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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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 Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
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| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| we're only free if we have a gun in our hands. I hate to say it, but in this world, it is the truth. Unless, of course, somebody else has a better weapon. Then, we're not so free anymore. |
They do, it's called corporate enslavement of the masses.
Americans acting like they are free because they have guns is a joke... |
It was a joke. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
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| Stain wrote: |
It was a joke. |
Umm, that seems odd. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
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| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
It was a joke. |
Umm, that seems odd. |
Yeah, it wasn't a very good joke. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
"Tuesday's deadly shooting at Reynolds High School in Troutdale, Ore., was the 74th school shooting since the Dec. 14, 2012, massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., according to Everytown, the grassroots gun control group launched earlier this year by former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg....
"Put another way, there has been, on average, a school shooting every 7.35 days since the tragedy in Newtown — a statistic not lost on President Barack Obama.
" 'We're the only developed country on Earth where this happens,' Obama said Tuesday during a question-and-answer session on Tumblr. 'And it happens now once a week. And it's a one-day story. There's no place else like this.' "
https://news.yahoo.com/us-school-shootings-list-134025238.html
So a school shooting happens about once a week in the US. And Americans can't even agree that background checks should be required for all gun purchases. Outrageous. |
It's an absolute scandal. Do they people running the NRA have no conscience whatsoever? If someone wants to be 'gangsta' and shoot up some place, why not shoot that Lapierre guy. Let's see how pro-gun he is when he's a paraplegic.
In all seriousness, this has to stop. A nation of 300 million people is being held hostage by a mere 4 million hardcore pro-gun advocates. It's outrageous. |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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i think it's incredible that america (or any country for that matter) allows "lobbying" in the first place. do people actually wonder where this lobbying money goes? oh that's right, in the pocket of a politician who is in charge of making the vote, thus BUYING the vote.
lobbying money doesn't go to help anyone, doesn't go to any good cause, it goes straight to the people in charge to line their pockets and buy them a third vacation home. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: 74 School Shootings Since Sandy Hook |
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| Smithington wrote: |
Do the people running the NRA have no conscience whatsoever? |
Nobody is running the show, the machine just seeks to maximize profit, and the humans go along for the ride.
We agree it is retarded. I just point out that "appeals to morality" do nothing, since corporations do not have morality in their charters. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:11 am Post subject: |
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. They should just limit guns to things like old Winchester repeaters and Colt navy revolvers from the Civil War/Wild West era.
There is not THAT much difference between them and the guns available now that it would imperil your right to self defense. Someone skilled with one of those would be almost as lethal as someone with an AR-15. They're much closer to the guns of today than the muskets of 1776. At the same time there's just enough limitation on them that it would be hard to climb the bell tower or go on a 50+ dead rampage with them. Sure you could take out 6-7 people (in theory) quickly, but after that it would be a long, slow reload, and in reality an unskilled lunatic gunman wouldn't be nearly as accurate with them. Good enough to stop a burglar or shoot a deer. Not so good for fulfilling your psychotic dreams of violence.
I have to say that I gotta hand it to Joe Biden for somehow making both the pro- and anti- gun sides look ridiculous. His comment about firing a few blasts from your shotgun into the air or through a door (as an anti assault weapon message) somehow encapsulated the tactical and technical idiocy of the anti-gun crowd, with the recklessness and lunacy of the pro-gun crowd. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Well...perhaps if the younger generations were not....
-playing violent video games
-doped up on med's
-had a stable family life (let's face it, the American family has been broken)
...the U.S. may not have these problems.
Why is it, that this issue was pretty much non existent in the past, as compared to what it is today? What was the factor(s) that have instigated this change of behavior?
The teaching of responsibility and right from wrong comes to mind (taking me back to the American family).
Then again, does everyone believe that these shootings, especially at sandy hook, are ALL real, according to how the government run media has portrayed them? Does anyone think that this is instigated by the U.S. government, as a slow pathway to disarm the American people?
Other countries can say as they please. But, the founding fathers knew what they were doing in this regard. Having an armed citizenry is a counterpoint to despotism and tyranny. But, I doubt they contemplated that the Republic they forged would be in the state it is today...
And, to demonize those who "cling to their guns" is simply disrespectful, along side of the polarization of the issue by saying "guns or children".
This has been in the works for a long time...sponsored by your friendly United Nations.
