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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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 Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Sam Hammington has to a certain extent defended foreigners and said some positive things. Apart from him though I cant think of any others who have done the same. |
From what I remember Hammington had the chance to defend foreigners on a tv show a while ago after the 'dangers of dating a foreigner' and pussied out. When we needed him to show some backbone he was found lacking and meekly muttered a rather feeble dribble of defence. For that reason alone, I think he is a fat, useless, pathetic knobface. |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Sam Hammington has to a certain extent defended foreigners and said some positive things. Apart from him though I cant think of any others who have done the same. |
From what I remember Hammington had the chance to defend foreigners on a tv show a while ago after the 'dangers of dating a foreigner' and pussied out. When we needed him to show some backbone he was found lacking and meekly muttered a rather feeble dribble of defence. For that reason alone, I think he is a fat, useless, pathetic knobface. |
Sam Hammington is not a representative for every foreigner in Korea. It's not his duty or responsibility to defend foreigners.
If you see a foreigner acting wild in the streets of Itaewon or Hongdae, do you run up to them and lecture them about the image of foreigners in Korea? But because Sam Hammington is on tv, he's held to a higher standard? |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| Your constant attempts to troll bore me. Do you ever think that your trolling is a desperate lunge for attention, due to the lack of it your receive offline? |
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3DR
Joined: 24 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| Your constant attempts to troll bore me. Do you ever think that your trolling is a desperate lunge for attention, due to the lack of it your receive offline? |
In other words, you have no rebuttal...got it. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| optik404 wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Sam Hammington has to a certain extent defended foreigners and said some positive things. Apart from him though I cant think of any others who have done the same. |
From what I remember Hammington had the chance to defend foreigners on a tv show a while ago after the 'dangers of dating a foreigner' and pussied out. When we needed him to show some backbone he was found lacking and meekly muttered a rather feeble dribble of defence. For that reason alone, I think he is a fat, useless, pathetic knobface. |
Sam Hammington is not a representative for every foreigner in Korea. It's not his duty or responsibility to defend foreigners.
If you see a foreigner acting wild in the streets of Itaewon or Hongdae, do you run up to them and lecture them about the image of foreigners in Korea? But because Sam Hammington is on tv, he's held to a higher standard? |
No, but trying to counter some of the erroneous lies spread about foreigners would be helpful. Also I dont think it is just his responsibility, it would be nice if all famous foreigners in Korea just did a little bit more. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| 3DR wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
| Your constant attempts to troll bore me. Do you ever think that your trolling is a desperate lunge for attention, due to the lack of it your receive offline? |
In other words, you have no rebuttal...got it. |
The fat man fans are out in force today. All two of them.
Here's a rebuttal:
I've never claimed it is Sam Hambone's "duty or responsibility to defend foreigners". I do, however, feel people are made up of their actions. Therefore Sam's cowardly action of failing to stick up for himself, and a group he belongs to whether he likes it or not, makes him a fat, useless, pathetic knobface in my opinion.
| Quote: |
| If you see a foreigner acting wild in the streets of Itaewon or Hongdae, do you run up to them and lecture them about the image of foreigners in Korea? But because Sam Hammington is on tv, he's held to a higher standard? |
I'd judge him/her on his/her actions and I'd think that foreigner is a knobface. The same way i've formed my opinions on that fat, useless, pathetic tosspot Sam Hammington. The equivalent of running up to this foreigner would be to hunt Hammbone down and lecture him on why he is a arsepiece. I don't have the time or inclination to do that.
To confirm, I think Sam Hammington, and any foreigner acting wild in the streets, is a knobface. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Sam Hammington has to a certain extent defended foreigners and said some positive things. Apart from him though I cant think of any others who have done the same. |
From what I remember Hammington had the chance to defend foreigners on a tv show a while ago after the 'dangers of dating a foreigner' and pussied out. When we needed him to show some backbone he was found lacking and meekly muttered a rather feeble dribble of defence. For that reason alone, I think he is a fat, useless, pathetic knobface. |
Did you watch the whole program?
If I was to show you parts where he did object, would it change your mind about him? |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I saw clips of the show, but if you can find clips I'll watch them again and see if it changes my perspective. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| I saw clips of the show, but if you can find clips I'll watch them again and see if it changes my perspective. |
It was posted on another forum, but here's one person's breakdown of what Sam said.
| Quote: |
If you haven't seen it, you can watch the full show here:
http://home.jtbc.co.kr/Vod/VodView.aspx ... EP10015482
The topic of the show is crimes committed by foreigners. There is a total of 13 guests on the show, some of them are police officers, psychologists, etc and some are entertainers like Mr. Hammington. Sam was not the only foreign born-person on the pannel. One of the guests was Yogi Daniel, an Iranian-born contortionist who has lived in Korea since 1979. He has since become a naturalized citizen. I find it slightly odd that Sam Hammington gets singled out here for participating and not this other guy. It might be because the other guy isn't as well known, or is it because Hammington is white?
