|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
|
 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:49 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
During Clinton's tenure, the U.S. enjoyed continuous economic expansion, reductions in unemployment, and growing wealth through a massive rise in the stock market. Although the reasons for the expansion are continually debated, Clinton proudly pointed to a number of economic accomplishments, including:
* More than 22 million new jobs
* Homeownership rate increase from 64.0% to 67.5%
* Lowest unemployment in 30 years
* Higher incomes at all levels
* Largest budget deficit in American history converted to the largest surplus
* Lowest government spending as a percentage of GDP since 1974 [3]
* Higher stock ownership by families than ever before
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| joe_doufu wrote: |
They are still influenced by one's own politics; and since most historians are academics, and most academics have never set foot in the real world, they favor Democrats. They ranked JFK as above average, Clinton as average, and Nixon as below average (the same rank as Ford and Carter). The guy who ended Vietnam and began the end of the Cold War gets ranked below "i did not have sexual relations with that woman"... WTF? |
Come on dude. I first thought you were being sarcastic and using satire when you were posting on this forum but I'm frightened to see you're serious.
Of course Nixon is rated below Clinton. Hmm, let's see, what could be worse:
1. Lying about cheating on your wife
2. Covering up a crime committed by your political party
TOUGH CALL.
Nixon began ending the Cold War?? 
Yes, let's see. He:
1. Bombed Laos and Cambodia, both of which became communist. Laos is still communist to this day.
2. Indirectly lied in the 1968 election by hinting he'd come up with a peace agreement. Yeah, 5 freaking years later. Good job Nixon!
3. Looked the other way when Pinochet and his cronies overthrew a democratically elected President
4. Looked the other way when Pakistan killed thousands of Bengalis when trying to keep the country intact (it failed, and Bangladesh was created)
So he made a trip to China. Big F'ing deal. It was bound to happen sooner or later. The only reason he was able to do it was because he was such an avowed anti-communist thanks to his witch hunts back in the 50s that no one could accuse him of selling out to the commies.
Nixon was scum. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mithridates wrote: |
| Quote: |
During Clinton's tenure, the U.S. enjoyed continuous economic expansion, reductions in unemployment, and growing wealth through a massive rise in the stock market. Although the reasons for the expansion are continually debated, Clinton proudly pointed to a number of economic accomplishments, including:
* More than 22 million new jobs
* Homeownership rate increase from 64.0% to 67.5%
* Lowest unemployment in 30 years
* Higher incomes at all levels
* Largest budget deficit in American history converted to the largest surplus
* Lowest government spending as a percentage of GDP since 1974 [3]
* Higher stock ownership by families than ever before
|
|
Yeah, what a sh1tty president he was. MUCH worse than Nixon. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| joe_doufu wrote: |
1. George Washington
2. Franklin Roosevelt
4. George W Bush
5. Theodore Roosevelt
6. Richard Nixon
7. Ronald Reagan
8. (?) James Madison maybe
|
Dubya is better than Reagan? LMAO. Better than TR? Better than Truman?? Are you that ignorant?
What the hell has dubya done?
Reagan:
1. reformed the tax code
2. ended the cold war
TR:
1. First "modern" president, showed off American power
2. Brought the progressive movement to the forefront of american politics. The FDA was due to TR as were anti-trust laws.
3. Built the panama canal
Truman:
1. Created our Cold War policy of containment.
2. Marshall Plan
Those are just off the top of my head. It's late, so can't come up with that much. But, as any historian will tell you, it is hard to judge a president until 30 years after he's left office. So hey, dubya might not look so bad in 2038, but somehow I doubt it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Giving Clinton the credit for a good economy seems a little specious when right after he left office the economy went bad. I've heard that a good rule of thumb is that government fiscal policy takes 6 years to have its effect. So under these rules the credit would seem to go to Bush Sr. Clinton I wouldn't call a bad President, tho. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Are we riding the wave or are we causing the wave? I suspect no one is in control of any of the waves.
|
I'm with Kuros on this one. No necessary contradiction. However, I think current history is too weighted in the necessity direction. Interplay. Interplay.
I'm reminded of the story of Thugnuts. When all the other guys were rolling the pyramid stones along those logs, wearing grooves in the wood, Thugnuts was taking a beer break under the palm tree, day-dreaming the time away. All of a sudden it all came together for him. "Eureka! I've invented the wheel!" It takes genius to see what others don't.
