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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| All that being said, expat will stick as a term most people teaching abroad will use. |
Of course, you think the generally middle class college white kid from the suburbs is going to see himself on par with the "migrant workers"... you know the ones who worked on farms as laborers... the ones you use to study back in Sociology and Poli Sci?
Not in a million years. Those are the people you used to look down on (perhaps subconsciously) back home. You weren't one of them.
English Instructors fit into a grey area in this regards.
English teachers aren't really migrant workers.
I know some migrant workers, and trust me, you think you got it bad at your university language center or hogwan, your case is no where near as sad as these people's.
Try getting 1 day off a month, working 12 hours a day, all for about $500 a month in the Gulf States working at a retail store. Welcome to the world of the Filipino OFW.
But at the same time, the term "expat" generally conjures up an image of an older, wealthy, professional class foreigner with his own private driver and maid, who he's probably banging on the side.
ESL is not a professional job, which is reflected by the generally low salaries paid out by the universities and schools here and by the poor way teachers are often treated.
So ESL teachers are kinda in a grey area.... not really true expats per se, but not really migrant workers either. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Interesting paddy.
The thing is, the vast majority of ESL teachers are indeed migrant, short term workers on short-term sponsored work visas (the legal ones).
I agree the comparison ends there when it comes to other types of migrant workers and said so in my previous post I think. |
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yodanole
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: La Florida
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| The peripatetic English teacher. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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An English teacher migrated for work, so they're migrant workers. They didn't have the job in their home country and now perform it for the same employer overseas.
An Expatriate was hired in their home country, did the job in their home country, and was sent overseas. They weren't hired overseas. Their home country employer gives them hardship pay for the hassle of living overseas.
==
Canadians can look at their tax residency status. If you employed overseas by a CDNcorp or CDN govt. you are probably still a CDN resident. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| A high powered lawyer or banker probably doesn't hang out with English teachers in Seoul, I'm guessing. There may be some exceptions if you don't act like an "english teacher" and are too young. But, what do I know? |
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shostahoosier
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:02 am Post subject: |
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The "refreshing lack of pretension," mentioned in the original post, is oddly something I've only been able to find with people that aren't English teachers. Well in Seoul at least.
A lot of the pretension I've encountered within the expat community (in Seoul) has come from the long-timers/lifers that feel like they've earned some special social ranking in the expat bubble and expect you to adhere to it.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being an English teacher, (I used to be one) but I've met so many "musicians", "fashion designers", "painters", and "film makers" who act like they're the next big thing and you should earn their interest. These "artists" are usually just English teachers, no more special than anyone else unemployed back home with a BA in Creative Writing. The only difference is that maybe they've been here longer, so they get to write about their hobby in a magazine.
I like meeting people, but who needs to waste their time climbing the social ladder in Korea just to rub elbows with people who ultimately have little power here?
It's like having to deal with all of the pretension of socializing in Manhattan but without any of the benefits (money, interesting skills, real connections, etc.).
I have friends that teach English here, but most of the people I've ended up hanging out with have been professionals, and I was surprised as I thought it would be the total opposite. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:02 am Post subject: |
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I like meeting people, but who needs to waste their time climbing the social ladder in Korea just to rub elbows with people who ultimately have little power here?
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Yes it must be annoying to waste your time talking to people who don't have any power here or can benefit you in some way. I actually just communicate with the woman who cleans the office though grunts and gestures nowadays as I decided long ago that she doesn't have any skills, money or connections to interest me.
Last edited by edwardcatflap on Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:14 am Post subject: |
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I don't know who I'd rather hang out with...
Boring respectable banker type... or the 'off-center' ESL lifer type who is not quite playing with a full deck...
I'll take the nutjobs and oddballs anyday... way more interesting. |
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shostahoosier
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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I like meeting people, but who needs to waste their time climbing the social ladder in Korea just to rub elbows with people who ultimately have little power here?