Anyway, here's everything that Sam said...
about 2 minutes in: Sam pokes fun at the (at the time) new Korean law that will fine women for wearing revealing clothing. says that one of the female guests might be in trouble.
5 minutes: a sort of video intro is played. very even handed in my opinion. explains the dangers of xenophobia. explains that most of the increase in foreign crime can be explained simply by the increase in the number of foreigners in the country.
8 minutes: host introduces the foreign guests. Mr. Daniel says he's been in Korea since 1979. Sam mentions he was only 2 years old then. The host reveals that assault is the most common crime committed by foreigners. one of the other guests mentions that if you go to itaewon you can see people fighting a lot. Sam jokingly says you can see it in Hongdae too.
9 minutes: Sam mentions that many fights between koreans and foreigners start over misunderstandings. Examples given: foreigner says "I'm fucking tired" and Korean thinks the F word was directed at him. He also mentions the PSY song "Champion" where the chorus includes "니가" which many foreigners hear as "nigger" They also mention different meaning of hand signals in various cultures.
12 minutes: Sam mentions that he has experienced cases where Korean men will swear at him if they see him with Korean women in public. He mentions that these situations can often lead to fights and assault charges.
16 minutes: female guest says the popularity of dance clubs and the way that foreigners dance so close to women is a problem. Sam calls her out immediately and says you can go to any club in Korea and find Koreans dancing "boobi boobi".
20 minutes: "The video". This is the part of the show that foreigners got pissed off about. The host introduces this as a "manual for hooking up with korean women" that was posted on an English Teachers website (they don't say it, but they're talking about the old "English Spectrum"). It's only about 2 minutes long. It shows a guy named "David" approach a random girl on the street. He tells her she's pretty, etc and asks her to have a drink with him. He pretends to like Korean food even though he doesn't. He takes her to a bar, gets her drunk, and takes her back to a hotel. End of video.
22 minutes: host asks sam if he has heard about this scandal (it was big news about 10 years ago). He says yes. Host asks if anyone that Sam knows has ever asked him for tips on how to hook up with Korean women. Sam says yes. He goes on to tell a story of a handsome foreign friend of his who is married. He says when they go out together many women approach him, and even when he tells them that he is married they do not stop. He seems to be pointing out that many Korean women pursue Western men just as much.
A police officer says that Korean women trust foreigners too easily.
24 minutes: another police officer tells a story of a Nigerian English teacher who raped a high school student and the student's mother. Sam points out that Nigerians can't legally get visas to teach English in Korea. Police officer admits he was teaching illegally and shouldn't have been allowed to.
26 minutes: One of the female guests mentions how many foreigners approach her in public, tell her she's pretty, ask for her phone number. She says she doesn't like this. Sam says he doesn't believe her. The host of the show points out that talking to people is not a crime.
28 minutes: Host asks guest to guess which countries commit the most crimes in Korea. Sam says China. A few others say USA. One woman guesses Japan. Sam tells them they are wrong.
29 minutes: The list of top 10 countries is revealed. China was number 1 (Sam was right). Some of the guests are surprised to see Canada at number 9. Sam speculates that it may be because of Canada's lax drug laws/culture. Japan is revealed to have the lowest crime rate among foreigners in Korea.
30 minutes: Sam points out that the numbers for China and the USA are high because there are so many Korean-Chinese and Korean-Americans living in Korea, and that Koreans might not immediately recognize them as foreign.
32 minutes: Before revealing the top ten list of countries for crimes committed per capita the host again asks for guesses. Sam correctly guesses the top 3 countries and none of the other guests do. The host asks him how he knew. Sam says he reads the newspaper. Audience laughs. Sam goes on to say that this can be a hot issue in the foreign community. He says foreigners are equally upset when there is a foreigner committing crimes in the news. He says many Koreans see 1 or 2 foreign crimes in the news and are quick to blame all foreigners.
35 minutes: Sam points out that many foreigners who come to Korea do not understand Korean laws. He gives the example of self-defense, where in his home country he would be free to fight back against an attacker in Korea he would receive an assault charge.
