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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: |
| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
| It is a total lie, however, to suggest that a talented and diligent teacher in Korea cannot make similar money as teachers working in the ME. If you get a job a decent hagwon in Gangnam, you can make USD 60k a year. If you work your up to a better position or do extra work, you can make 80k or more. |
I don't think anyone here suggested that. And we were comparing average salaries. You're comparing a specific, high end job (of which there aren't many) to the average salary in the M.E. So, while I guess you could make M.E. money in Korea (I did - but not in teaching English), it's rare. Or you'd have to work harder. IMHO, as always... |
I mainly wrote my post in response to this:
| LPKSA wrote: |
| Korea is a good stepping stone to start from if you want to make ESL your life, but it's not a place to stay if you want to remain in the field. Sooner or later, if you want to make $$$, you're going to have to leave.You'll never truly be regarded as someone who contributes to their society. |
He says that teachers can't make good $$$ in Korea. As I pointed out, that is not true. Granted, the job that wrote about is high-end and not common, but I still think it is a reasonable comparison because, as others have pointed out, many of the jobs in the ME require years of experience and usually an MA. In other words, the "entry-level" jobs in the ME are roughly equivalent to the high-end jobs in Korea in terms of qualifications and pay. That's what I meant. |
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watergirl
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Location: Ansan, south korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hi~
So, still no answer on the actual monetary picture..
So I only have a BA in English, ESl experience (at good jobs..real schools not hakwons) and training in elementary schools in Canada (but not teaching certificate yet), and am wondering what my options would be for jobs?
Do you really need a masters..? Cause I know several women who don't even have a major in English working there.
Q>>still wondering, on salaries of 4,000/mth.. can you save money?????????? IE: just how high is the cost of living..? Iguess it really does depend on the area. |
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Fuzzy_Dunlop
Joined: 18 Jun 2014
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| watergirl wrote: |
Hi~
So, still no answer on the actual monetary picture..
So I only have a BA in English, ESl experience (at good jobs..real schools not hakwons) and training in elementary schools in Canada (but not teaching certificate yet), and am wondering what my options would be for jobs?
Do you really need a masters..? Cause I know several women who don't even have a major in English working there.
Q>>still wondering, on salaries of 4,000/mth.. can you save money?????????? IE: just how high is the cost of living..? Iguess it really does depend on the area. |
Yes, you can save money. Obviously, the more you make, the more you save. Your lifestyle would have the greatest impact on your savings. Drinking in hotels, traveling etc. will chew up your savings pretty good. I saved a ton. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Universities in Korea - most of them don't pay much (even with an MA & experience if you count deductions. Use the same metrics used for measuring a hogwon salary and you can see how unremarkable , mediocre or even just outright low the pay is . Vacations are also less than claimed. Money is not everything of course but at the big famous schools (top 40- 50) teachers (especially non female ones ) are likely in for a rough time as well.
What is known as "contact hours" doesn't mean anything.The only thing that matters is total work and trouble compared to pay.
The truth is that the top 40- 50 big schools are just not good jobs.
Know what you are in store for before you accept employment. |
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basic69isokay
Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Location: korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:20 am Post subject: |
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Korea would be the worst market long term, no doubt.
I think everyone sees that pretty clearly. Now, will it be 5years? 10years? Who knows. But ESL here is past its peak, thats for sure.
Middle east, well, theres oil money there but for how long??
Also, at what point are you concerned about political instability/terrorism/ISIS? I knew a guy who went to Libya in 2009 saying yea mate its a safe country! Didn't work out so well hahah
China is by faaaaaar the best choice, in the long term and the short term. Equal or higher pay in most cases (double or more if you're experienced). Lower cost of living. More culture and appeal. Sure, bad air in some parts but hangzhou, szenzen, xiamen?? Real nice from what ive been told by friends. I've known 3 people who've gone there recently from Korea and lets just say theyre not coming back. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| basic69isokay wrote: |
Korea would be the worst market long term, no doubt.
