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Sooke
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Location: korea
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 Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:00 am Post subject: |
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ahhh, good ol' sicmuse.com. This guy is just as wacky as you say whatreallyhappened.com is. He calls the Guardian "Al-Ghardiyan" (that's clever  ), ridicules Rachel Corrie's death, and seems to have a hard on for the Mossad and the IDF. Nope, no bias there. [So besides his one man crusade, his site has hardly been updated since 2003, and few links work.]
Anyway, I just googled in the keywords and got the article. If YOU say he's an anti-semite (even though I can't find anything on the site), HE MUST BE AN ANTI-SEMITE. It's not like it's my favourite site and all my information comes from it. It just had the article which had stuff I wanted to use. Next time, I will read everything on the website to be sure the website opertor has never been accused of anti-semitism.
(As I sidenote, I googled your screen name with "racist" and got 30 hits. I guess that makes you a racist. Don't worry, I googled you screen name with "dummy" and only got four.  )
I like how neo-conts always sling the "anti-semite" label when they're being spanked.
OK. I'm ready for some more edjumacation!!! |
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Sooke
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Hey man, are you posting your posts and then editing them and making them longer? I reply to one post only to find out it has mysteriously grown bigger. Trippy. There must be acid in my rye. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| [quote="Sooke"]ahhh, good ol' sicmuse.com. This guy is just as wacky as you say whatreallyhappened.com is. He calls the Guardian "Al-Ghardiyan" (that's clever ), ridicules Rachel Corrie's death, and seems to have a hard on for the Mossad and the IDF. Nope, no bias there. [So besides his one man crusade, his site has hardly been updated since 2003, and few links work.] |
Micheal Rivero is a holocaust denier
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| Anyway, I just googled in the keywords and got the article. If YOU say he's an anti-semite (even though I can't find anything on the site), HE MUST BE AN ANTI-SEMITE. It's not like it's my favourite site and all my information comes from it. It just had the article which had stuff I wanted to use. Next time, I will read everything on the website to be sure the website opertor has never been accused of anti-semitism. |
go into his site and you will find out more.
| Quote: |
| (As I sidenote, I googled your screen name with "racist" and got 30 hits. I guess that makes you a racist. Don't worry, I googled you screen name with "dummy" and only got four. ) |
Micheal Rivero is a holocaust denier.
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| I like how neo-conts always sling the "anti-semite" label when they're being spanked. |
I love how the antiwar movment allows bigots along side themselves. Maybe cause they secretly agree with it.
You are losing and U know it.
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| OK. I'm ready for some more edjumacation!!! |
What does that mean?
Anyway I got more for you .
| Quote: |
Mike Rivero whatreallyhappened.com
A site that is often good (it never fell for the "no plane at Pentagon" hoax) but also has supported the cause of neo-Nazi Ernst Zundel. A kind interpretation would be that this site is so angry at Israeli genocide of the Palestinians that they fail to understand the reality of the Nazi holocaust.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/week_2005_02_27.html
Holocaust Survivor Memoir Exposed As Total Fraud (an article from rense.com - which also promotes Zundel)
Zundel: His Freedom Is Our Freedom
German Free Speech Supporters Protest For Zundel
Ernst Zundel denied basic rights to fairness and justice
Letters In Response To The Ernst Zundel Deportation |
http://www.oilempire.us/holocaust-denial.html
but I got more.
Mike Rivero whatreallyhappened.com
| Quote: |
A site that is often good (it never fell for the "no plane at Pentagon" hoax) but also has supported the cause of neo-Nazi Ernst Zundel. A kind interpretation would be that this site is so angry at Israeli genocide of the Palestinians that they fail to understand the reality of the Nazi holocaust.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/week_2005_02_27.html
Holocaust Survivor Memoir Exposed As Total Fraud (an article from rense.com - which also promotes Zundel)
Zundel: His Freedom Is Our Freedom
German Free Speech Supporters Protest For Zundel
Ernst Zundel denied basic rights to fairness and justice
Letters In Response To The Ernst Zundel Deportation |
http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/42317
What Really Happens at whatreallyhappened.com?.
| Quote: |
What Really Happens at whatreallyhappened.com?
The role of the conspiracy theorist is not to provide answers but to raise the questions not being asked - to sniff out suspicious patterns and duplicitous sources. Casting a critical eye at mainstream media is but one necessary task, casting a critical eye at self-proclaimed independent media is another - after all, conspiracies don't conveniently end at corporate boundaries.
One independent website of note, whatreallyhappened.com, is widely referenced by conspiracy theorists the world over. Yet for a website dedicated to exposing hidden truths, there is a suspicious lack of information about those who support the enterprise. Only the editorial commentator Michael Rivero is a public identified participant, as referenced by a couple links to off-site interviews (home page, bottom left corner).