36 minutes: Host asks panel to guess locations where foreign crimes occur most. Sam guesses all of them correctly (places with high concentration of Chinese/Southeast Asian workers). Other guests guessed places like Itaewon.
There is a long break here where Sam doesn't say anything. I suppose this is bound to happen on a show with 13 guests. During this time some of the experts discuss some of the possible causes of foreigner crime. Some of the police officers and psychologists discuss issues of poverty, discrimination, marginalization. As much as people want to spin this is a "racist" or "anti-foreigner" show, it struck me as very even-handed, looking for solutions and answers rather than passing blame.
45 minutes: the topic shifts to immigration issues and illegal immigrants. Sam says Korean needs to more thoroughly screen foreigners before they enter the country. He says English teachers need criminal background checks but many other long term residents/workers do not.
Sam goes on to point out that foreigners are often the victims of crime in Korea as well, and they have a very difficult time seeking justice because they don't understand the system and they don't speak the language, and often they simply give up. A police officer chimes in and says there is no problem, because they have translators on staff who can be called in when needed. Sam says that the translators are often worthless, unhelpful, change statements, etc. He says that many foreigners do not trust the police or feel that they would not be treated fairly.
52 minutes: After a long discussion about frauds cases related to international marriages, mostly Southeast Asian brides, Sam points out that in Korean culture many people are willing to marry too quickly, without knowing eachother well, etc. Says this leads to many problems.
54 minutes: The host asks panel to guess the reasons why foreigners commit crimes. I thought this was slightly odd because no one mentioned where they got the data, surveys? court testimonies? I don't know... Sam guesses money. He was wrong for the first time on the show. Money was number 5. The number 1 reason was revealed to be revenge.
56 minutes: After another brief discussion of racism by the panel, some theorizing that foreigners want revenge for poor treatment from Koreans, Sam says that Koreans often discriminate against foreigners or treat them lightly, sometimes without even realizing it. He says he has experienced this himself many times (but doesn't give any examples). He says the Korean economy has globalized but the thinking and attitudes of its people has not. He says in the 10 years he has lived in Korea he has seen some positive changes, but that the country still has a long way to go.
That's about it.
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Sounds to me like he gave a lot of counter points. But the whole vid is linked, so each can decide on their own.
Honestly, when I first heard about this, I thought Sam was a tool for it. But after reading this breakdown, and watching the whole vid, I felt like there was more to it. |
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cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
| I saw clips of the show, but if you can find clips I'll watch them again and see if it changes my perspective. |
It was posted on another forum, but here's one person's breakdown of what Sam said.
| Quote: |
If you haven't seen it, you can watch the full show here:
http://home.jtbc.co.kr/Vod/VodView.aspx ... EP10015482
The topic of the show is crimes committed by foreigners. There is a total of 13 guests on the show, some of them are police officers, psychologists, etc and some are entertainers like Mr. Hammington. Sam was not the only foreign born-person on the pannel. One of the guests was Yogi Daniel, an Iranian-born contortionist who has lived in Korea since 1979. He has since become a naturalized citizen. I find it slightly odd that Sam Hammington gets singled out here for participating and not this other guy. It might be because the other guy isn't as well known, or is it because Hammington is white?
Anyway, here's everything that Sam said...
about 2 minutes in: Sam pokes fun at the (at the time) new Korean law that will fine women for wearing revealing clothing. says that one of the female guests might be in trouble.
5 minutes: a sort of video intro is played. very even handed in my opinion. explains the dangers of xenophobia. explains that most of the increase in foreign crime can be explained simply by the increase in the number of foreigners in the country.
8 minutes: host introduces the foreign guests. Mr. Daniel says he's been in Korea since 1979. Sam mentions he was only 2 years old then. The host reveals that assault is the most common crime committed by foreigners. one of the other guests mentions that if you go to itaewon you can see people fighting a lot. Sam jokingly says you can see it in Hongdae too.
9 minutes: Sam mentions that many fights between koreans and foreigners start over misunderstandings. Examples given: foreigner says "I'm fucking tired" and Korean thinks the F word was directed at him. He also mentions the PSY song "Champion" where the chorus includes "니가" which many foreigners hear as "nigger" They also mention different meaning of hand signals in various cultures.
12 minutes: Sam mentions that he has experienced cases where Korean men will swear at him if they see him with Korean women in public. He mentions that these situations can often lead to fights and assault charges.
16 minutes: female guest says the popularity of dance clubs and the way that foreigners dance so close to women is a problem. Sam calls her out immediately and says you can go to any club in Korea and find Koreans dancing "boobi boobi".
