that really news to you? Or are you just being pedantic 23-yr old grads as usual. |
Larger landmasses? Yes, there are genetic differences between different groups. East Africans tend to be great distance runners, but not great sprinters. Conversely, West Africans have better bodies for sprinting. You're casting far too broad of a net with "Africans are more athletic", and your reasoning for why that's the case is highly questionable. Pedantic enough for you?  |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| I'm not disputing that some race or another might hypothetically be better at swimming. |
Its not "hypothetical", its a fact.
I know every ounce of your ridiculous PC-whipped being commands you to pretend all humans are equal, but in reality different human populations have differing characteristics that give them unique advantages.
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| having a high average IQ is wildly more socially beneficial than having a high average swimming potential |
Maybe in your opinion. Others want their descendants to be physically strong, attractive and healthy rather than just computer nerds.
Certainly a build that grants outstanding swimming ability would be something attractive to select for if you live in a culture that supports itself by diving for seafood for example.
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, and that the fact that you need to ignore that in order to make your "Mongrels are genetically superior" case |
Apart from your pathological need to be be ignored or maligned, "mongrels" is a derogatory term that is best used for domestic dogs rather than people.
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| what we see is that it's the genetic isolates -- not the cross-breeders -- who trend towards the highest IQs |
In the case of east asians, sure: but then they have other unique genetic disadvantages. Studies show east asians suffer from problems with vision for example.
Personally I see a well-balanced person as the ideal. Or better, someone who has a mosaic of good qualities- physical fitness, physique, athleticism, intelligence, and so on.
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| explain to me why I should want my child to genetically resemble the average African instead of the average Korean, Japanese, or Ashkenazi. |
Don't put words in my mouth. It doesn't have to genetically resemble any particular race. I'm saying that people of mixed race have a greater and more varied genetic heritage, which tends toward healthier humans. Wouldn't you rather have kids who are both highly intelligent as well as good at sport?
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| don't ignore the content-heavy portion of my post while doing so. |
Better ask your therapist why you have a deep-seated need to make enemies out of thin air by accusing others of ill intentions that they do not possess. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| East Africans tend to be great distance runners, but not great sprinters. Conversely, West Africans have better bodies for sprinting. |
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| You're casting far too broad of a net with "Africans are more athletic |
You've just agreed with me, then contradicted yourself... in the same breath.
Better ask your therapist why you need to draw attention to yourself by being absurdly obtuse. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:14 am Post subject: |
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I don't know what's worse the fact that this thread took a turn towards Jimmy the Greek type analysis or the fact that I'm such a dinosaur for knowing who Jimmy the Greek is.
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Maybe in your opinion. Others want their descendants to be physically strong, attractive and healthy rather than just computer nerds.
Certainly a build that grants outstanding swimming ability would be something attractive to select for if you live in a culture that supports itself by diving for seafood for example.
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I don't even know where to begin with that statement. There's cases for everything, but citing diving for oysters in the 21st century is just ridiculous.
The computer nerds would just design some sort of harvester that would clear out a bed of oysters in hours and have 3000X the haul that an oyster diver would have in the same time. What's the oyster diver going to do? Quickly swim and attack its steel hull with a bone-tipped harpoon while the computer nerds pilot a drone?
Or drop off the smart person in such an environment- The nerd develops agriculture, sailing, pickling, and tool making and opens up new food choices besides clams and finds themselves able to withstand unexpected events impacting the food chain. Your diver is dependent on a single food source that can change with the tides. That kind of dependency and specialization is highly risky for species and many of the ones that go extinct do so because they are so highly dependent on a single energy source.
It's a lot easier for brains to overcome physical limitations than it is for brawns to overcome mental limitations. If physical strength and being built for combat were the most important things, humans would be the endangered species while megafauna ruled the earth. Instead some thin-skinned, relatively weak, possessing average vision and hearing, poor smell, biped can make virtually any other vertebrate on this planet endangered if not extinct.
We have the brains to unleash biological warfare on other species. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| East Africans tend to be great distance runners, but not great sprinters. Conversely, West Africans have better bodies for sprinting. |
| Quote: |
| You're casting far too broad of a net with "Africans are more athletic |
You've just agreed with me, then contradicted yourself... in the same breath.
Better ask your therapist why you need to draw attention to yourself by being absurdly obtuse. |
Critical reading fail ftl. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| citing diving for oysters in the 21st century is just ridiculous. |
The point is that different societies view different traits as attractive. If you can't understand this fact then you need to get out more. In the world I mean.
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| some thin-skinned, relatively weak, possessing average vision and hearing, poor smell, biped can make virtually any other vertebrate on this planet endangered if not extinct. |
Sorry to break it to you but nerds/ dweebs are not sexy. Maybe if they make millions and can afford bodyguards, but otherwise no.
It goes by what women unconsciously select for, not by what you, steelrails, hypothesize is best.
If women selected only what is theoretically best for the human race then criminals, psychopaths and military dictators would never get laid. But thats not what happens, sorry.
Overwhelmingly women select men who are physically strong so as to protect them.
In any case studies show that having a high IQ does not exactly lead to social success or happiness. Rather it is those with lower IQ's that reproduce faster and in greater numbers. |
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