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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Imbroglio
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Behind the wheel of a large automobile
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 Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| They will flag your passeport..no doubt there. |
Nonsense. Can you site any specific sources? I knew at least five backpackers in Korea that had been in default for at least four to six years and would travel regularly to and from India, micronesia, Thailand, etc. at least three times a year. They never seemed to have a problem going back home whenever they needed to. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:20 am Post subject: |
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I think someone might be writing for fun. What sort of country gives a $120,000 student loan? Canada has a cap of 50K.
I am of two minds on the issue, I think. On one hand, your country invests in your education by loaning the university money for your tuition and support. And if you decide to major in Aztec Folklore, it is not the state's fault you don't have a job.
On the other hand, my student loan experiences have really embittered me about Canada. Some saner countries tie loan repayments to salary, but Canada wants payments, now, now, now, and the amounts are calculated based on your loan, not on ability to pay. Friends of mine in Newfoundland were hauled into court for not paying $600 a month--when they were making $500 a month! It is a tremendously arbitrary system and it wastes an enormous amount of paperwork.
I came to Korea because I couldn't buy groceries or a bus pass to look for work, because my last savings had been confiscated by the bank without notification. I argued with the bank that even hitmen know not to kill their clients or they won't be repaid, but they just demanded more. The banks "lost" documents and periodically maneuvered me into default by refusing to classify me as a student while I was writing my thesis. After my arrival, I continued to get hectoring calls at 3 AM from collection agencies.
Ultimately, I played hard with the agency and refused to pay anything until they stopped being rude to me. To their credit, both the bank and the agency gave me a chance. I've almost paid it down to nothing now.
To return to the original question, yes, some governments reduce loans slightly if the degree is completed. I got 5% forgiven. When my brothers were in university in the 70s, the percentage was closer to half. The Chretien legacy; balance the books by slashing transfers to the provinces, who then cut university funding. Then blame the provinces and boast that your government is fiscally responsible.
Ken:> |
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Homer
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Can you site any specific sources? |
Canadian immigration will do this if a request is made by a bank in the case of a default on a loan.
Also, the Bank will communicate the credit history of the defaulter to other financial institutions, to revenue Canada and to credit rating agencies (equifax).
This means that the defaulter, once he surfaces again will be found and if the loan was large enough, will be charged.
Need more? |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
| On the other hand, my student loan experiences have really embittered me about Canada. Some saner countries tie loan repayments to salary, but Canada wants payments, now, now, now, and the amounts are calculated based on your loan, not on ability to pay. Friends of mine in Newfoundland were hauled into court for not paying $600 a month--when they were making $500 a month! It is a tremendously arbitrary system and it wastes an enormous amount of paperwork. |
Erm... this sounds like pretty normal bank procedure. You expect to borrow money and then just pay it back or not pay it back depending on how comfortably you end up living? You borrow other people's money, you pay it back -- even if that means working in a job you don't like, or sacrificing part of your hipster fashions budget for a few years.
How is it arbitrary and paper-wasting? You're talking about some kind of communist "from each according to his ability" bureaucratic process, which would waste a lot more time and paper than normal loan repayment.
| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
| Then blame the provinces and boast that your government is fiscally responsible. |
Fiscal responsibility is what? Giving some ungrateful punk a hundred grand or so, and never bothering to collect the loan because that would be "uncool"? |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Can you site any specific sources? |
Canadian immigration will do this if a request is made by a bank in the case of a default on a loan. |
JeJuJitsu mentioned Stafford and Perkins loans, so I'm pretty sure he was talking about American dollars $120,000  ... though I don't doubt that US lenders have at least as much power or more. The question really is, did he at least formally declare bankruptcy and tell them to their faces that he was screwing them? Or did he just run away and never look back? He's probably in for some kind of punishment or sanction if its the second case, and certainly will never be trusted again by any business in either case.