20 minutes: "The video". This is the part of the show that foreigners got pissed off about. The host introduces this as a "manual for hooking up with korean women" that was posted on an English Teachers website (they don't say it, but they're talking about the old "English Spectrum"). It's only about 2 minutes long. It shows a guy named "David" approach a random girl on the street. He tells her she's pretty, etc and asks her to have a drink with him. He pretends to like Korean food even though he doesn't. He takes her to a bar, gets her drunk, and takes her back to a hotel. End of video.
22 minutes: host asks sam if he has heard about this scandal (it was big news about 10 years ago). He says yes. Host asks if anyone that Sam knows has ever asked him for tips on how to hook up with Korean women. Sam says yes. He goes on to tell a story of a handsome foreign friend of his who is married. He says when they go out together many women approach him, and even when he tells them that he is married they do not stop. He seems to be pointing out that many Korean women pursue Western men just as much.
A police officer says that Korean women trust foreigners too easily.
24 minutes: another police officer tells a story of a Nigerian English teacher who raped a high school student and the student's mother. Sam points out that Nigerians can't legally get visas to teach English in Korea. Police officer admits he was teaching illegally and shouldn't have been allowed to.
26 minutes: One of the female guests mentions how many foreigners approach her in public, tell her she's pretty, ask for her phone number. She says she doesn't like this. Sam says he doesn't believe her. The host of the show points out that talking to people is not a crime.
28 minutes: Host asks guest to guess which countries commit the most crimes in Korea. Sam says China. A few others say USA. One woman guesses Japan. Sam tells them they are wrong.
29 minutes: The list of top 10 countries is revealed. China was number 1 (Sam was right). Some of the guests are surprised to see Canada at number 9. Sam speculates that it may be because of Canada's lax drug laws/culture. Japan is revealed to have the lowest crime rate among foreigners in Korea.
30 minutes: Sam points out that the numbers for China and the USA are high because there are so many Korean-Chinese and Korean-Americans living in Korea, and that Koreans might not immediately recognize them as foreign.
32 minutes: Before revealing the top ten list of countries for crimes committed per capita the host again asks for guesses. Sam correctly guesses the top 3 countries and none of the other guests do. The host asks him how he knew. Sam says he reads the newspaper. Audience laughs. Sam goes on to say that this can be a hot issue in the foreign community. He says foreigners are equally upset when there is a foreigner committing crimes in the news. He says many Koreans see 1 or 2 foreign crimes in the news and are quick to blame all foreigners.
35 minutes: Sam points out that many foreigners who come to Korea do not understand Korean laws. He gives the example of self-defense, where in his home country he would be free to fight back against an attacker in Korea he would receive an assault charge.
36 minutes: Host asks panel to guess locations where foreign crimes occur most. Sam guesses all of them correctly (places with high concentration of Chinese/Southeast Asian workers). Other guests guessed places like Itaewon.
There is a long break here where Sam doesn't say anything. I suppose this is bound to happen on a show with 13 guests. During this time some of the experts discuss some of the possible causes of foreigner crime. Some of the police officers and psychologists discuss issues of poverty, discrimination, marginalization. As much as people want to spin this is a "racist" or "anti-foreigner" show, it struck me as very even-handed, looking for solutions and answers rather than passing blame.
45 minutes: the topic shifts to immigration issues and illegal immigrants. Sam says Korean needs to more thoroughly screen foreigners before they enter the country. He says English teachers need criminal background checks but many other long term residents/workers do not.
Sam goes on to point out that foreigners are often the victims of crime in Korea as well, and they have a very difficult time seeking justice because they don't understand the system and they don't speak the language, and often they simply give up. A police officer chimes in and says there is no problem, because they have translators on staff who can be called in when needed. Sam says that the translators are often worthless, unhelpful, change statements, etc. He says that many foreigners do not trust the police or feel that they would not be treated fairly.
52 minutes: After a long discussion about frauds cases related to international marriages, mostly Southeast Asian brides, Sam points out that in Korean culture many people are willing to marry too quickly, without knowing eachother well, etc. Says this leads to many problems.
54 minutes: The host asks panel to guess the reasons why foreigners commit crimes. I thought this was slightly odd because no one mentioned where they got the data, surveys? court testimonies? I don't know... Sam guesses money. He was wrong for the first time on the show. Money was number 5. The number 1 reason was revealed to be revenge.