I think everyone sees that pretty clearly. Now, will it be 5years? 10years? Who knows. But ESL here is past its peak, thats for sure.
Middle east, well, theres oil money there but for how long??
Also, at what point are you concerned about political instability/terrorism/ISIS? I knew a guy who went to Libya in 2009 saying yea mate its a safe country! Didn't work out so well hahah
China is by faaaaaar the best choice, in the long term and the short term. Equal or higher pay in most cases (double or more if you're experienced). Lower cost of living. More culture and appeal. Sure, bad air in some parts but hangzhou, szenzen, xiamen?? Real nice from what ive been told by friends. I've known 3 people who've gone there recently from Korea and lets just say theyre not coming back. |
A know someone who had worked in Shanghai, China. Then, she came to Korea and worked 1 year in a public school. Now she's back in China. She changed cities but I don't recall the name. We have passed emails several times over the years since her return to China. She says her quality of life, work, and income is much better than if she had stayed around in Korea. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| LPKSA wrote: |
I am in the ME now (Saudi). Worked in China and Korea. I have friends who worked in Taiwan.
Friends who worked in Taiwan liked it but didn't particularly care for the long hours and higher cost of living (China is easier to live comfortably but a lot of the the salaries are garbage, although there are some good jobs out there.).
In the ME salaries are good, better if you have more advanced qualifications (English specific degrees, Masters Degrees, CELTA/DELTA, certification to teach in your respective country, multilingual, even if you are Muslim or not) it all factors into what you can land.
Korea is a good stepping stone to start from if you want to make ESL your life, but it's not a place to stay if you want to remain in the field. Sooner or later, if you want to make $$$, you're going to have to leave. You'll never truly be regarded as someone who contributes to their society.
In China, you can start off as a teacher, but it's easy (if you have the right connections) to branch off to other avenues (I have seen quite a few people start off as teachers in China, get married to Chinese, and end up doing something completely different {starting businesses, becoming successful, etc.}).
As user Ttompatz said, the ME is indeed its own can of worms, and it's not for everyone. You definitely can make a lot more than you would in Korea or China, actually, working here puts teaching in Korea to SHAME when it comes to salary and benefits. Where in Korea can you work 4-6 hours a day as an ESL teacher, have 2-3 months vacation (paid in full, up front), make two to three times as much as you make in Korea, and not have to deal with extreme Xenophobia? I am not a Muslim. I'm not even an Arabic speaker, and I have been made to feel more than welcome here. Neither of my bosses are from Saudi. I have supervisors from Anglo countries. Where in Korea will you find yourself having a non-Korean boss? Does that even happen? Life is indeed good here. It's great, actually, although I do miss Korea and certain aspects of it from time to time. I miss walking around with a woman. You can't always do that here.
What I miss about China is the low cost of living. You can indeed find good salaries there as well, and again, it's all about your qualifications and who you know. China is ALL about who you know. It's kind of fd up actually.
I'm not a drinker, so I don't find myself missing some aspects of Korea. Many of my students are so wealthy, and they feel entitled. They sometimes look at me as they would towards their house cleaner. They have the audacity to try to call me out on catching them in a bout of plagiarism. Plagiarism sucks, and you get a lot of it out here. Like Korea, there isn't always that support one might expect either. You kind of have to roll with the punches some times out here.
China, Korea (And Taiwan, I am assuming) are safer. Here you have a very likely chance of getting into a car accident if you plan on driving. Don't count on public transportation, because it doesn't exist. Also, westerners aren't always liked, especially if you are American. Two Americans were just shot very close to where I live, last week. One was killed. |
Quite informative. Just curious, what would someone in China do? Bolded part. I wonder what kind of business you would be able to do or know what to do. Hakwon? |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| LPKSA wrote: |
In the ME salaries are good, better if you have more advanced qualifications (English specific degrees, Masters Degrees, CELTA/DELTA, certification to teach in your respective country, multilingual, even if you are Muslim or not) it all factors into what you can land.