Creating problems to create solutions...think about it. Who has the power to do such things? |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| A nation of 300 million people is being held hostage by a mere 4 million hardcore pro-gun advocates |
Really? "Held Hostage".
OK...well if we put into that perspective, we have to consider how many gun owners there are in the United States (legal gun owners), in order to define "held hostage". |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| trueblue wrote: |
Why is it, that this issue was pretty much non existent in the past, as compared to what it is today? What was the factor(s) that have instigated this change of behavior? |
What makes you think this issue was non-existent in the past? |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| trueblue wrote: |
| Other countries can say as they please. But, the founding fathers knew what they were doing in this regard. Having an armed citizenry is a counterpoint to despotism and tyranny. But, I doubt they contemplated that the Republic they forged would be in the state it is today... |
That's just a load of horse sh?t.
Name ONE, just one, developed country (other than the US) that has a worry or feels some entrenched need for the citizens to protect themselves from "despotism and tyranny".
| trueblue wrote: |
| And, to demonize those who "cling to their guns" is simply disrespectful, along side of the polarization of the issue by saying "guns or children". |
They deserve to be demonized and the issue is as simple as guns or kids.
| trueblue wrote: |
| This has been in the works for a long time...sponsored by your friendly United Nations. |
Nope.
This sh?t is home grown in the good 'ol US of A.
You can't pin this one on the UN, Al-Qaeda, the middle east or China.
A nation of "gun nuts", afraid of their own shadows without their "firepower".
They haven't progressed from the days of the old west.
Stand your ground, shoot first and ask questions later.
A civilized nation they are not.
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| What makes you think this issue was non-existent in the past? |
I did not say it quite like that...I said it in a context that compares the issue in today's time. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Then again, does everyone believe that these shootings, especially at sandy hook, are ALL real, according to how the government run media has portrayed them? Does anyone think that this is instigated by the U.S. government, as a slow pathway to disarm the American people? |
Why not? Do you have any actual evidence they are faked, beyond just what you heard on Alex Jones?
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Name ONE, just one, developed country (other than the US) that has a worry or feels some entrenched need for the citizens to protect themselves from "despotism and tyranny".
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I'd say any country with mandatory military service is one that has an entrenched need for the citizens to protect themselves from despotism and tyranny. This would include S. Korea, Finland, Norway, Switzerland, Austria, Israel, Taiwan, and Singapore. You think guns are "insane", how about forcibly taking young people and throwing them into military service for a year or two? That sounds kind of "insane" to me. Except of course it doesn't, and neither should reasonable gun ownership.
What about S. Africa? In all honesty, if I lived there I would seriously consider gun ownership given certain conditions and from what I've heard from Saffas here (bout every month or so I hear "Family member/Friend X was robbed/had their house broken into").
| Quote: |
| They deserve to be demonized and the issue is as simple as guns or kids. |
Your saying so does not make it true. The issue IS NOT as simple as guns or kids, just as any issue involving public safety and regulation is not as simple as X or kids. That's not a rational approach to public policy. That is a premise for lunacy that can be used to justify anything under the sun.
Ttompatz, I think you are overlooking some significant historical factors in American gun ownership that explain why the situation has evolved into what it is today. Not saying that it is a "good" situation, but there is a rational basis for it. Unfortunately the situation today is the logical outcome of that rational course. What works in the past can lead to trouble in the future as technology and society change. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| That's just a load of horse sh?t. |
I disagree with you, sir.
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| Name ONE, just one, developed country (other than the US) that has a worry or feels some entrenched need for the citizens to protect themselves from "despotism and tyranny". |
Well, I'm speaking for America, not other countries. Now, regarding "despotism and tyranny", in the lessons of history, once a public is disarmed...bad mojo can come forth. It does not have to be a charging force of change that happens in the blink of an eye. It can be social conditioning, for one.
A developed country does not necessarily correlate with an honest government that truly is looking out of the people...I think even you would agree with that.
trueblue wrote:
And, to demonize those who "cling to their guns" is simply disrespectful, along side of the polarization of the issue by saying "guns or children".
| Quote: |
| They deserve to be demonized and the issue is as simple as guns or kids. |
Well, in that case, the polarization of the issue should be demonized.
Does anyone honestly feel that "gun control" will not lead to other forms of control?
trueblue wrote:
This has been in the works for a long time...sponsored by your friendly United Nations.
| Quote: |
Nope.