While it is true that Michael Rivero's has been published numerous times on well-established sites like Rense, the Yellow Times, and the World Net Daily, strangely his interviews were conducted by two obscure websites, GoOff! and BankIndex. This peculiar choice of "media outlets" as a promotional tool deserved a closer look.
The GoOff.com interview: GoOff! is backed by www.dandelionbooks.net">Dandelion Books, LLC, who happens to be the publisher of Michael Rivero's soon to be released hard-back, Cyber Soldiers And Silicon Patriots: The New Face Of Political Dissent ( ISBN189330230X - $18.95). GoOff! purports to tell the "...truth uncensored" - conveniently packaged as Dandelion books, advertised on-site, and available for purchase or redistribution through their affiliate program. Overseeing the entire operation is a group named PMC4, LLC.
The BankIndex interview: Conducted by J. Conti (who also writes for GoOff.com) the interview comprises of three parts, between advertisements for loans, foreclosure notices, debt consolidations, and credit cards offers endorsed by BankIndex. The site also "provides a global platform upon which the Financial Businesses of the world can showcase their product lines and services" and "for select Financial Institutions we offer a highly competitive fee structure to be included in our different promotional plans 'Showcase' arena." It just so happens that BankIndex is a division of PMC4, LLC.
So why would Michael Rivero, an avowed anti-globalist, anti-corporate champion of the truth be working for (or very closely with) a corporate operation like PMC4, LLC? Perhaps it's better to ask what is the nature of Aventura, Florida corporation's business; "From web hosting to options to mutli-faceted revenue generation strategies, PMC4, LLC offers a variety of services and solutions intended to optimize your path to profitability." Their objective is to specialize "in assisting small to medium sized businesses as well as Fortune 100 companies whose presence on the Internet is more than ancillary to their core business."
The "About Us" section reveals five key figures behind the PMC4 corporate structure: James P. Garib, founder of an Intellectual property development firm; Peter Sordjan, a technology-focused financial entrepreneur; Ruben D. Lupulescu, a former computer engineer for Hughes Electronics and DirectTV Latin America; Lawrence D. Kruguer, a seasoned marketing VP for fat-cats like American Express, SportsLine, and Alamo Rent-a-Car; and Rico M. Sogocio, attorney and former member of the United States Department of Justice.
As you might have guessed, the aforementioned Dandelion Books belongs to the family of PMC4 holdings. Presided by Carol Adler, an experienced ghostwriter specializing in Christian and family writing, conspiracies form the staple product of this publisher. Carol Adler's duties including writing reviews of her products as evidenced in this piece that appeared on Rense (Gordon Thomas's book about Chinese plans to attack the U.S. via Canada).
To bring the focus back on Michael Rivero, we find that he is "a twenty-year veteran in all aspects of TV and feature film production with an emphasis in film effects and computer animation. He is a co-founder and producer at Home Baked Music, a Hawaii-based production company." His credits include: "director of film projects for Robert Abel & Associates, where he was responsible for animation and computer graphics, and optical processing. Prior to Abel, he was employed by Hanna Barbera Productions as a computer graphics engineer and helped create various innovative strides in animation. Mr. Rivero was also on the feature film staff of Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation and through his career has assisted and been involved with feature films and television shows such as "Valley of the Dolls" (M-O-W), "Star Trek" (the motion picture), and NBC's "Amazing Stories" (series), among many others. Mr. Rivero's awards credits include gold, silver, and bronze medals from the New York International Film Festivals, two Clios in graphics, the Cable Car award at the San Francisco Film Festival, an Emmy nomination, and gold & silver Hugos"
As for his writing credentials, to prove to be less stellar. For example, Michael Rivero's challenge of Vincent Foster's suicide, as documented by Dan E. Moldea's published research, was never satisfactorily resolved:
"In a Free Republic post at 16:55:55 PST on 12/31/2000, professional conspiracy theorist and Clinton-hater Michael Rivero made a series of false and misleading claims about my honest, wholly-responsible, and well-researched 1998 book, A Washington Tragedy: How the Death of Vincent Foster Ignited a Political Firestorm. Rivero's participation in this thread was apparently provoked by an earlier defense, posted by Kevin Fornshill, the U.S. Park Police (USPP) officer who discovered Foster's body at Fort Marcy Park. In fact, Rivero's post was a response to Fornshill, who had lauded my work on the Foster case. (To read the first chapter of this book, please click "First Chapters.") . . .
. . . final note: I attempted to post this reply to Rivero's shoddy work at the Free Republic on January 3. However, when I attempted to log on, I discovered that I had been permanently banned from the site, apparently for having the audacity to go there and aggressively defend myself from time to time. (See: The Free Republic must be held accountable.)
