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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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 Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
1.7 is basically what Chinese universities are paying. with or without an MA.
Difference is you could save more there, and also earn more with privates. |
Actually, most Chinese unis pay crap. The ones that pay slightly more than crap (like 1.7) have really been upping their requirements lately.
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| I 'm sorry to tell you that I got a message from the international affairs office that the newly employed foreign teachers must meet the following 3 requirements: having a masters degree, having two-year teaching experience at a college or university, or at least one-year teaching experience at a prestigious university; no older than 55. |
There's a lot of "must have prior university experience to get a university job" going on all across the EFL world now. |
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scottysu
Joined: 11 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:48 pm Post subject: Is 1.7..... |
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| It's unquestionaby a terrible salary, although 10 years ago my first university job paid 1.7 and was a stepping stone to a better situation. Today I make 2.8 at a uni and enjoy 20 weeks paid vacation. If you're here for the long run and its your only uni choice at the moment, weigh the pros and cons. Good luck! |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Is 1.7..... |
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| scottysu wrote: |
| It's unquestionaby a terrible salary, although 10 years ago my first university job paid 1.7 |
The difference is, 1.7 ten years ago was worth much more than 1.7 today, your uni job probably had less contact hours and more vacation time (meaning less work) than this one, but most importantly, it didn't require years of prior university experience in order to just be considered. The problem is universities paying highly qualified people crap wages. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:53 am Post subject: Re: Is 1.7..... |
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| scottysu wrote: |
| It's unquestionaby a terrible salary, although 10 years ago my first university job paid 1.7 and was a stepping stone to a better situation. Today I make 2.8 at a uni and enjoy 20 weeks paid vacation. If you're here for the long run and its your only uni choice at the moment, weigh the pros and cons. Good luck! |
Sweet deal. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| They want a highly qualified candidate and their pay is only 1.7...? |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Tell them to eff off and don't apply. Is anyone out there stupid enough to apply? |
The pay is low AND the work conditions are bad:
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| One problem is the academic program itself. The second problem is contract violations and creative interpretation of contract, some of which are blatantly illegal. The final problem is the lack of respect afforded to the teachers by the administration, a relationship that often involves deceit and contempt. |
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=211106
It's not like this can be a stepping stone to a better university job for newbs because prior university experience is required in order to be considered. Ten years ago inexperienced teachers could easily get into university positions. Now, no way.
Work conditions: gradually deteriorating. Pay: gradually deteriorating (especially when adjusting for inflation). Not good considering work experience should bring with it pay raises well above the rate of inflation. That's how it is for most jobs in the world. But EFL is slowly getting a bit worse year by year. Sad to see. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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I've been reading more posts on Facebook lately about how this is a terrible place to work.
So I assume the school by now has a bad reputation among Western English teachers.
How then are they able to require prior university experience (MA+2/BA+5) while paying so little?
Did anyone see the reposted ad? Two more teachers are sought. How many applicants do you think there will be?
| edh wrote: |
| I met several former teachers who worked at SWELL several years previous, and they all described an ok experience which they quit because they could see the beginning of a serious deterioration. Many of the senior girls I taught complained of this drop in quality, both in academics and administration, which they saw over the course of their four years in the program. Obviously I cannot compare the two eras and I don't know what occurred to force this change. I do know that most of the administrators are now different from the past. |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
I've been reading more posts on Facebook lately about how this is a terrible place to work.
So I assume the school by now has a bad reputation among Western English teachers.
How then are they able to require prior university experience (MA+2/BA+5) while paying so little?
Did anyone see the reposted ad? Two more teachers are sought. How many applicants do you think there will be?
| edh wrote: |
| I met several former teachers who worked at SWELL several years previous, and they all described an ok experience which they quit because they could see the beginning of a serious deterioration. Many of the senior girls I taught complained of this drop in quality, both in academics and administration, which they saw over the course of their four years in the program. Obviously I cannot compare the two eras and I don't know what occurred to force this change. I do know that most of the administrators are now different from the past. |
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Supply and demand.