This sh?t is home grown in the good 'ol US of A.
You can't pin this one on the UN, Al-Qaeda, the middle east or China.
A nation of "gun nuts", afraid of their own shadows without their "firepower".
They haven't progressed from the days of the old west.
Stand your ground, shoot first and ask questions later.
A civilized nation they are not. |
Really? Home grown, you say? Yes, indeed...by the 2nd Amendment.
Pin this on Al-Qaeda, you say? I don't recall having them being entered in the debate but...OK.
I did not mention the middle east nor did I mention China.
A nation of "gun nuts' you say? Now, you are simply personalizing the issue by attacking the other side.
Afraid of their own shadows, you say? Not really...it is just that many folks in the U.S. are very skeptical of the social and political transformation that has been taking place, over the years. And, there are many Americans who WILL fight, to protect the Republic (if it can still be called that)
Shoot first, ask questions later, you say? I don't think you are interpreting that correctly (unless I am mistaken). It is simply referring to the justification of a person to use force, even deadly, in a matter of self defense, without retreat.
Progressed from the old days of the west, you say? OK...can you clearly define progressivism? I don't see any political pundit defining the term (nor do I see any political or social pundits, including the media, defining "conservatism" and "liberalism".
A civilized nation, we are not, you say?
Well...who is? |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| Why not? Do you have any actual evidence they are faked, beyond just what you heard on Alex Jones? |
I'm sorry to disappoint you but I do not watch or listen to Alex Jones.
Think about it...where is the video footage? Why were there two men running in the woods, away from the scene. And why is there a high speculation that the "school" looks very muck like a FEMA training center.
Now, have I been there and seen the place? No. But I do find it odd that the media was persistent in reinforcing the term "assault rifle" when in fact, one was not used...unless I am mistaken.
There is much controversy surrounding this issue. And, to give a direct answer to your questions...the absence of evidence does not mean there is none.
And...I simply do not trust what the United States government or its media, has to say about most things. Thus, I refuse to live in a state of "double think" regarding that matter. If Sandy Hook did in fact, happen...it is terrible. But...as I said, there ARE issues that have been ignored in terms of questions of accuracy, those who were there, what they heard (or did not hear) and the question regarding the proximity of the FEMA training center...so, I would argue that, these issues should be taken into account.
Quote:
Name ONE, just one, developed country (other than the US) that has a worry or feels some entrenched need for the citizens to protect themselves from "despotism and tyranny".
I'd say any country with mandatory military service is one that has an entrenched need for the citizens to protect themselves from despotism and tyranny. This would include S. Korea, Finland, Norway, Switzerland, Austria, Israel, Taiwan, and Singapore. You think guns are "insane", how about forcibly taking young people and throwing them into military service for a year or two? That sounds kind of "insane" to me. Except of course it doesn't, and neither should reasonable gun ownership.
Those are good points, especially when you say "reasonable gun ownership". But, that is a very hard term to define, seeing as how there are backdoors and loopholes to define the term. For example, the government can say that if you still owe taxes, confirmed by the IRS, you are not allowed to own a weapon...things of that nature, which...have been put in place (just in a different form).
| Quote: |
| What about S. Africa? In all honesty, if I lived there I would seriously consider gun ownership given certain conditions and from what I've heard from Saffas here (bout every month or so I hear "Family member/Friend X was robbed/had their house broken into"). |
Another good point. I will discuss that matter with my S.A. friend.
Quote:
They deserve to be demonized and the issue is as simple as guns or kids.
Your saying so does not make it true. The issue IS NOT as simple as guns or kids, just as any issue involving public safety and regulation is not as simple as X or kids. That's not a rational approach to public policy. That is a premise for lunacy that can be used to justify anything under the sun.
| Quote: |
| Ttompatz, I think you are overlooking some significant historical factors in American gun ownership that explain why the situation has evolved into what it is today. Not saying that it is a "good" situation, but there is a rational basis for it. Unfortunately the situation today is the logical outcome of that rational course. What works in the past can lead to trouble in the future as technology and society change |
I will have to meet you half way on that...especially since the concept of self governance is or has, faded away in the United States. As I mentioned somewhere, I don't think the founding fathers of the United States could conceive the state of the Republic as it is now. In addition, I am firm believe that corrupt government actually creates situations, even slowly, in order to implement their solution(s)...they can be very creative. |
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