After an exchange of e-mails, Jim Robinson, the overlord of the Free Republic, confirmed the banning to me, insisting, "I do not want trouble on the website." However, in an obvious effort to protect his legal position, Robinson then deleted the entire thread on which Rivero's irresponsible statements were made.
Nevertheless, my response stands.
More troubling was this brazen misquote caught by sharp-eyed blogger, Damian Penny:
20.5.02
This is long overdue, but CAMERA, a pro-Israel media watchdog, has confirmed that Ariel Sharon's "We, the Jewish people, control America" quote is a hoax.
(I sent this article to Michael Rivero, who repeats the quote 5 or 6 times a day. Let's see if he responds.)
7:57PM
Rivero responds! Wow. Michael Rivero actually responded to an e-mail I sent drawing his attention to the story debunking Ariel Sharon's alleged "We, the Jewish people, control America" quote. He didn't mention that story, though. Instead, he pounced upon my pointing out that the false quote was spread by a group linked to Hamas - which Rivero calls an Israeli front group. Here's the complete text of his message:
The same HAMAS that was set up and funded by Shin Bet to be Arafat's opposition, yeah, I know them.
Oh, touche!
A history lesson: there's a very tiny kernel of truth in Rivero's statement. It seems hard to believe, but at one point the Israelis did funnel money to Hamas as part of a divide-and-conquer strategy. Initially they were more opposed to Arafat than they were to the Israelis, though there seems to have been a thaw in recent years. (Arafat does allow Hamas to run schools and other services within his territory, after all.)
Needless to say, the strategy has come back to haunt the Israelis, time and time again - not unlike America's funding of the anti-Soviet mujahadeen in Afghanistan, some of whom later became the Taliban. It's a gigantic leap, however, to comclude that Hamas - which calls for the complete destruction of Israel and establishment of a strict Islamic state - is secretly a pro-Israel group whose sole mission is to give Ariel Sharon an excuse to kill Palestinians. But then again, if there's one thing we know about Michael Rivero, he has no problem with making gigantic logical leaps
6:39 AM
Michael Rivero even went so far as to suggest that the infamously inaccurate Ariel Sharon quote was cited by Robert Fisk:
06/26/02 Robert Fisk: I wonder why Bush doesn't let Sharon run his press office "I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it."-- Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres, October 3rd, 2001, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
It should come as no surprise that Michael Rivero's deliberately promoted one of the most vindictive 9/11 myths, attributed by various investigators to Al-Manar Television, "A Lebanese TV station that aims to preserve the islamic values and to enhance the civilized role of the Arab and Islamic Community. Al-Manar is the first Arab establishment to stage an effective psychological warfare against the Zionist enemy."
by: Michael Rivero
rivero (at) whatreallyhappened.com">rivero (at) whatreallyhappened.com
Before the dust had settled from the collapse of the World Trade Towers, Israel's foreign ministry had expressed concern for the well being of 4000 Israelis known to have worked in or near the World Trade Towers. But almost immediately, stories of such concern vanished from the media amid reports in the foreign press which claimed that Israelis who worked in or near the World Trade Towers were specifically given advanced warnings not to go to work on 9-11. One Israeli owned company, Odigo, had received a two hour advance warning of the attacks.
Israeli supporters were soon flooding the US media with denials of the story. Even when the US media's spiking of the Israeli spy ring/phone tap story proved a clear pro-Israel propaganda bias, the claim that Israelis working in the area of the WTC were preferentially absent on 9-11 was still dismissed as an internet legend.
Now, however, as the final tally of 9-11 victims is being generated, CNN's own website, which lists 9-11 victims by nationality, shows that only one Israeli, Alona Avraham, died in the 9-11 attacks and that Mr. Avraham was not in or near the WTC, but a passenger on one of the hijacked aircraft.
Because of Odigo, it is beyond question warnings were sent to Israeli owned or linked companies in the area of the WTC. Because of the almost complete absence of Israelis among the victims, it is now apparent how widespread that warning had to have been.
No retraction or correction has ever been for any of these statements. Perhaps it's due in large perhaps to Michael Rivero's conspiratorial pedigree. Long before whatreallyhappened, Michael Rivero gained national exposure for his part in the TWA Flight 800 controversy. Yet earlier still was he found himself corroborating with a secretive American military group, the Special Forces Underground. Led by Green Beret Steven Barry who claims to have commanded the secretive elite forces group since 1992, he also served as editor of the quarterly newsletter, The Resister. Typical commentary sanctioned a white supremacist agenda; "The United States military was created by white men for white men to defend a white nation. It wasn't designed as a multicultural, diverse, touchy-feely, huggy-snuggly social experiment in race relations. ... Twenty years ago, you could trust a black to do a job. Now it' s questionable." |
http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/42317 |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Sooke wrote: |
| Trippy. There must be acid in my rye. |
No acid, but the psychedelic Baywatch dude who's big in Germany causes my head to ache whenever I try to read your posts... |
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Sooke
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
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| France is helping in Afghanistan. |
France vetoes Afghan mission
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By David R. Sands
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
France yesterday blocked a U.S.-backed plan to use a special NATO force to safeguard elections in Afghanistan this fall, despite a plea from Afghan leaders that the troops are badly needed.
