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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
I have a few friends with MBAs working in the investment arms of various banks. They make in excess of 6 figures and all of them have had a credit checks done. This was back in 2001-ish. However, I guess a credit check for a call-center job isn't as important. |
I've never had a credit check for a job, and I've worked in investment banking and consulting for large firms (I'm American). For my first job in the industry, I hadn't even established a credit history yet. I've never heard of anyone needing a credit check for a job in the US, but I can't comment on 10+ years ago. The most likely scenario for requiring a credit check would probably be if there was some sort of credit-dependent benefits, like preferential mortgage rates.
UPDATE: Before I post, I did some searching on Google, and it appears some employers do require credit checks (particularly for "riskier" applicants, such as those coming off unemployment). |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Man, I feel so bad for kids today. When I went grad in 1994, I dont even remember a credit card company on my campus, and school wasnt that bad. I do think that parents are a bit lacking in the good advice department, ie how to use your money, but still, its amazing that student debt is so high and a brick around these guys necks. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| happiness wrote: |
| Man, I feel so bad for kids today. When I went grad in 1994, I dont even remember a credit card company on my campus, and school wasnt that bad. I do think that parents are a bit lacking in the good advice department, ie how to use your money, but still, its amazing that student debt is so high and a brick around these guys necks. |
Sounds like school was much more affordable back then. Nice. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| nate1983 wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
I have a few friends with MBAs working in the investment arms of various banks. They make in excess of 6 figures and all of them have had a credit checks done. This was back in 2001-ish. However, I guess a credit check for a call-center job isn't as important. |
I've never had a credit check for a job, and I've worked in investment banking and consulting for large firms (I'm American). For my first job in the industry, I hadn't even established a credit history yet. I've never heard of anyone needing a credit check for a job in the US, but I can't comment on 10+ years ago. The most likely scenario for requiring a credit check would probably be if there was some sort of credit-dependent benefits, like preferential mortgage rates.
UPDATE: Before I post, I did some searching on Google, and it appears some employers do require credit checks (particularly for "riskier" applicants, such as those coming off unemployment). |
Yes, it has become more prevelant in the USA since the Great Recession. It is also pretty common for federal government jobs, even those that don't have security clearances. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| In the US, auto insurance companies use credit checks to set rates for drivers. You would think that credit scores have nothing to do with driving saftey, but the companies stick by their actuaries. |
I actually ran into this recently. I bought a brand new Elantra (Avante), paying for more than half in cash, but I've never had a credit card due to this being the first time I've lived in the States for any extended period of time. With no credit history, I was initially quoted $4,200/year for insurance (on a car that cost $16,000). Different insurance companies put varying levels of emphasis on the credit history, and I was able to get it down to something much more palatable, but I almost brought the car back when I got my first quote. |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Bad credit means no job. |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
I guess my point is that it's great to be a foriegner in Korea. But, it has to suck being a Korean in Korea. You must get a job by a certain age, get married by a certain age, get laid off from Samsung at a certain age, etc.. |
No, no and no. |
So are you saying that Korean companies don't force out workers at a certain age- an age that is earlier than the standard retirement age of 65 or so? |
Are you saying that ALL Korean companies do this? Are you saying that all Korean workers are forced out?
Some workers are forced out. But if this happens to the majority of employees and companies...why is youth unemployment a problem here?
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2013/08/333_122223.html
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| The youth unemployment rate through August 2012 has slightly decreased to 7.8 percent compared with 8.0 percent in the previous year. However, the problem is that even with the relatively low unemployment rate many young people still decide to remain economically inactive due to a lack of access to decent jobs. Youth unemployment rate since 2000 hasn't significantly changed. |
13 years ago and it still hasn't changed much.
But if you have a link to a news source that states that Korean workers are forced out at a certain age and that this is a wide-spread practice...feel free to post it. |
I agree with what you said, except for the fact that since I have received my Korean citizenship, I was already informed by the University that employs me that I will only be allows to work as a "regular" employee until I am 65. After that time I will considered retired. However, if I want to work as a "part-time" lecturer I can sign a contract just as non-permanent employees working at the University do. So, it isn't about the ability to work that is really the issue. It is about being able to work as a permanent full-time employee. IMHO |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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To continue in the same vein.
http://www.oecd.org/els/emp/ageingandemploymentpolicies-statisticsonaverageeffectiveageofretirement.htm
As we can see this claim about workers being forced to retire early does not hold water.
| Quote: |
| Japan and Korea are notable exceptions where the effective age of retirement is close to 70 for men despite an official retirement age of 60. In other countries, men on average are still in the workforce at age 65 in Denmark, Iceland, Ireland, Portugal and Switzerland, but have left work by their 60th birthday in Austria, Belgium, France, Hungary, Luxembourg and the Slovak Republic. Women, in general, retire around one to two years earlier than men. |
If people are forced out early here it's likely for a reason such as the company needing to cut costs, or they've ticked off the powers that be in some way...things like that. Generally speaking firms don't get rid of large swaths of their most experienced and talented employees. Those that do...generally don't prosper in the marketplace thereafter.
