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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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 Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| You may disagree with that argument because Koreans don't use English to communicate with each other, but that would be missing all the occurances of English in pop music and signs, which have a genuine purpose and follow a number of rules. Don't take the arrogant position that Konglish is not real English while correcting your students in class without first considering your own colloquial English. |
That's very cute and PC, and it probably got some struggling professor published, but it reeks of complete horse ddong to me.
Our students are not paying out the nose for a native speaking English teacher in order to have him pat them on the back for their eloquent creations in Konglish. They're paying us because they want to talk more like us.
Recognizing Konglish "as an emerging form of English" is not what I'm being paid to do, and I doubt it's what you're being paid to do, either. |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| You may disagree with that argument because Koreans don't use English to communicate with each other, but that would be missing all the occurances of English in pop music and signs, which have a genuine purpose and follow a number of rules. Don't take the arrogant position that Konglish is not real English while correcting your students in class without first considering your own colloquial English. |
That's very cute and PC, and it probably got some struggling professor published, but it reeks of complete horse ddong to me.
Our students are not paying out the nose for a native speaking English teacher in order to have him pat them on the back for their eloquent creations in Konglish. They're paying us because they want to talk more like us.
Recognizing Konglish "as an emerging form of English" is not what I'm being paid to do, and I doubt it's what you're being paid to do, either. |
I agree with you Son Deureo.
Tell me how many first class businesses�� want someone in a meeting who speaks ��kongolish?�� Or Japalish or slang. None! Or any business for that matter.
Many of these students will go on to become CEO��s, executives, legislators, etc. and they need to speak decent English.
Kongolish is fine for street use slang I suppose when talking with friends��but��..what��s wrong with teaching students correctly, teaching them correct pronunciation, grammar structure and what have you?
It does not matter what English they learn��North American, Australian, South African, Great Britain, NZ, etc�� it��s all English, just different accents, etc��
Students should learn good grammar skills and ��teachers�� who are not helping students to achieve this are just wasting students�� time as well as their own.
Korean students have enough bad English speaking habits as it is.
Drill them and drill them over and over and over again until they get it right and it sticks in their memory.
I come up with 3 questions every day on sentences that are used in common everyday situations. I also have these three questions worded differently and have the different responses worded differently and have the class drilled on them.
No magic to learning English or any language. Just practice. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| I've always treated Konglish like slang. It's not wrong, but it's not always appropriate, and they should know another way to say whatever it is. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:32 am Post subject: Re: me is giving my five cents |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| I think you know Konglish is here to stay, in one form or another. I don't try to eradicate my students' use of Konglish. Like Manner of Speaking was saying, I attempt to steer them towards the middle ground, between what I perceive to be international English and their own codified English. Whether your students want to speak like a native speaker or not, they won't. They might develop a certain accent that is a little bit less Korean, and mabye even learn to produce more complex sentences, but in the end they will speak like bilingual Koreans, but not like native speakers (for one thing, native speakers of English don't employ code-switching when they speak in English, like you might do when you speak in Korean). |
Bingo. The whole issue of what constitutes "legitimate" English is a can of worms, and at least at the classroom level should be avoided. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:23 am Post subject: |
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I disagree. We are paid to be the experts in the English language, and help our students make their English more like our own. In the classroom is exactly where it must be an issue. You're concerned with us imposing what we "perceive" to be standard English? Our having grown up speaking and reading English for most of our lives, and having been educated to at least the point of a four-year college degree should give us some pretty good insight into what standard English is. Our students are paying for us to share this insight.
Outside of the classroom, I don't really give a rat's ass what unique additions Koreans make to English, Portuguese, Esperanto, or any other language (unless it's a friend that I know wants to improve their English). But in my classroom, Konglish doesn't fly.
I really hope it doesn't in yours, either. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Agreed. Konglish is useful among Koreans only. (and some foreigners here)
I could not understand Koreans when I was new to them. After a lot of time I can, and unfortunately some students may get the impression foreigners can understand their expressions.
Nope!
I have talked to a few Koreans who sounded nearly fluent in English to me, who expressed their frustrations with English abroad.
We get used to it here after a while and understand their lousy English. But it does not help them abroad.
"Konglish" isn't as international as English. Obviously. |
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Flossie
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Location: Up to my nose in the sweet summer smells of sewerage in Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Back to the original thread about error types...My current pet peeve is with negatives. Misusing no, not, nothing.
Personal (but painful) experience:
When I asked my boyfriend why he had included no photos of me from our recent trip together on his Cyworld page, he said quite casually "You are nothing" Upsetting as you can imagine, although I know (no, change that to presume) he meant he didn't have any of me or the two of us.
Goodness only knows what I say when I speak in Korean. I hate to think. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
I disagree. We are paid to be the experts in the English language, and help our students make their English more like our own. In the classroom is exactly where it must be an issue. You're concerned with us imposing what we "perceive" to be standard English? Our having grown up speaking and reading English for most of our lives, and having been educated to at least the point of a four-year college degree should give us some pretty good insight into what standard English is. Our students are paying for us to share this insight.
Outside of the classroom, I don't really give a rat's ass what unique additions Koreans make to English, Portuguese, Esperanto, or any other language (unless it's a friend that I know wants to improve their English). But in my classroom, Konglish doesn't fly.