French President Jacques Chirac's veto of the plan on the second and final day of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's summit in Istanbul was the latest in a string of direct rebukes to President Bush in recent days and a sign that French-U.S. relations have not overcome the bitter divisions stemming from the Iraq war last year. |
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040630-120807-9389r.htm
Germany
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At a meeting of NATO defense ministers in Romania on Wednesday, Germany objected to Washington's proposal for NATO forces to take over the US military mission in Afghanistan as part of next year's reorganization efforts.
German Defense Minister Peter Struck, who met NATO counterparts including US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld for informal talks in Romania, told reporters he opposed the proposal to integrate the NATO peacekeeping force in Afghanistan within the 18,000 strong US-led combat mission fighting remnants of the Taliban and al Qaeda |
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1360150,00.html
TROOPS: NATO-led peacekeepers such as these patrolling Kabul last month, will not see large deployments of fellow troops, which officials say NATO countries are reluctant to commit.
AHMAD MASOOD/REUTERS
NATO far from relieving US forces in Afghanistan
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You can't make a plan until you know who will give what," says Squadron Leader Paul Rice, a spokesman for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Kabul. "We're going to piece together whatever we can get our hands on."
So far that amounts to little more than 5,700 troops. |
Most of them are from the UK
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The 18 non-US countries in the alliance have between them a total of 1.5 million regular troops as well as 7,000 helicopters and other air-power capabilities, officials say.
Despite this, ISAF in Kabul currently has only three helicopters, and relies on the US military to provide close air support, medical evacuations, and resupply. |
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1209/p07s01-wosc.html
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The United States began building the coalition on September 12, 2001, and there are currently 70 nations supporting the global war on terrorism. To date, 21 nations have deployed more than 16,000 troops to the U.S. Central Command��s region of responsibility. This coalition of the willing is working hard every day to defeat terrorism, wherever it may exist.
In Afghanistan alone, our coalition partners are contributing nearly 8,000 troops to Operation Enduring Freedom and to the International Security Assistance Force in Kabul – making up over half of the 15,000 non-Afghan forces in Afghanistan. The war against terrorism is a broad-based effort that will take time. Every nation has different circumstances and will participate in different ways. This mission and future missions will require a series of coalitions ready to take on the challenges and assume the risks associated with such an operation. |
Wow 8,000 troops . Take away the forces of England and Austalia and how many do you get then? |
Why, that's 8,000 more to go fight terra' in Iraq so you don't have to fight terra' at home.
ISAF contributing nations
(as of 21 February 2005)
NATO Nations
Belgium 616
Bulgaria 37
Canada 992
Czech Republic 17
Denmark 122
Estonia 10
France 742
Germany 1816
Greece 171
Hungary 159
Iceland 20
Italy 506
Latvia 9
Lithuania 9
Luxemburg 10
Netherlands 311
Norway 313
Poland 5
Portugal 21
Romania 72
Slovakia 16
Slovenia 27
Spain 551
Turkey 825
United Kingdom 461
United States 89
Partner Nations
Albania 22
Austria 3
Azerbaijan 22
Croatia 45
Finland 61
former Yougoslov Republic of Macedonia (1) 20
Ireland 10
Sweden 85
Switzerland 4
Non-NATO / Non-EAPC nations
New Zealand 5
http://www.nato.int/issues/afghanistan/040628-factsheet.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/oef_orbat_isaf6.htm
(Both links have the same numbers.)
My math isn't too good, but I was taught that 1816 (Germany) was bigger than 461 (United Kingdom). Damn my liberal accounting methods!!!
And of course we all know that 992 Canadian Soldiers (which is more than Australia's O ) is worth, like, 2000 US soldiers. 
Daaaamnn!! Just look at these guys.
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Sooke
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
No acid, but the psychedelic Baywatch dude who's big in Germany causes my head to ache whenever I try to read your posts... |
Yeah, it's sexy alright. I don't know whether to eat it or f@&k it. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Why, that's 8,000 more to go fight terra' in Iraq so you don't have to fight terra' at home.