I'm also reminded of the Election of 2000. No one will ever convince me that had Gore been elected, the surplus would not have been squandered. The national debt would not have grown so large. And while we probably would have done much the same in Afghanistan, the voluntary war in Iraq would not have taken place. Thousands of dead people would not be dead yet and their contributions to their societies would still be on going. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Giving Clinton the credit for a good economy seems a little specious when right after he left office the economy went bad. I've heard that a good rule of thumb is that government fiscal policy takes 6 years to have its effect. So under these rules the credit would seem to go to Bush Sr. Clinton I wouldn't call a bad President, tho.
|
I agree with you but for different reasons and different mathematical calculations. Presidents and Congress don't control economies, but their tax policies (and others) heavily influence the way the economy performs. And a lot of what seems to affect economies is 'consumer sentiment' which is a psychological state that is only influenced by governments.
If you are right about 6 years being a good rule of thumb, and I'm certainly not going to argue with economists, one handed or two handed, Clinton was in for 8 years. The bubble burst just as he was leaving office. 8-6=2. I'd say what influence he did have on the economy took place in his early years in office. The good economy in his early years would have been due, in part, to Bush Sr.'s tax increase--which helped people feel the debt was starting to come under control and gave the dot.coms and other industries the confidence to expand and gave people the confidence to buy, buy, buy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| joe_doufu wrote: |
1. George Washington
2. Franklin Roosevelt
4. George W Bush
5. Theodore Roosevelt
6. Richard Nixon
7. Ronald Reagan
8. (?) James Madison maybe
|
Dubya is better than Reagan? LMAO. Better than TR? Better than Truman?? |
Teddy Roosevelt is my personal favorite, personality-wise. He had character. But as a President? He did more as Governor of New York, challenging the political machines, and as Assistant Secretary of the Navy, basically singlehandedly triggering the Spanish-American war. His Presidency was in a more or less unimportant time of American history when we were an isolationist nation.
| Quote: |
Reagan:
1. reformed the tax code
2. ended the cold war
|
I think the cold war started to end with Nixon wrapping up Kennedy's ridiculous Vietnam PR project, and visiting China. Nixon also deserves credit for standing up for Israel in the 1973 Yom Kippur war, without him there might be no Israel today. I'm not saying Reagan wasn't a great president.
| Quote: |
Truman:
1. Created our Cold War policy of containment.
2. Marshall Plan |
He may very well have created the Cold War, or at least failed to prevent it.
| Quote: |
| What the hell has dubya done? |
Ever since that Frenchman sold a giant copper statue to New York, America has claimed to believe in "liberty illuminating the world". We proclaimed our love of freedom and democracy throughout this century but it was really only a code phrase meaning "we support whichever bastards the USSR is against". GW Bush is the first President to really enact the foreign policy our country has always espoused. It gives me immense pride that our nation no longer props up petty dictators like Chiang Kai-Shek and that we're really out there fighting for a better world.
Do you have any idea how monumental the things are that we have done in Afghanistan and Iraq in the past few years? Nobody has ever *founded* a country as a liberal democracy and kept it going. We've created one pretty stable one and another one getting that way. We've brought the hope of peace and democracy to the middle east.
Domestically, GW can has strengthened the Presidency (something like de Gaulle did in France after the war) enabling the administration to achieve more than ever before. He's created an executive branch that's much more effective than any we've had in decades. The subsequent Presidents will be "greater" on your list because of W.
| Quote: |
| Are you that ignorant? |
Excuse me. Screw you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| joe_doufu wrote: |
[Nixon also deserves credit for standing up for Israel in the 1973 Yom Kippur war, without him there might be no Israel today.
I'm not saying Reagan wasn't a great president. |
Israel won because Israel had a good military; Egypt's military sucked. Read some military history won't you? While Egypt did have good generals in 1973 (as opposed to 1967) its lower ranking officers sucked. They had no problems following orders, so initially Egypt kicked ass, but then when Israel launched a counter-attack, Egypt was screwed since it was out of the generals' hands then. The lower-ranking officers had to improvise, but they didn't know how. Consequently, Israel fought Egypt to a draw. The only reason it was considered a loss by Israel and win by Egypt was a) it brought back respect to Egypt b) Israel did get embarrassed
| Quote: |
He may very well have created the Cold War, or at least failed to prevent it. |
Oh please. He:
1. Gave aid to Turkey and Greece, allowing them to supress communist movements
2. Created the Marshall Plan, allowing western europe to stay capitalist
3. The berlin airlift
4. Got us involved in the Korean war
5. Made sure the Commies didn't win elections in Italy
Pretty damn impressive if you ask me.
| Quote: |
GW Bush is the first President to really enact the foreign policy our country has always espoused. It gives me immense pride that our nation no longer props up petty dictators like Chiang Kai-Shek and that we're really out there fighting for a better world. |
You ARE ignorant aren't you?