Lots of people out there with economically useless MA degrees, especially since many decided to defer reality by hiding in universities during the Great Recession.
Seriously, what are people thinking when they do a MA and spend lots of money and time on a MA in German literature?
Guess 2 point something a month beats a call center job somewhere... |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Not even two point something in this case, though. The median wage for a a masters degree holder in the U.S. comes to 6,229,239 won per month (plus with much better benefits such as retirement money, etc.) For the SWELL worker, it's exactly 1.7 mil. One fourth as much. I guess the major matters a lot. Those with a masters in engineering pull six figures, while those with a masters in German literature or linguistics or education or MATESOL earn significantly less than those who didn't even go to college but rather learned a trade.
http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm
It does seem that overall, education is hugely beneficial, though.
Here's the monthly median for each group:
(These are 2014 stats; it's even higher in 2015.)
Professional degree: 7,699,646.79 KRW
Doctoral degree: 7,474,143.15 KRW
Master's degree: 6,229,238.60 KRW
Bachelor's degree: 5,172,241.10 KRW
Associates degree: 3,720,631.20 KRW
Some college, no degree: 3,481,045.10 KRW
High school diploma: 3,138,469.50 KRW
Less than a high school diploma: 2,292,871.50 KRW
Sad to see PhDs, MAs and BAs in Korea begging for / competing for jobs that pay 1.7 a month. |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| I know of one type who would take that kind of job. Someone who is just looking for a visa so they can pursue their other more lucrative side jobs. I know of several people like that. They don't care much about their uni job and often do the bare minimum. It's not the cash cow for them. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 3:23 am Post subject: |
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Said individual is in for a sucky surprise.
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The administration demonstrates a lack of respect for the teachers that often is purely contemptuous. Unfortunately, they seem uninterested in building and retaining a competent and professional teaching staff, and have even expressed verbally that they do not wish the foreign teachers to stay for more than two years. This attitude is demoralizing and leads to several material problems, involving both hours and money.
First, the administration has little regard for the employment agreement. (At one point, they expressed verbally that they do not feel bound by the terms of the contract. After all, a contract is only as strong as an individual's willingness to defend it in court.) Overtime and extra classes are assigned without the teachers' consent. Through the regular semesters you can often find yourself working split shifts, resulting in 11-13 hours days, as a result of assigned overtime. During the summer and winter sessions, which last six weeks, teachers must work 25 unpaid hours, which comprises a 25% increase over their contracted interim hours. The extra 25 hours are not mentioned in the contract. They come later as a surprise. Approximately half those hours are participation at extracurricular functions, for which the teachers' participation is essential. The other half is directly teaching and student-guidance related. Furthermore, the extra hours are usually in the evening, effectively requiring teachers to stay on campus for 13-hour days. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| AsiaESLbound wrote: |
| 1.7 m won is still good compared to rest of world and would be OK if you like low contact hours to teach polite fairly quiet good listeners with no loud excited boisterous kids to contend with while just chilling out with lots of down time on the computer. |
But couldn't you just work at the GAP or something and make this much in the comfort of your own country. I mean there are jobs that don't require any education that would pay this much in western countries.
Gheeze, in some countries the government would probably give you income assistance if this was your pay. |
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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There was recently a similar thread on the China board about a low paying university job in Beijing.
Check it out - http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=110818
Anyone investing in further qualifications will be dissapointed with that one. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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I just talked to a university teacher in China.
The new contract was worse than before because of less pay and benefits.
Teachers went to the administration saying this change would cause many quality teachers to leave.
The administration answered by saying, "Good. That's want we want. We want new teachers who will work for less money."
Eventually, two contracts were made. One- contract A- was for those teachers already in the system. This one was worse than before and caused about half of the staff to leave. Contract B- which was much worse- was for new teachers just being hired now.