ISAF contributing nations
(as of 21 February 2005)
NATO Nations
Belgium 616
Bulgaria 37
Canada 992
Czech Republic 17
Denmark 122
Estonia 10
France 742
Germany 1816
Greece 171
Hungary 159
Iceland 20
Italy 506
Latvia 9
Lithuania 9
Luxemburg 10
Netherlands 311
Norway 313
Poland 5
Portugal 21
Romania 72
Slovakia 16
Slovenia 27
Spain 551
Turkey 825
United Kingdom 461
United States 89 |
Germany has 1900 soliders.
Germany has 80,000,000 people
How many does the US have in Bosina which helps Europe more than the US 5,000
and France has 750 soliders in Afghanistan.
Mind you that most of these soldiers are peace keepers and not in combat role.
see 89 US soldiers
it is a peacekeeping mission , like Timor is a peace keeping mission. |
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Sooke
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
I love how the antiwar movment allows bigots along side themselves. Maybe cause they secretly agree with it.
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Hey, listen dude,
I said that I googled the words "Bush+ruin+economy" and got that article. Now you're calling me a bigot and implying that I'm a holocaust denier and an Ernst Zundel supporter. WTF dude? Looks to me like your losing the arguement and are resorting to unfounded and ridiculous 'anti-semitism' comments. That's how the neo-conts work. Here's another one... Even though I commanded a Swift boat in Vietnam I was a coward and faked my purple hearts. Looks like you're trying to "Rove" me.
Seriously, googled the artcle, and have checked the site. I haven't found any Holocaust denial stuff. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Sooke wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
I love how the antiwar movment allows bigots along side themselves. Maybe cause they secretly agree with it. |
Now you're calling me a bigot and implying that I'm a holocaust denier and an Ernst Zundel supporter. WTF dude? Looks to me like your losing the arguement and are resorting to unfounded and ridiculous 'anti-semitism' comments... |
He does that kind of thing a lot. Hang around a while and you'll notice it often. He's compared Cindy Sheehan to militant militia groups hiding up in the hills in Idaho, and did that again just after reading a quote of her saying, "I'm with Dr King." If Cindy is with Dr King AND she is with miltia groups - what does it say about where this guy's head is at? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Sooke
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Hey, listen dude,
I said that I googled the words "Bush+ruin+economy" and got that article. Now you're calling me a bigot and implying that I'm a holocaust denier and an Ernst Zundel supporter. WTF dude? Looks to me like your losing the arguement and are resorting to unfounded and ridiculous 'anti-semitism' comments. That's how the neo-conts work. Here's another one... Even though I commanded a Swift boat in Vietnam I was a coward and faked my purple hearts. Looks like you're trying to "Rove" me.
Seriously, googled the artcle, and have checked the site. I haven't found any Holocaust denial stuff |
where did I call you a Zundal supporter?
I don't really know anything else about you.
You came up with a bad source of info and I called you on it. Then you tried your best to defend the source. Why not just come up with another source? why are you trying so hard to defend Whatreallyhappened?
then you gave us something (paraphrase) about that Neo Cons are just trying to shut up someone who is critical of Israel.Notice that Israel wasn't even the topic here.
that was prompted my coment about that antiwar movement. You started it.
I just pointed out that WRH is an anti-semetic web site and so it is a terrible source then you started about the Neo cons.
Sooke
| Quote: |
I like how neo-conts always sling the "anti-semite" label when they're being spanked.
OK. I'm ready for some more edjumacation!!! |
You are right that is just as bad as when Jew haters claim they are only anti zionists
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The 2004 Ban on David Irving's visit to NZ: Blunt Answers to some Frequently Asked Questions |
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/week_2004_09_19.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/kangaroo.html
Zundal
More Rivero.
| Quote: |
Forgeries, Denials and the Facts in-between
author: S. Boyle e-mail: [email protected]
Confronting false charges made against Anne Frank's diary and the "infiltration" of Indymedia
The following letter and reply (by Michael Rivero) were copied verbatim from WRH:
LETTERS TO WHAT REALLY HAPPENED
Thu Jan 16 2003
I agree, I never gave much thought to the authenticity of Holocaust claims, but the echoing anti-Semitism chants, the Holocaust in Space(Jewish Astronaut) stuff, the whole we're such victims has caused me to start looking into it, as the only thing I have in life is my own mind, my own beliefs. Looking into the claims, the shear numbers involved require some sophisticated mathematics - it would take a genius among geniuses to work out the complexities of managing an atrocity on such a scale.
Just as a start. 6 million victims of the Holocaust gassed, cremated, disposed of. Starting in late 1938 and ending in early-mid 1945. Now I assume, for my own ease, a 1-1-1938 starting date and a 12-31-1945 ending date. Which we will call 2920 days (8 years - 365 days a year). Which means 2054.79 Jews gassed, cremated, and disposed of every day for 2920 days. An amazing number, which would cripple an armies battle capabilities when considering the time to capture, transport, execute, and dispose of so many people daily. The cost of poison gas, the cost of gas to cremate. Procuring such amounts needed. The tons of ashes produced. The time it takes to cremate a human body, and the heat required. Bones don't burn in cremation. Add grinding them up. Etc...