I really hope it doesn't in yours, either. |
I'm not saying we should be teaching Konglish. I leave that to the Korean teachers. All I'm saying is that seeing Konglish as an inferior form of English is missing out on the realities of the English language in a global and local context. Although a more standard form of English is prefered for communicating in an international context, the standard is slowly changing as most of the people using English in that setting are non-native speakers. English began being formally taught in Korea in the 1880s for that purpose (and I suspect Konglish did not wait long to appear). Konglish is part of their culture, of their own codified English. It's easy to understand because they use English is different context than the one in which you and I grew up.
I think we both know they will use Konglish no matter what we do, especially outside of the classroom (while teachers have control over the input, students have control over the intake). It's perfectly fine with me. Language cannot be forced upon people. It's not like a disease that can easily be spread in its unadulturated form. English needs to go through a series of changes, the nativization process, as it becomes part of a new culture.
Having lived in Korea, don't you use a few Korean words here and their when you speak in English? Do you agree it would be difficult to forget the Korean words that are now part of your own English lexicon? |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Get me my shovel!
I think you're missing the point. If I want my students to stop saying something, all I have to tell them is "That's Konglish". They don't want to speak Konglish, and they are paying me to help bring their English as close to mine as possible. It does them little good to speak in a form of English that is only understandable to Koreans and expats who live in Korea.
Of course a lot of Korean and Konglish expressions have made it into my lexicon. But I check that at the door when I walk into the classroom, because it's not appropriate there.
Sure all forms of language are equal, including the secret code words and inside jokes I have with my friends and girlfriend. But I don't teach those to my students either. I do my best to teach them English expressions and vocabulary that will be understood by the largest number of English speakers possible.
I don't really have a problem with the use of English-rooted expressions as they are used in Korean (ball pen, conning, netizen, air con, etc.). In fact, I make a point of learning them myself because they are useful when I speak Korean. They're part of the Korean language, and so far as I'm concerned, that's cool. Many Koreans seem to see this as a form of linguistic pollution, but I see it as evolution.
But it leads to confusion when Koreans are trying to learn and use proper English, and it's my job to help them by pointing out the differences. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
Get me my shovel!
I think you're missing the point. If I want my students to stop saying something, all I have to tell them is "That's Konglish". They don't want to speak Konglish, and they are paying me to help bring their English as close to mine as possible. It does them little good to speak in a form of English that is only understandable to Koreans and expats who live in Korea.
Of course a lot of Korean and Konglish expressions have made it into my lexicon. But I check that at the door when I walk into the classroom, because it's not appropriate there.
Sure all forms of language are equal, including the secret code words and inside jokes I have with my friends and girlfriend. But I don't teach those to my students either. I do my best to teach them English expressions and vocabulary that will be understood by the largest number of English speakers possible.
I don't really have a problem with the use of English-rooted expressions as they are used in Korean (ball pen, conning, netizen, air con, etc.). In fact, I make a point of learning them myself because they are useful when I speak Korean. They're part of the Korean language, and so far as I'm concerned, that's cool. Many Koreans seem to see this as a form of linguistic pollution, but I see it as evolution.
But it leads to confusion when Koreans are trying to learn and use proper English, and it's my job to help them by pointing out the differences. |
Shaming your students into submission? Don't you think that's a bit extreme?
Don't see my point? Wait 20 years and we'll talk about it again. |
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dcrayne
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| one of my adult students always started every sentence with " as you may know". Drove me nuts. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| Son Deureo! wrote: |
Get me my shovel!
I think you're missing the point. If I want my students to stop saying something, all I have to tell them is "That's Konglish". |
Shaming your students into submission? Don't you think that's a bit extreme?
Don't see my point? Wait 20 years and we'll talk about it again. |
Saying "That's Konglish" is shaming them into submission? I don't have to stress the point too strongly or humiliate them, just mention "Konglish" and they see it as a bad habit.
If I wanted to humiliate them, I'd say, "Hey numbnuts, why are you wasting your money on my class when you still speak Konglish and can't string a goddam sentence together, even though you've been studying English for as long as you've been able to hold a pair of chopsticks?!?!?!?"
THAT'S shaming them into submission. And I don't need to do that.
Can't see the difference?
Wait 50 years, we'll talk again.
Think you'll have trouble finding the thread? Don't worry, Tiger Beer will dig it up for us. |
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ARTCC
Joined: 26 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:22 am Post subject: |
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My personal favourite (among more advanced students) is misuse of the word "foreigner" .... ie using it as an equivalent to "wakgook" or non-Korean. as in
"My trip to the United States was so interesting, I had never seen so many foreigners before!"
After I asked one student (in a mock MBA interview) how he planned to adapt to American life, he said something like "Well, there are many ways that I plan to get used to living with foreigners..." When I pointed out his mistake, I saw the lightbulb go on over his head ... "OH! That's actually a little bit offensive then, if I go to the US and say that, isn't it?"
ummm... slightly! |
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Ekuboko
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Location: ex-Gyeonggi
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| "Do you have a lover?" |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| "I played with my friends last weekend." (from 30+ year olds) |
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