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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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bositang wrote:
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| blah blah blah and more blah |
Pretty much sums up all you have to say doesnt it?
Sure you can get screwed over left right and center here if you have an asshole for a boss. That can happen anywhere
BUT
If you have a halfways decent contract there is less chance of that happening AND you have grounds to refuse changes. Sign a poorly worded contract and they can say whatever they want and you cant say squat back because you were stupid enough to sign your ass away! |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| bosintang wrote: |
| You got what you got because you were in Korea and have experience, not because you nitpicked over a contract from across the ocean. |
First of all, I have no interest in the bosintang vs. grotto issue, so please don't interpret this as taking sides in that...
bosintang: you and I have disagreed on this board, but I think this point is a very good point. My point, perhaps better stated now, is that unless you're going to stay in Korea for several years as an EFL instructor, then that first year may not be worth it.
I would concede that there appear to be valuable EFL jobs here, but apparently people need to bite the bullet their first year in order to learn all the pitfalls. Again, if you're looking to save money for a year, then Korea may simply be more trouble than it's worth as contracts are rarely worth the paper they are written on here.
So, bosintang, if you don't see any problem in that, then maybe we don't really disagree. |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| bosintang wrote: |
| You got what you got because you were in Korea and have experience, not because you nitpicked over a contract from across the ocean. |
bosintang: you and I have disagreed on this board, but I think this point is a very good point. My point, perhaps better stated now, is that unless you're going to stay in Korea for several years as an EFL instructor, then that first year may not be worth it.
I would concede that there appear to be valuable EFL jobs here, but apparently people need to bite the bullet their first year in order to learn all the pitfalls. Again, if you're looking to save money for a year, then Korea may simply be more trouble than it's worth as contracts are rarely worth the paper they are written on here.
So, bosintang, if you don't see any problem in that, then maybe we don't really disagree. |
I think you're right, we don't really disagree. If someone has the start-up money to go elsewhere, the right qualifications, etc. etc., I simply would not reccomend to them to come to Korea. It's a big world out there and Korea's simply not worth it, and no matter what other people say on this board, I'm highly skeptical that this work experience is really going to count for much when we return to our home countries, so unless you're here for the long-term -- and I do mean long-term -- it's not worth it to think it has any value career-wise.
Basically, in Korea, you're treated as a paid English-speaking novelty, a third-rate teacher at best. This is particularly true for children's hagwons. The fact that they will trust anyone to teach English to their children says a lot about what kind of respect parents and "educators" have for the profession.
However if you were a bum like I was, or living in your parents basement, waiting to make that next move, and you have some adventurous spirit in you and are the type who can go with the flow, then why not give Korea a shot? You get a free plane ticket and job on arrival, and assuming you can dodge the landmines or at least soften their impact, it's not a terrible salary. Not many other places can say that. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you everybody for your responses! I have decided not to accept this job. I have been given a ticket on air canada from Toronto to Inchon by a generous relative with many travel points. My flight is booked for Monday the 14th. Toronto to Inchon......so I have some more questions and I am going to start another thread later. |
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Kim Jong Jordan
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Location: The Internet
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| It sounds too shady to accept. Shop around, you'll find something better. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| bosintang wrote: |
[..., I'm highly skeptical that this work experience is really going to count for much when we return to our home countries, so unless you're here for the long-term -- and I do mean long-term -- it's not worth it to think it has any value career-wise...
. |
Huh? There are quite a few people who have returned and found that this work experience DID count for something. They took up a teaching position at home and were given credit for those years in Korea. There have been several threads about this, one quite recently. I'm sure if you really want to know, you can do a search and find this out. |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bosintang wrote: |
[..., I'm highly skeptical that this work experience is really going to count for much when we return to our home countries, so unless you're here for the long-term -- and I do mean long-term -- it's not worth it to think it has any value career-wise...
. |
Huh? There are quite a few people who have returned and found that this work experience DID count for something. They took up a teaching position at home and were given credit for those years in Korea. There have been several threads about this, one quite recently. I'm sure if you really want to know, you can do a search and find this out. |
I did a search and didn't come up with anything other than conjecture. Do you have any links? And seriously, despite what you think might be negativity in my post, I really do want to believe this is true. I do plan on going home some time. |
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seoulmon
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| RachaelRoo wrote: |
| Thank you everybody for your responses! I have decided not to accept this job. I have been given a ticket on air canada from Toronto to Inchon by a generous relative with many travel points. My flight is booked for Monday the 14th. Toronto to Inchon......so I have some more questions and I am going to start another thread later. |
Can I am curious about your situation and I'd like to ask some questions so I get a clear idea as to what your on about.
1. Why did you deceide to turn down the job.
2. What is the most important thing for you? Money?
3. What are you most worried about? Getting screwed over by an evil boss?
4. It sounds like you are a Kyopo. That means you can get an awesome VISA that allows you a lot of freedom. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:46 am Post subject: |
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I turned the job down because I am getting better offers and decided that I could do better. The director can barely speak English and I think this may be a problem. The contract is not terrible, but it could be better. The recruiter I spoke with seemed a bit shady from what I could gather. Also, the school is small - only one other foreign teacher - and only two years old. I have read on EFL law that this is riskier. I am very glad I got so much feedback on this contract, it really helped me make a decision.