Also, odd that, within a 2 month period, Roosevelt dies, Mussolini is murdered, Hitler commits suicide, Himler commits suicide. Guess dead men don't talk.
Odd, also, that the Diary of Ann Frank was found to be written, in part, in ball point pen - not invented until 1950. Taken from display, locked in a vault in Israel, and hasn't been seen since.
I have to admit that this one took me by surprise. I had not heard about the original document being partly written in ball point pen. Please don't be offended, but I did a web search and to my surprise found a great deal of material on the scandal, such as the article at http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/controversies/AnneFrank/ballpoint1080.html.
The ball-point pen was invented in 1888 by John Loud, but he never manufactured his invention. The first commercially produced ball point pen was not available to civilians outside of Argentina until after WW2 (although the military allies used them). Certainly there is no way that the Frank family, hidden in an attic in Nazi-occupied country, could have obtained one.
http://216.239.57.100/search?q=cache:q0iEbZwDMe8C:www.whatreallyhappened.com/letters.html+frank+diary+site:whatreallyhappened.com&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Here's a sample from the article Michael Rivero refers to:
Quote:
"The results of tests performed at the BKA laboratories show that portions of the work [Anne Frank's diary], specially of the fourth volume, were written with a ballpoint pen." - Al Fredricks, New York Post, October 9, 1980
The important thing to keep in mind is the claim by Michael that "I did a web search and to my surprise found a great deal of material on the scandal." Since this was easy enough to replicate, I too searched the web for information on the "scandal" using the following terms: "Anne Frank", diary, and ballpoint.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22Anne+Frank%22+diary+ballpoint&btnG=Google+Search
Not surprisingly, a link to the Anne Frank House (Amsterdam) was among the results on the first page. Their account of the dairy's history went well beyond 1980 and detailed the legal drama that lay to rest the BKA claims of forgery:
Quote:
From Denial of the Authenticity of the Diary
by Teresien da Silva
..."On March 19, 1993, after many years, another case in Hamburg also came to an end. The authenticity of Anne Frank's diary was also in question here. It began in 1976 when, following performances of the play based on the diary, E. R?er distributed pamphlets titled 'Best-Seller - ein Schwindel' which claimed that the diary was a forgery. The Public Prosecutor decided to proceed against R?er. Otto Frank was a co-complainant in this case. In 1977 the district court fined R?er 1500-DM. During the appeal stage a fellow right-winger E. Geiss distributed pamphlets in the courtroom alleging that the diary was a complete forgery. Geiss was also brought before the court and received a six-month jail sentence. He also filed an appeal and the R?er and Geiss cases were combined. The German Criminal Court Laboratory, the Bundeskriminalamt (BKA) was asked to examine the kind of paper and the types of ink used in the manuscript of Anne Frank's diary. Results showed that the paper and the ink concerned had been in use during the war and for some years afterwards. Remarkably, the BKA concluded that "the later corrections made on the loose-leaf pages were written in part in black, green and blue ballpoint pen." Verifying the findings of the BKA proved to be impossible since there was no mention of the exact place, nature and extent of these ballpoint corrections. During the Stielau case, twenty years earlier, it had been established, also by handwriting experts, that the work had been written entirely by Anne Frank herself. The BKA report appeared to cast doubt on this ruling. In 1980 the German magazine Der Spiegel published a rather inaccurate article about the findings of the BKA report. The message of this article was: "this undermines the authenticity of the document even further," and it caused an enormous commotion both at home and abroad.
In August 1980 Otto Frank died. His daughter's manuscripts were left to the Dutch State, which deposited the documents with the Nederlands Instituut voor Oorlogsdocumentatie (Netherlands Institute for War Documentation, or NIOD). Otto Frank appointed as his heir the Anne Frank Fund in Basel, which therefore also inherited the copyright of the book. The NIOD decided to publish the complete diaries of Anne Frank in an annotated version, in part as an answer to the continuing attacks on the book's authenticity. The "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" (State Forensic Science Laboratory) in Rijswijk was asked to conduct an extensive examination of the manuscript with regard to her handwriting and other technical aspects. The BKA was invited by the "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" to indicate where on the loose-leaf pages they had found the ballpoint ink. The BKA was unable to point out a single alleged correction in ballpoint ink. The court in Hamburg had decided to wait for the results of the RIOD investigation. In 1986 the complete diaries of Anne Frank and the positive results of the laboratory research were published under the title De dagboeken van Anne Frank (The diaries of Anne Frank). The German translation of 1988 was used as evidence by the court in Hamburg. After all these years, the case was resumed in 1990. At his appeal, Geiss was now sentenced to a 6000-DM fine. R?er had died by then. Geiss's defense appealed in 1991 for a review of the conviction based on the fact that the statute of limitations on the offence had lapsed. On March 19, 1993 the verdict was indeed set aside because of the time lapse and the case came to a definitive end."