That's just common sense...and the OECD study cited above backs it up. |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
To continue in the same vein.
http://www.oecd.org/els/emp/ageingandemploymentpolicies-statisticsonaverageeffectiveageofretirement.htm
As we can see this claim about workers being forced to retire early does not hold water.
| Quote: |
| Japan and Korea are notable exceptions where the effective age of retirement is close to 70 for men despite an official retirement age of 60. In other countries, men on average are still in the workforce at age 65 in Denmark, Iceland, Ireland, Portugal and Switzerland, but have left work by their 60th birthday in Austria, Belgium, France, Hungary, Luxembourg and the Slovak Republic. Women, in general, retire around one to two years earlier than men. |
If people are forced out early here it's likely for a reason such as the company needing to cut costs, or they've ticked off the powers that be in some way...things like that. Generally speaking firms don't get rid of large swaths of their most experienced and talented employees. Those that do...generally don't prosper in the marketplace thereafter.
That's just common sense...and the OECD study cited above backs it up. |
Makes sense. Thanks for the article citation.  |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
To continue in the same vein.
http://www.oecd.org/els/emp/ageingandemploymentpolicies-statisticsonaverageeffectiveageofretirement.htm
As we can see this claim about workers being forced to retire early does not hold water.
| Quote: |
| Japan and Korea are notable exceptions where the effective age of retirement is close to 70 for men despite an official retirement age of 60. In other countries, men on average are still in the workforce at age 65 in Denmark, Iceland, Ireland, Portugal and Switzerland, but have left work by their 60th birthday in Austria, Belgium, France, Hungary, Luxembourg and the Slovak Republic. Women, in general, retire around one to two years earlier than men. |
If people are forced out early here it's likely for a reason such as the company needing to cut costs, or they've ticked off the powers that be in some way...things like that. Generally speaking firms don't get rid of large swaths of their most experienced and talented employees. Those that do...generally don't prosper in the marketplace thereafter.
That's just common sense...and the OECD study cited above backs it up. |
Doesn't hold water? Do you not know any middle aged Korean men? I estimate I have known well over a thousand, as they are my primary students. The thing that really keeps them up at night is the fact that they must leave their job in the early 50's at the latest. Some in their late forties. This is always a focus of discussion in my classes. Your stats only account for retirement age. That doesn't factor in that when they leave their companies, they open small businesses, hence they are not really retired. Their companies force them out, but they continue to muddle through with self employment or contract work. Ever hear the Konglsih terms "Chicken Hof man" or "shutterman"? They even have a phrase describing being forced out of their companies: the "Oh Sa (45) sorrow". Meaning at age 45 you feel sorrow.
Public sector jobs are liked here because the retirement age is normal at 65.
"Mandatory retirement at a very young age, often in the mid 50s, is a defining feature of Korean workplaces. After being forced to retire so early, workers face a long period of low paying and precarious employment either in self-employment or contract work. Not surprisingly, Koreans have working lives that are among the longest in the OECD and cannot fully retire until age 70."
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20110824000784
From the OECD: "Older workers in Korea currently face a long but rocky road to retirement. The National Pension System (NPS) has not yet reached maturity and so many older people have little alternative but to continue working as a source of income. In Korea, older workers effectively retire on average at around 68 years of age from men and 67 years of age for women, which are much older ages than in many other OECD countries. Yet, employers appear reluctant to retain older workers beyond a certain age, often as low as 55. It is common practice among firms in Korea to set a mandatory age of retirement well below the age of
60, which is the norm recommended under the Aged Employment Promotion Act." http://www.oecd.org/els/emp/33906935.pdf
"According to latest research released by the Korea Labor Institute (KLI), Koreans are found to have retired much earlier than their European peers, indicating older workers here will likely face greater financial difficulty after retirement.The state-run institute said Friday that an average salaried worker is allowed to remain on the payroll until they turn 57.4 years-old. But in reality, employees retire at 53 on average. " http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2012/05/123_110326.html
"Although contractual mandatory retirement at a specified age has been eliminated, or limited, in many Western nations, the practice remains widespread in other parts of the world. In South Korea (henceforth, Korea) most workers are subject to contractual mandatory retirement, often while still relatively young; that is, in the 50s. Korean retirement policies are deeply rooted in the belief by policy makers, employers and
unions that mandatory retirement creates jobs for young workers. In addition, because worker compensation is linked to age, employers argue that the seniority-based wages paid to older workers are excessive. http://www.clsrn.econ.ubc.ca/workingpapers/CLSRN%20Working%20Paper%20no.%2093%20-%20Abstract.pdf
This next passage shows why the retirement stats you posted are not pertinent in determining whether Korean companies force out middle aged workers. "The self employed, particularly males, account for a much larger fraction of the labor force in Korea than in other nations with comparable economic development. Well over half of male Korean workers aged 45 and older are self-employed. Even in the non-farm sector, self-employed workers account for 41 percent of male non-farm workers aged 45 and older. Among male workers aged 65 and older, 49 percent are self-employed. http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/working_papers/2011/RAND_WR834.pdf
You have been in Korea a long time. How can you not know about this, TUM? It is the most important concern of every Korean man who works for a private company. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
To continue in the same vein.