I wouldn't say money is THE most important thing, but I also care about my future. I think I would enjoy teaching as a way to earn money, but I don't work for fun. The opportunity to save over $1000 a month as a teacher in Korea is very important in my decision to come here. Many of my friends from university have graduated with similarly useless degrees (mine is in polisci) and are either unemployed or earning, if they are lucky, survival wages. One day, I might want to own my own home or business - I don't have grandiose ambitions by any standard, but this is just not gonna happen if I stay in Canada. I couldn't possibly save this kind of money on some $14 hour job in Canada, which is what I could get if I tried hard. Really, I would be lucky if I could pay my rent, buy food, and properly clothe myself. Gopher previously asked if things were really so bad in Canada - and in my opinion, the answer is YES. That is why there are so many of us leaving. This country has a population of only 30m, yet we are the primary source of foreign teachers and this is because Canada is cold, poor, and lacking in opportunity. It has its good points, fer sure, but for a young woman in my situation, who doesn't have family connections that can get me a good job, or a relative in the government, my options to build a good life for myself are few. Maybe I could work my a@@ off at some garbage job and hope to one day climb the ranks to middle management in 5 or 10 years, and if I never have children, maybe start to save a bit then. This is not good enough for me.
I am concerned about getting screwed by some evil boss. This has happened to me so many times in Canada, and that was stressful enough. If that happened in a strange country it would be even worse I'm sure. I can adapt easily to new situations, but of course if I have a relatively good school and director my time in Korea will be much better.
I am not a Kyopo, I am blond/blue. I am curious though - what gave you the impression that I might be Kyopo? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Rachael: just come here with your own return ticket, hidden away, for whenever you might need it. Don't surrender your diploma or your passport to anyone. Just decline when they ask. Find your embassy in advance and develop a plan to get to them and get a replacement passport if necessary, and find out the procedures for getting out of the country with a new unstamped passport.
If you do this, then you'll be coming here with a decent insurance policy to lean back on...
(If you're thinking that this is bullshiat, that you shouldn't have to create such an insurance policy for a simple EFL job, then you are looking at Korea the way that I do...but I don't think you're there yet. And your description of professional life in Canada sounds terrible, so I can understand why.) |
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seoulmon
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| RachaelRoo wrote: |
I turned the job down because I am getting better offers and decided that I could do better. The director can barely speak English and I think this may be a problem. The contract is not terrible, but it could be better. The recruiter I spoke with seemed a bit shady from what I could gather. Also, the school is small - only one other foreign teacher - and only two years old. I have read on EFL law that this is riskier. I am very glad I got so much feedback on this contract, it really helped me make a decision.
I wouldn't say money is THE most important thing, but I also care about my future. I think I would enjoy teaching as a way to earn money, but I don't work for fun. The opportunity to save over $1000 a month as a teacher in Korea is very important in my decision to come here. Many of my friends from university have graduated with similarly useless degrees (mine is in polisci) and are either unemployed or earning, if they are lucky, survival wages. One day, I might want to own my own home or business - I don't have grandiose ambitions by any standard, but this is just not gonna happen if I stay in Canada. I couldn't possibly save this kind of money on some $14 hour job in Canada, which is what I could get if I tried hard. Really, I would be lucky if I could pay my rent, buy food, and properly clothe myself. Gopher previously asked if things were really so bad in Canada - and in my opinion, the answer is YES. That is why there are so many of us leaving. This country has a population of only 30m, yet we are the primary source of foreign teachers and this is because Canada is cold, poor, and lacking in opportunity. It has its good points, fer sure, but for a young woman in my situation, who doesn't have family connections that can get me a good job, or a relative in the government, my options to build a good life for myself are few. Maybe I could work my a@@ off at some garbage job and hope to one day climb the ranks to middle management in 5 or 10 years, and if I never have children, maybe start to save a bit then. This is not good enough for me.
I am concerned about getting screwed by some evil boss. This has happened to me so many times in Canada, and that was stressful enough. If that happened in a strange country it would be even worse I'm sure. I can adapt easily to new situations, but of course if I have a relatively good school and director my time in Korea will be much better.
I am not a Kyopo, I am blond/blue. I am curious though - what gave you the impression that I might be Kyopo? |
Well, the reason I asked if you were a Kyopo is because that's a whole nother world. They play by different rules. I thought you might be a Kyopo because you hoped over here without a job.
Good luck on not finding an evil boss. I know some people who live to show up at the work place and get a feel for the place by stepping into it and lookign around.
Your right about doing better. Sure the job doesn't sound bad, but again, you could do better. I hiope you find a job. Yes, there are a lot of wicked hogwons but there are also a lot of cool places to work too. Good luck! |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| bosintang wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bosintang wrote: |
[..., I'm highly skeptical that this work experience is really going to count for much when we return to our home countries, so unless you're here for the long-term -- and I do mean long-term -- it's not worth it to think it has any value career-wise...
. |
Huh? There are quite a few people who have returned and found that this work experience DID count for something. They took up a teaching position at home and were given credit for those years in Korea. There have been several threads about this, one quite recently. I'm sure if you really want to know, you can do a search and find this out. |
I did a search and didn't come up with anything other than conjecture. Do you have any links? And seriously, despite what you think might be negativity in my post, I really do want to believe this is true. I do plan on going home some time. |
Unfortunately the thread I was thinking of seems to be deleted or lost. However you could always make a new thread and ask for people's experiences in finding work(teaching) after they went home. . I'm sure you'll get a few replies. |
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koryo1
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:15 am Post subject: |
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To the OP:
You made a very wise decision.
That contract was shite.
Nothing redeeming in it whatsoever -- that was a contract that the lowest, scummiest, child-molestor who couldn't properly speak English could match or do better at. That's not meant as any sort of slam against anyone. I only read 120 hours, 1.9. Then saw a few of the other minor, negative points. No one has a worse contract than that. Many might have a similar one, but who could have a worse one? To all who are considering a job here: 120 hours for 2.0 is not anything special. There are literally several hundred such jobs at any one point. It would be much better to simple work 'illegal' privates than anything like that. 120 hours is a lot of teaching hours = fast burnout, espcecially if there's little money being put away to relieve the stress of those hours.
Good move lass. |
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