http://www.annefrank.nl/eng/articles/authenticiteit.cfm
If Michael Rivero did indeed do a search as claimed, then how did he fail to uncover this crucial information when it was so easy to find? Assuming that Michael's are honest, then the alternatives are; that he hastily conducts sloppy research, or; he finds facts to fit his theories (whereas the Scientific Method demands the opposite approach). This is not the first time Michael Rivero's research has been called into question (see the fake WTC photo evidence http://freedomforums.net/whatreallyhappened/viewtopic.php?t=51&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45).
Ethical conduct requires journalists to correct their mistakes in print -- just as I did last week in regards to a misstatement about Michael Rivero's purchase of a T-shirt (see http://twincities.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=9501&group=webcast). I suspect much will be learned about Michael's character by the way he chooses to respond (or ignore) this "new" information about the Anne Frank diary.
Here's hoping that Michael can admit to being human.
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RELATED: This morning Michael Rivero posted this link -- 1/20/03 Mossad Infiltrates Indymedia "Let us control your web site or we'll kill you!" The story in question was hidden by the volunteers of the San Francisco Indymedia group (to whom it was submitted), but is still viewable if the reader selects "View Hidden Stories". The following is the actual speculative piece as it appeared on the web site:
Quote:
Mossad Infiltrates Indymedia
by Spy-Swatter ?Wednesday January 15, 2003 at 09:12 AM
Noticed how Indymedia has recently looked for volunteers? No doubt Zionists associated with the Mossad have applied and now work at Indymedia.
Have you noticed how the Rally in Oakland at 1301 Clay @12 between 4 and 5:30 PM whose theme is to STOP US AID TO APARTHEID ISRAEL is somehow not mentioned on the front page with the other events happening in the Bay Area this week?
Have you noticed how some people nick-name themselves "Mossad" and "Uzi" and "Moshe"? And how they post racist Zionist (same thing) comments and articles often with impunity?
Did you know that the ADL is an information-gathering arm of the Mossad?
Have you noticed that the "editors" are very "timid" about coming out against US support of apartheid Israel?
But don't let it deter you from your pro-Palestinian activies. The cat is out of the bag! Israel will soon fall like a house of cards, as all its lies are fully revealed as they are beginning to be now.
Down with all racism! Down with Zionism!
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/01/1560955.php
I can't help but wonder why Michael Rivero chose to post this anonymous, unsubstantiated flame? Does he really believe in the validity of the charges? Is he suggesting that he has, or knows of, evidence to back this sick rumor? (frankly, I doubt it) So why would Michael Rivero stoop so low as to attack the anarchist/activist inspired media collaboration that has been one of the most reliable and vocal supporters for the Palestinians?
Finally, I have to ask you (the reader) -- is it really so difficult to fathom that a reasonable person wouldn't begin to question Michael's motivations after such clear-cut examples of poor judgment?
add a comment on this article
FOLLOW UP 21.Jan.2003 12:06
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
S. Boyle [email protected] link
It has become painfully clear that at least some of the WhatReallyHappened.com readers presume that everything reported on WRH is true because of their respect for Michael Rivero. To his discredit, Michael Rivero has done little to discourage the readers from this short-sighted mistake.
(from the 01/21/03 WRH Letters page)
READER: "I was watching abc nightline last night and the topic was How evil is Saddam? Not one mention of the huge protests around the world. I am fed up with the american media. Journalistic integrity is dead except for a few brave souls who dare face up to Corporate Media. People like Mike Rivero, Alex Jones and Jerrod Israel. who mainly report on the internet, are the only people americans can rely on getting the real news. The more I watch the tv news, the more I realize that Corporate media has compromised the News. The more I watch TV reporters, the more I realize that reporters like Sarah MacLendon and Helen Thomas are a dying breed..."
MICHAEL RIVERO: "Reporters seldom ask hard questions during Presidential press conferences. This is more true for reporters from the major media than the independents, but is still true for all and for a simple reason. They want to get invited back to the NEXT press conference, and asking an impertinent question can get a reporter or an entire publication kicked off that short list. The biggest prize of all is to be invited along on Air Force One. Nobody wants to risk losing that ticket. The President can count on support from the press pool riding the back of that plane."