http://www.oecd.org/els/emp/ageingandemploymentpolicies-statisticsonaverageeffectiveageofretirement.htm
As we can see this claim about workers being forced to retire early does not hold water.
| Quote: |
| Japan and Korea are notable exceptions where the effective age of retirement is close to 70 for men despite an official retirement age of 60. In other countries, men on average are still in the workforce at age 65 in Denmark, Iceland, Ireland, Portugal and Switzerland, but have left work by their 60th birthday in Austria, Belgium, France, Hungary, Luxembourg and the Slovak Republic. Women, in general, retire around one to two years earlier than men. |
If people are forced out early here it's likely for a reason such as the company needing to cut costs, or they've ticked off the powers that be in some way...things like that. Generally speaking firms don't get rid of large swaths of their most experienced and talented employees. Those that do...generally don't prosper in the marketplace thereafter.
That's just common sense...and the OECD study cited above backs it up. |
If you read deeper into the OECD study, yes Korean workers "retire" later . But that is after their companies kick them out. They are then forced to "work" until they are old because they are broke because their companies forced them out when they needed the income most: kids in college. Once the companies kick them out they must open chicken hofs or just find any kind of casual work they can find. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Given that this is a democracy; you'd think folks would rise up and demand protection against ageism disrimination making this laying off of workers illegal. Though I suppose many of these companies new hires would probably start at a lower wage as time went on. But the thought never seems to occur to them for some reason it seems according to the couple of Korean folks I've talked to. |
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oldsurly
Joined: 05 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| oldsurly wrote: |
| Credit, good/bad/questionable it matters and, it matters greatly. It is one of the first things that are looked into when applying for a banking or "white collar" job as jvalmer said. If you apply to the Gov. of Canada with bad credit you've just wasted everyone's time. (It is absolutely impossible to obtain a security clearance with bad credit) Even if you have A+++ credit but your debt load compared to the salary being offered is too high you may be denied employment. Each application is scrutinized and a decision is made on a case by case basis. |
I disagree, bad credit has nothing to do with your job performance. The only case where it could matter is in the financial sector, but then again the way you handle your money does not directly correlate into how you treat other people's money. Bad credit doesn't mean you will perform a job poorly either. If credit is a factor in getting a job, that means no one can forget to pay a bill one single time. Furthermore, the American government is pushing for a bill that will make regular bills such as phone, cable, and electricity bills declared on credit reports. How many people have forgotten to pay these bills once or twice in their life? |
No, it was never stated a person could not get "a job." What was said was that many jobs especially ones in the government and finance certainly DO require credit checks. I also stated that each application is scrutinized on a case by case basis, and if a credit check is part of the employment package or vetting process it is also scrutinized on a case by case basis. If there is questionable activity on the credit report the applicant has the ability to answer questions about the activity during the interview and, explain what may have occured to cause the "blip" on the credit report. However, I MUST reiterate, it depends on the type of employment being sought. I have to admit, I have no idea how things work in the United States, I can only speak about what occurs in Canada. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Speaking of Canada, credit checks are indeed part of conditions of employment with financial institutions. On the other hand, it's very rare to be asked for a credit rating check if you are not employed in a job where you directly handle a large amount of money. It's insolvent debts that would be a problem, not a low credit score. If not able to resolve insolvent debts, bankruptcy is better than insolvent debts because it shows that you have taken steps to fix the problem. Once you're through your your loan discharge period, about a year long, you can start rebuilding your credit rating. I've known people to get car loans and new credit cards very shortly after going through a bankruptcy process. As I understand it, first time bankruptcies aren't that big of a deal if you get your act together afterwards. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Some say the US is harder to go bankrupt in or companies can collect from you more easily depending on your state. |
It's very difficult for creditors to collect debts unless the person has a nice house, transportation and has good money coming in added to that. That's why you don't want to loan money to people as an individual.
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| I had bad credit for a while in Canada and I still got jobs. Though the harasing calls from collection agencies are nothing I care to repeat. |
In the USA all you have to do is write a letter to your creditor telling them not to contact you anymore (There's a name for the letter, I don't remember what it is). They can take you to court if they want to, but if you tell them to leave you alone with the letters and phone calls, they have to leave you alone |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| In the US debt collectors have been known to call neighbors and debt shame people who owe. " Hello, do you know your next door neighbor Radcon? Yes he owes us money and refuses to pay. What a dead beat." |
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