Yeah, the Sauds are some great guys. They care about women so much they don't let women to drive! And they really like Christians; so much that you can't bring a bible into the country.
Don't forget Pervez Musharraf. He loves democracy too; so much that he decided to stay on as President indefinitly.
And hey, wasn't there a massacre in Uzbekistan earlier this year? Funny, I think we have an airbase there too.
Dude, give me a break.
By the way, if you're going to choose a nasty dictator, Chiang Kai-Shek really isn't a good choice. Taiwan is rather well-off these days. If only the Arab world had such a dictator, things might not be that bad there.
| Quote: |
| Do you have any idea how monumental the things are that we have done in Afghanistan and Iraq in the past few years? Nobody has ever *founded* a country as a liberal democracy and kept it going. We've created one pretty stable one and another one getting that way. We've brought the hope of peace and democracy to the middle east. |
Didn't you hear about the Navy SEALS a week or two ago? How about the helicopter that was recently shot down by Afghanis killing other GIs? Yeah, it's really stable. Iraq is getting stable? Uh yeah, that's why the casualty rate has remained the same month after month.
| Quote: |
| Domestically, GW can has strengthened the Presidency (something like de Gaulle did in France after the war) enabling the administration to achieve more than ever before. He's created an executive branch that's much more effective than any we've had in decades. The subsequent Presidents will be "greater" on your list because of W. |
Eh, and this is a good thing? I'm all about check and balances myself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Domestically, GW can has strengthened the Presidency |
A president whose party controls both houses of Congress doesn't have to be very good to look good. This one has failed to get his Social Security plot off the ground (rightly so), he's been trying to get his nominee into the UN since April and hasn't managed it so far, and he's allowed billions to be squandered without making things safer.
We spent $100,000 in Des Moines to buy traffic cones to make Des Moines safe in case it is hit by terrorists. Frog Spit, Alaska got 1/2 million to stockpile survival stuff in case people were driving past on the highway when the town is hit by the fanatics (who obviously couldn't read a map if they hit that place). 60 Minutes did a piece on this stuff last night. Billions and billions have been squandered on Bush's watch. And I didn't even say anything about the foolishness of lowering taxes and starting a $5 billion a month war.
And speaking of squandering, what about squandering the reputation of the country?
And he has 3 1/2 more years to perfect his game. Will the Republic survive? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
deleted
Last edited by Gopher on Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| 60 Minutes did a piece on this stuff last night. Billions and billions have been squandered on Bush's watch. |
Oh, I'm arguing against people who get their news from *CBS*, lol. Why don't you just look at "doonesbury" for your opinions; it's less biased! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
why don't you stop spewing out crap you get from Rush, Michael Savage, and company and come up with EVIDENCE? And PROOF? And FACTS?
My god man. At least try to put some effort into a rebuttal. Pathetic. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
Don't forget Pervez Musharraf. He loves democracy too; so much that he decided to stay on as President indefinitly.
...
By the way, if you're going to choose a nasty dictator, Chiang Kai-Shek really isn't a good choice. Taiwan is rather well-off these days. If only the Arab world had such a dictator, things might not be that bad there.
|
Chiang-Kai Shek was a murdering warlord, surpassed in brutality only by Mao himself. He is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. When Chiang died, his son changed the country into a liberal democracy because the Cold War was ending and he knew the US would no longer prop up a dictator in Taiwan. This is *exactly* what I think is good about the recent developments in US foreign policy. We're doing what we're saying.
Now as to Pervez Musharraf, don't you understand that he is your and my best friend? If that country had free elections, they would instantly vote for the Taliban jew-murdering party, and start distributing nukes to Al-Qaida.
Liberty and Democracy do not go hand in hand, they are in fact opposites and exist in balance. Liberty is more important, by the way. Remember Nazi Germany was a Democracy.
When Musharraf gets assassinated (and he will) Pakistan will be worse off. In Turkey, too, the military has tended to dissolve elected governments when the hardline Islamists win. It's not a dream system but it is better than nothing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dan
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Sunny Glendale, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jimmy Carter - It's ironic that he is so widely regarded as a poor president, and yet so highly regarded as an ex-president. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