Incidentally, this is how Michael Rivero chose to respond to his mistatements about the Anne Frank diary and his linking to a baseless rumnor about Indymedia -- recognized by many for its support of the Palestinian people including ZNet Middle East Watch, The Palestine Monitor, and MERIP (Middle East Research & Information Project):
(also from the 01/21/03 WRH Letters page)
MICHAEL RIVERO: "...(S. Boyle) is back at it again today, this time attempting to refute the story about the ball point pen used to write the final portion of the Diary of Ann Frank. It should be obvious by now that S. Boyle's sole purpose is to run around the internet trying to cast doubt on any articles critical of Israel or casting doubt upon the truthfulness of any claims made by the boys who proudly brag, 'By way of deception, thou shalt do war.'"
I stated that much would be learned about Michael Rivero's character by his response. So now I must ask you, the Indymedia audience, what do you honestly make of the WRH web site and the way it is being used?
-S. Boyle |
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/01/41671.shtml
| Quote: |
A note on sources:
Please use discretion when referencing obviously biased or factually questionable material. Vanity websites are generally not as credible as the New York Times, the Washington Post or the UK Guardian and are likely to be locked. A good rule of thumb is to ask yourself is the author readily identifiable and likely to be cited by the mainline world press or encountered in an alternate format (mass-published book, academic journal, newspaper article, radio or TV show).
Please avoid posting "information" from overtly racist websites. A good, but not exhaustive, guide is Franklin's Hate Directory (www.hatedirectory.com ).
Posting from Whatreallyhappened.com, Chronwatch.com or Debka.com is specifically not allowed. |
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x21970
Even the liberal democratic underground does not allow Whatreallyhappened.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/week_2005_02_27.html
Did Israel Attack America On Sept. 11?
The White House Stage Manages the ��Get Syria�� Move
German Free Speech Supporters Protest For Zundel
http://www.rense.com/general63/preotes.htm
Israeli Nuclear Terrorism
Four Mounties die in shootout
Blair's Bloody Hands
Zundel: His Freedom Is Our Freedom
http://argentina.indymedia.org/news/2005/03/269784.php
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/week_2005_02_27.html
March 03, 2005
Holocaust Survivor Memoir Exposed As Total Fraud
Holocaust Survivor Memoir
Exposed As Total Fraud
By Mark Weber
IHR.org
3-3-5
http://www.rense.com/general63/exx.htm
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:49 pm; edited 8 times in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Sooke wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
I love how the antiwar movment allows bigots along side themselves. Maybe cause they secretly agree with it. |
Now you're calling me a bigot and implying that I'm a holocaust denier and an Ernst Zundel supporter. WTF dude? Looks to me like your losing the arguement and are resorting to unfounded and ridiculous 'anti-semitism' comments... |
He does that kind of thing a lot. Hang around a while and you'll notice it often. He's compared Cindy Sheehan to militant militia groups hiding up in the hills in Idaho, and did that again just after reading a quote of her saying, "I'm with Dr King." If Cindy is with Dr King AND she is with miltia groups - what does it say about where this guy's head is at? |
But we know her opinion of Iraq and when she compares it US actions to those NO she very well could be saying that Occupation = War . In other words she is implying that US troops in New Orleans = aggression by the US government against Americans. That the danger is not from Al Qaida but from the US government and that Bush is using the army to take over.
She is the only one who calls for their withdrawal.
That is kind of what Militas think, they think the real threat is from the US government that is why they insist of being armed
She has such hatred for Bush that she is now using the New Orleans tragedy as a way to promote her anti US government agenda. Remember she is a fan of Lynn Stewart someone who also hates the US. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| That is kind of what Militas think, they think the real threat is from the US government that is why they insist of being armed |
See? That's what I'm talking about. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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But we know her opinion of Iraq and when she compares it US actions to those NO she very well could be saying that Occupation = War . In other words she is implying that US troops in New Orleans = aggression by the US government against Americans. That the danger is not from Al Qaida but from the US government and that Bush is using the army to take over.
She is the only one who calls for their withdrawal.
That is kind of what Militas think, they think the real threat is from the US government that is why they insist of being armed
She has such hatred for Bush that she is now using the New Orleans tragedy as a way to promote her anti US government agenda. Remember she is a fan of Lynn Stewart someone who also hates the US.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:11 am Post subject: |
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The quick answer to the question posed in this thread?
Bush is not good. He is bad for America - in fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything good at all that has happened to my country since he walked into the Oval Office. |
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Sooke
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
The quick answer to the question posed in this thread?
Bush is not good. He is bad for America - in fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything good at all that has happened to my country since he walked into the Oval Office. |
Yeah, even though the question is "How is Bush good?" the defenders can usually only muster "He's not the worst..." and then get off topic.
Anyway, I'll reply to JRGR tomorrow, as I had a busy day and daddy needs his medicine. Stay tuned. |
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