56 minutes: After another brief discussion of racism by the panel, some theorizing that foreigners want revenge for poor treatment from Koreans, Sam says that Koreans often discriminate against foreigners or treat them lightly, sometimes without even realizing it. He says he has experienced this himself many times (but doesn't give any examples). He says the Korean economy has globalized but the thinking and attitudes of its people has not. He says in the 10 years he has lived in Korea he has seen some positive changes, but that the country still has a long way to go.
That's about it.
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Sounds to me like he gave a lot of counter points. But the whole vid is linked, so each can decide on their own.
Honestly, when I first heard about this, I thought Sam was a tool for it. But after reading this breakdown, and watching the whole vid, I felt like there was more to it. |
Couldn't get the video to play.
If the summary is accurate, then I've got to say I have some respect for him. Especially what he said about police translators...
It would be a pretty difficult balance to strike between not pissing off your bread and butter, but providing some kind of counter. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Sounds to me like he gave a lot of counter points. But the whole vid is linked, so each can decide on their own.
Honestly, when I first heard about this, I thought Sam was a tool for it. But after reading this breakdown, and watching the whole vid, I felt like there was more to it. |
I couldn't watch the video, the link was a dead end, but I take your point. I am being too harsh on Hammbone. It's probably because, from memory, he never actually went on the offensive. I feel he missed his chance to really make Koreans think about their xenophobic ways. I do take your point and perhaps I expect too much from him.
Overall, I would have liked it if he had argued his points a bit harder. I could dissect what Ham said in your reply, but I don't care enough about this to spend any more time on it. I do appreciate your post though. |
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wanderkind
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:19 am Post subject: |
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I caught some Caucasian foreigner I'd never seen on TV before telling an anecdote (as far as I could tell) on a Korean variety show recently. She seemed to have an excellent command of Korean, so props there, but I couldn't get past the fact that she had probably the most irritating voice I've ever heard. Just, appallingly nasal. Every time she chimed in I cringed so hard.
'Hammbone' and that other fellow (Richard...something? Who speaks Korean with a Busan accent) are the most common waygook appearances I catch on TV, and I don't mind them in general. The clowning can be pretty grating, but considering how much of that goes on in Korean advertising in general, not sure one can hold that against them.
Simon and Martina are pretty camp, and obviously not going to be everyone's cup of tea. But I get the impression some of their critics / 'haters' (that's what the kids are saying these days, are they not?) misconstrue who their target demographic is. The way I see it, their content isn't aimed at or consumed by Koreans, or even potential English teachers (anymore), it's aimed at the global diaspora of rabid K-pop/drama fetishists (and those they subsequently convert into their personal fans). If I don't like *Korean Thing X*, it shouldn't be too surprising when *Korean Thing X*'s English-language, waygook-produced paraphenalia is also unappealing.
To draw an analogy regarding their authenticity, if the local Hyundai salesperson personally drives a Volkswagen, why should I really give a shit? They're making a living, the same as sales-people the world over. |
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peter07
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Gwangmyeong
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:20 am Post subject: |
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This thread has gotten off topic but I'll put in my two cents about the Ham. That guy seems to have few friends because of his arrogance, and often is seen ALONE. I know people who've worked with him and they have nothing but bad things to say about him. Women especially have expressed disgust over his behavior and mannerisms. I mean come on, he speaks Korean, is fat and makes a monkey out of himself on TV. That's not an attack on an expat just because he happens to be famous, but that outside of his Korean ability, he has no talent whatsoever.
That German idiot who recently had to resign as head of Korea Tourism Organization for doing sex tourism in Japan is yet another example of a useless expat celeb who just happens to speak Korean. I saw him in a Korean drama in the 1990s, and he couldn't act to save his life but got famous for his role nonetheless. He also had no experience in PR or marketing but got the KTO job.
Korea has LEGIONS to go before it can be considered an advanced country. |
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Gladiator
Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:20 pm Post subject: Celebrities |
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Interesting thread. What's happened to the once mighty Isaac Durst? EBS entertainer of yesteryear? Or that very egotistical, hubris-packed Steven Revere famous for 'Let's Speak Korean' who didn't actually speak Korean?
Where's Mathew Readman> |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Celebrities |
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| Gladiator wrote: |
Interesting thread. What's happened to the once mighty Isaac Durst? EBS entertainer of yesteryear? Or that very egotistical, hubris-packed Steven Revere famous for 'Let's Speak Korean' who didn't actually speak Korean?
Where's Mathew Readman> |
Durst is still in Korea doing various things, and Revere is, also. In Korea, people get sick of things pretty quick so...
The Readman guy returned to the U.K. last I heard. |
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