Overall, uni conditions in China are going downhill, the reason being more people are getting into it. There are no longer more position openings than applicants. It is the opposite now, which is pushing down wages and conditions. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Not even two point something in this case, though. The median wage for a a masters degree holder in the U.S. comes to 6,229,239 won per month (plus with much better benefits such as retirement money, etc.) For the SWELL worker, it's exactly 1.7 mil. One fourth as much. I guess the major matters a lot. Those with a masters in engineering pull six figures, while those with a masters in German literature or linguistics or education or MATESOL earn significantly less than those who didn't even go to college but rather learned a trade.
http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm
It does seem that overall, education is hugely beneficial, though.
Here's the monthly median for each group:
(These are 2014 stats; it's even higher in 2015.)
Professional degree: 7,699,646.79 KRW
Doctoral degree: 7,474,143.15 KRW
Master's degree: 6,229,238.60 KRW
Bachelor's degree: 5,172,241.10 KRW
Associates degree: 3,720,631.20 KRW
Some college, no degree: 3,481,045.10 KRW
High school diploma: 3,138,469.50 KRW
Less than a high school diploma: 2,292,871.50 KRW
Sad to see PhDs, MAs and BAs in Korea begging for / competing for jobs that pay 1.7 a month. |
Given all the young kids who can't get a job nowadays here, I'd say this model is out the window. But ten to 20 years ago, maybe up until the great recession, folks could expect these salaries. In some ways, Korea's like the west in the 1950's to 1970's. Folks could get a job with good pay easily. Now, not so much. If you factor in the housing some overtime, bonuses, etc guess I'm somewhere between High School diploma and Some college; no degree.
Anyways, these folks would get offered jobs just because they went to school and some use to be pretty smug about it and us "poor" English teachers. (Most of us werent ofered highpaying jobs just because we went to school.) But a degree is increasingly no longer valued here, for young Koreans. Not so smug anymore, eh? |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
Not even two point something in this case, though. The median wage for a a masters degree holder in the U.S. comes to 6,229,239 won per month (plus with much better benefits such as retirement money, etc.) For the SWELL worker, it's exactly 1.7 mil. One fourth as much. I guess the major matters a lot. Those with a masters in engineering pull six figures, while those with a masters in German literature or linguistics or education or MATESOL earn significantly less than those who didn't even go to college but rather learned a trade.
http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm
It does seem that overall, education is hugely beneficial, though.
Here's the monthly median for each group:
(These are 2014 stats; it's even higher in 2015.)
Professional degree: 7,699,646.79 KRW
Doctoral degree: 7,474,143.15 KRW
Master's degree: 6,229,238.60 KRW
Bachelor's degree: 5,172,241.10 KRW
Associates degree: 3,720,631.20 KRW
Some college, no degree: 3,481,045.10 KRW
High school diploma: 3,138,469.50 KRW
Less than a high school diploma: 2,292,871.50 KRW
Sad to see PhDs, MAs and BAs in Korea begging for / competing for jobs that pay 1.7 a month. |
Given all the young kids who can't get a job nowadays here, I'd say this model is out the window. But ten to 20 years ago, maybe up until the great recession, folks could expect these salaries. In some ways, Korea's like the west in the 1950's to 1970's. Folks could get a job with good pay easily. Now, not so much. If you factor in the housing some overtime, bonuses, etc guess I'm somewhere between High School diploma and Some college; no degree.
Anyways, these folks would get offered jobs just because they went to school and some use to be pretty smug about it and us "poor" English teachers. (Most of us werent ofered highpaying jobs just because we went to school.) But a degree is increasingly no longer valued here, for young Koreans. Not so smug anymore, eh? |
Recent young Korean university graduates aren't finding the job market to be very rosy. I know this young woman.
Korean female
BA English
26
1.6 @ 35 hrs. week; English Academy |
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