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Ryst Helmut
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Location: In search of the elusive signature...
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 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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ThePoet,
I think that I may not have explained my stance that well...then again, I was drunk when I posted last....
I still do believe what I said...that online degrees are inherently sub-par than their on-campus counterparts.
I DO believe that there are excellent programs that offer on-line courses (my program has them), and I believe that it is very worthwhile (assuming they've met the criteria #1-#4 you mentioned) to enroll in SOME on-line classes (as long as they are a part of an on campus program).
However, the problem I have is gaining a degree FULLY on line. I know there is a difference between quality...I can easily tell the difference from the few classes I took while in Korea, versus the on campus ones I took Stateside.
Two of the core issues I have against fully on-line degrees is that they lack:
1. Sounding boards. Face to face interaction with professors and other experts/student body is essential. There is SO much I've learned that is not in the books we have to read, nor in any kind of communication that occur via distance education.
1a. Same idea, luncheons, conferences, workshops...we've a great community that really shares information.
2. Literature. I know there is the internet (where you may access a multitude of journals through your univ's library subscription), but come on...there are just as many articles, dissertations, journals and the like that can not be accessed unless you are on campus. Interlibrary loans is one example...and bound journals are priceless! I've spent weeks just sitting in the library going through refereed journals.
If you read the thread I linked to before, you'll see all the other benefits my univ. offers (and many others)...like employment at the univ. language centre with support. Things like this make on campus infinitely better.
Sure, on-line degrees can be had. Sure, they can be good. But right now, they are just not the best thing for learners...at this time.
When the on-line databases get more (read all) journals on-line and when technology freely allows for web(cam) meetings/classes, then and only then will they truly and justly be considered A-class.
But then, I'm jaded....but not closeminded...atleast I hope not!
!shoosh
Ryst |
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Scott in HK
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: now in Incheon..haven't changed my name yet
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Ryst...
I agree with 1 and 2...
I never really felt I was part of a learning community when I was communicating through the online discussion board...and conference calls with other students are not the same as pints in the pub discussing theory...
Although this would make the on campus degree slightly better...it doesn't make distance degrees useless (as was proposed by other posters, not you).
But your third point was not true for my school...except for items that couldn't leave the library...I had access to everything...
Books would be shipped to me free of charge...and then return to the school...I could request any article to be copied and sent to me...I never had a problem getting books...also since I like books I tended by buy mant texts on amazon (used)...
I think that the difference lies in what people wanted out of their degrees. I would agree that anyone who plans to take a doctorate in their field should take their degree on campus. But we are not all taking our courses for purely academic reasons, that is, to increase what is known about our field. I have/had no intentions of trying to add to the body of knowledge in the field of education. I just wanted to know more...to use what others have researched in my classroom.
Most of the teachers I know who have taken higher degrees did it to further their abilities as teachers not so that they could become researchers.
There is the idea that post graduates degrees are reserved for the academic elite...that there are something that only a few can do...to do one set you apart...you wanted to get one from a good school...to impress others and allow you to progress...
But now they are more common...people are taking them because they want/need to know more about chosen field. Teachers are asked to take extra courses to maintain their teaching certificates...so they take Masters courses...and they want to take courses that they can use...they can't take time off work...so they do them by distance.
I would never have been able to do my masters on campus. Couldn't afforded the time and would have lost my senority at my last job. Distance courses may or not be perfect...but they are a choice that meets the needs of many people and they all shouldn't be grouped together and shoved aside as useless.
Maybe Masters degrees will one day fall into two categories..practical and academic...
Forgive the rather disjointed prose...kids are driving nuts... |
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ThePoet
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: No longer in Korea - just lurking here
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Ryst Helmut wrote: |
ThePoet,
However, the problem I have is gaining a degree FULLY on line. I know there is a difference between quality...I can easily tell the difference from the few classes I took while in Korea, versus the on campus ones I took Stateside.
Two of the core issues I have against fully on-line degrees is that they lack:
1. Sounding boards. Face to face interaction with professors and other experts/student body is essential. There is SO much I've learned that is not in the books we have to read, nor in any kind of communication that occur via distance education.
1a. Same idea, luncheons, conferences, workshops...we've a great community that really shares information.
2. Literature. I know there is the internet (where you may access a multitude of journals through your univ's library subscription), but come on...there are just as many articles, dissertations, journals and the like that can not be accessed unless you are on campus. Interlibrary loans is one example...and bound journals are priceless! I've spent weeks just sitting in the library going through refereed journals.
Ryst |
Hi Ryst,
I wanted to address these three issues because I think you have based your beliefs on some subpar online learning programs...so let me state that if you take the wrong online program, you will run into exactly what you are talking about. I actually took two Online programs -- One from Athabasca University (M.D.E.) and another Master's I began from another university from the U.K. but that I will not mention its name unless someone considers taking a Master's from there. But I can tell you it was like the difference between night and day. I was, frankly, spoiled by the AU program. The other program was everything you talked about, but AU has addressed everything you mention...let me cite some examples to each of your statements (needless to say, I am not taking the second MA anymore):
1. Face to Face interaction. First of all, about this...I spoke to my professors via email, telephone, and web-conference more at AU, than I ever spoke to any of my campus professors during my B.Ed. program. But having said that, AU offers their students an opportunity to meet the professors during 2 conferences (DET and CADE) each year, as well as maintaining regular office hours. Anyone can visit their professors at any time during those hours, as long as they don't mind going to Athabasca, Alberta to do so. For me, it was a short drive and I did visit them occasionally. I also web-conferenced and emailed and teleconferenced with my fellow students, AND got to know them better than anyone from my B.Ed. days as well. I was also part of a great community that really shared information.
2. Literature. Again, I cannot speak to the efficacy of liturature at other universities. In fact, at the un named one, I had to buy books via Amazon and I had a real hassle and expense and never did get the right ones. Their readings that they included was sub-par. AU on the other hand, includes all required texts and readings (in hard copy form) as part of the tuition for each course. They are all sent to you and there are no others you need to buy. In addition, the library will send you any extra books you want (you wait a week max to get them) and they have a free-return program so that you can send them back from anywhere in Canada for free. Finally, their online database and subscriptions to a huge number of technical, educational, and trade publications was second to none. I counted over 200 subscriptions I could access, and print out the full document (not just the abstract).
You are right...many universities do not have their stuff together like AU...which is why it is important to research before you commit. But it is also important not to discard them all because of the few bad experiences you've had with one or two.
I am in the minority here, and probably will be for the next 10 - 20 years or so until technology, access, and comfort catch up to the human factor. But, I will tell you right now, just as you've had a few bad experiences and others have as well, taking the MDE as a distance program made me hunger for more. It gave me a zest to learn that I'd never had before, and it made me excited about my potential and ability as a student. I am so passionate about it because I realize now, what passion for education means. So, I do get on my soapbox about it, but only because my experience was probably the best educational experience I'd ever had. I can only hope my Ph.D. experience will be as grand.
Poet |
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Ryst Helmut
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Location: In search of the elusive signature...
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Touche. Point(s) taken. Ok, I'll hire you. When can you start?
!Shoosh
Ryst |
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ThePoet
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: No longer in Korea - just lurking here
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Awww...sorry, I got snapped up by a University here in Daegu for the Intensive Teacher Training Program. Its wonderful, and I even get to teach 4 hours of multimedia each week -- so I am still dabbling in modular learning to keep my skills up.
But thanks for the offer, I believe it to be on the level!
Poet |
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