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Yes it must be annoying to waste your time talking to people who don't have any power here or can benefit you in some way. I actually just communicate with the woman who cleans the office though grunts and gestures nowadays as I decided long ago that she doesn't have any skills, money or connections to interest me.
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Maybe you didn't read the rest of my post, or even the rest of that sentence.
Or maybe I hit a sore spot.
I don't have an issue with talking to anyone that doesn't "have any power here".
What I have a problem with are expats that want you to put them on a pedestal because they're "big" in the expat scene. There is no value in sucking up to 95% of the expats here. But you couldn't tell them that.
The few expats that I've met here that are actually awe inspiring have also been the most down to earth people. Go figure.
And I'd rather spend my time talking to that lady that cleans your office. She's probably more interesting and less full of herself than a lot of the incredibly talented E̶n̶g̶l̶i̶s̶h̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶c̶h̶e̶r̶s̶ "artists" I've had the misfortune of meeting. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Or maybe I hit a sore spot. |
Yes maybe you did. You suggested you are the kind of person who likes to 'climb the social ladder' and 'rub shoulders with people who have power' These are usually the kind of people I don't have much time for. You also talk about 'sucking up to people' to get something from them. Look I know there are jobs around where you have to do this kind of thing but it's not exactly something to be proud of. That's my opinion anyway. I'm sure there are lots of other people on here who'd be impressed by that kind of talk.
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| And I'd rather spend my time talking to that lady that cleans your office. She's probably more interesting and less full of herself than a lot of the incredibly talented E̶n̶g̶l̶i̶s̶h̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶c̶h̶e̶r̶s̶ "artists" I've had the misfortune of meeting. |
No, the woman who cleans my office is as dull as ditch water. I'm civil to her but I'd rather talk to an English teacher who had grand pretensions of being an actor/ writer. Wouldn't expect to get any benefits from either of them but then I wouldn't expect to get any benefits from talking to my wife's friend who's the CEO of Mitsubishi either. |
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shostahoosier
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| Or maybe I hit a sore spot. |
Yes maybe you did. You suggested you are the kind of person who likes to 'climb the social ladder' and 'rub shoulders with people who have power' These are usually the kind of people I don't have much time for. You also talk about 'sucking up to people' to get something from them. Look I know there are jobs around where you have to do this kind of thing but it's not exactly something to be proud of. |
I must have clearly hit a nerve because i never "suggested" any this.
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And I'd rather spend my time talking to that lady that cleans your office. She's probably more interesting and less full of herself than a lot of the incredibly talented E̶n̶g̶l̶i̶s̶h̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶c̶h̶e̶r̶s̶ "artists" I've had the misfortune of meeting. |
No, the woman who cleans my office is as dull as ditch water. I'm civil to her but I'd rather talk to an English teacher who had grand pretensions of being an actor/ writer. Wouldn't expect to get any benefits from either of them but then I wouldn't expect to get any benefits from talking to my wife's friend who's the CEO of Mitsubishi either. |
Interesting way to end a post for someone trying to show how pretentious they aren't. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Interesting way to end a post for someone trying to show how pretentious they aren't. |
I was trying to make it clear that I don't view the people I interact with socially as to how they can benefit me in some way. A standard retort to this would be that it's because I don't meet anyone powerful enough for it to be an issue. Hence the example above.
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I must have clearly hit a nerve because i never "suggested" any this.
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The words you highlighted are all direct quotations from what you said, presumably about yourself. Are you trying to claim you were actually talking about other people's behaviour now? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Jebus Kripes folks...interact with whomever you find interesting. No need to argue about it or transform it into an Epic battle over social standing and who is pretentious or not...even if it is entertaining to watch. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:13 am Post subject: |
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What is the "expat mold (mould)" anyway?
Is that supposed to be what expats are expected to be?
Is it supposed to be a stereotype of what many view expats to be?
Is it some fungal infection only expats can get?
I hope people don't take me seriously with this last one.
What exactly do you mean by the thread title? |
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