Korea is a good stepping stone to start from if you want to make ESL your life, but it's not a place to stay if you want to remain in the field. Sooner or later, if you want to make $$$, you're going to have to leave. You'll never truly be regarded as someone who contributes to their society. |
All accurate. Korea and the Gulf countries are completely different markets, with different salaries to match the qualifications and experience required.
I work at one of the larger employers of teaching faculty at the tertiary level in the region. We do hire teachers from Korea but these tend to be pretty far along in their careers with an MA/TESL or MEd or similar, plus many many years teaching at the tertiary level (Korean uni, etc). Teachers with PGCEs, B.Eds or similar formal schoolteaching qualifications (not a 1 month CELTA) can do well at international schools here, but again, that's a different market than the typical TEFL'er.
if you look at the CVs of the people working around here you'll notice a circuit: people start in NE Asia (Korea/Japan/China) for a few years, then to Hong Kong/Singapore/Brunei having gained more experience and qualifications, then to the Middle East. I don't know where's next after the ME... retirement?
Anyway, the packages in the ME are very good, especially when put into Korean terms:
-5 million won / month would be on the low side for 20 hrs/week;
-housing (like, actually houses with pools);
-flights for the family;
-2 months holiday;
-private schools for the kids paid for
... but to get these jobs, you need to have the required experience and papers.
Korea's a GREAT place to start and get that initial experience. I did that.
| Quote: |
| Also, westerners aren't always liked, especially if you are American. Two Americans were just shot very close to where I live, last week. One was killed. |
OK, that's a bit different from where I am. No one shot here for being American. Vehicular negligence causing death by a local in a Lexus, perhaps, but not what you're talking about. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| All in all it makes you wonder why someone with good efl qualifications would choose employment in Korea. |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| All in all it makes you wonder why someone with good efl qualifications would choose employment in Korea. |
Qualifications only get you so far. You need to get experience somewhere. But not all Korean experience is considered equal outside of Korea. Korean uni or K-12 EPIK experience would be more highly valued than Ding Dong Dang hogwon.
I'm glad I have Korean experience. The same things that make it not-so-professional also teach a teacher adaptability and flexibility. |
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watergirl
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Location: Ansan, south korea
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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So, I have fairly good experience -a technical university experience, and experience at a prestigious elementary school and actual teaching experience in a college learning centre back home, English major and TESOL, but no masters.
What kind of jobs could I expect there?
To be honest, it's just better for me to do the real teaching certificate back home (Canada) than doing a masters bc I don't think ESL is really a good long-term career choice (that's just my estimation of it, of course.)
Teaching in PS's is still a good job in Canada (unlike in the States these days I think)! |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Even with experience |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Taiwan is the hidden secret of Asia, you want to go there. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| Lemon with all due respect the job market in korea has little in common wth the way things were several years ago. |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| The Lemon wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
| All in all it makes you wonder why someone with good efl qualifications would choose employment in Korea. |
Qualifications only get you so far. You need to get experience somewhere. But not all Korean experience is considered equal outside of Korea. Korean uni or K-12 EPIK experience would be more highly valued than Ding Dong Dang hogwon.
I'm glad I have Korean experience. The same things that make it not-so-professional also teach a teacher adaptability and flexibility. |
The Lemon,
Korea has always been a great place for unqualified (or under-qualified), inexperienced young westerners to work in universities with professor-like conditions. I say professor-like because they are getting university working conditions without actually bringing the academic credentials and research and teaching experience with them. Low salaries or not, it's been pretty easy for those who are not qualified to get jobs at Korean universities.
In other words, these young, unqualified Canadians, British, etc., can come to Korea and punch above their weight. Big time.
Not the case in the Middle East. |
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