My father has an employee who declared bankruptcy years ago. Dad got company credit cards for several managers, but the card company wouldn't issue one to this person. Even though the cards were all copies with the same company account number, they simply wouldn't authorize person X to carry a copy of it and sign for purchases. Didn't want him anywhere near their card logo I guess. |
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Imbroglio
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Behind the wheel of a large automobile
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Naturally he's American, and that's why I pegged homer with that sources thing. The American government has not ever and will not ever flag your passport and throw you in jail because you go into default on your Stafford or Perkins loan. End of story. Homer, no. NO. NO. NO.  |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Joe,
If his story is true...his credit is shot in the US as is his financial reputation when it comes to house loans, car loans, credit, business loans and basic banking. You can also throw in insurance companies who will high rate this guy forever. |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Imbroglio wrote: |
| Naturally he's American, and that's why I pegged homer with that sources thing. The American government has not ever and will not ever flag your passport and throw you in jail because you go into default on your Stafford or Perkins loan. End of story. Homer, no. NO. NO. NO. |
Really? I find it hard to believe that socialist Canada has better protections for banks than the realatively pro-business United States. Maybe the guys you met in Thailand officially declared bankruptcy instead of just skipping the country. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:42 am Post subject: |
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You practically can't get rid of student loans through bankruptcy anymore (that's been the case since 1998) Up till then lawyers and doctors were the biggest exploiters of bankruptcy laws allowing them to discharge very large student loan debts incurred from the time they were college freshmen till they graduated from their respective law and med schools. (Of course, they're very honorable people, though...  ) |
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Homer
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Imbroglio,
Lets see what happens to the guy who defaulted on a 120 000USD loan... 
If nothing happens, that is a very sad state of affairs in the US (or his home state). |
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Imbroglio
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Behind the wheel of a large automobile
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:52 am Post subject: |
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One more thing Homer,
Karatekid(jejistsubadcreditguy) can go home tommorrow, pick up the phone and call his loan agency, arrange payment of as little as 400-500 dollars, and be taken out of default, six months later he can buy a house.
I heard this just now out in the parking lot in the smoking area. (I work for a major financial mortgage company, although I am in enterprise technology, not finance and I'm not claiming to be any kind of financial expert, but the people I work with tell stories in the parking lot)
God bless America! |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Imbroglio,
That is fantastic. Good for all defaulters then...ah yes the world is heading in the right direction.... |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| That is fantastic. Good for all defaulters then...ah yes the world is heading in the right direction.... |
Uh, it's not very good news for investors. Yes we are all glad it's easy to borrow money without slowing down for responsibility while we're young, but when we're old we're going to wish that our retirement savings were worth something... rather than having been granted to teenagers who don't think they deserve to to be expected to pay it back! |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Erm... this sounds like pretty normal bank procedure. You expect to borrow money and then just pay it back or not pay it back depending on how comfortably you end up living? You borrow other people's money, you pay it back -- even if that means working in a job you don't like, or sacrificing part of your hipster fashions budget for a few years.
How is it arbitrary and paper-wasting? You're talking about some kind of communist "from each according to his ability" bureaucratic process, which would waste a lot more time and paper than normal loan repayment. |
You have misunderstood my post. Or else I have not been clear in my writing. I have not once suggested that people should not be obligated to pay back student loans, which are a loan from my government financing one's education-- only that the system for recovering loans is massively inefficient and cruel. The calculation for loan repayment should take into consideration a graduate's income, and it does not at all. Interest relief is not automatic and terms are limited.
Some saner countries simply deduct a percentage from paycheques until the loan is repaid, and this avoids two problems. One, people who are in a bad way aren't branded bad risks for life, and two, the bureaucracy of chasing people down is simplified. The present system benefits no one except perhaps (surprise, surprise) the banks. I have nearly repaid my loans, but the government spent quite a bit of money hounding me and making my life difficult-- money they would have saved if the system waited until I had a job. Normal bank procedure benefits the bank.
I will not bore readers with a sob story, and part of my situation was my fault, but in '02 I couldn't buy a job in Alberta (right after I left, the boom started, of course  ). I applied at gas stations, restaurants, donut shops, supermarkets, bars, offices, businesses, colleges, you name it. When I took my MA off my resume to avoid being overqualified, employers just asked me what I had been doing for five years. There are people who simply don't have an income who are branded criminals.
| Quote: |
Then blame the provinces and boast that your government is fiscally responsible.
Fiscal responsibility is what? Giving some ungrateful punk a hundred grand or so, and never bothering to collect the loan because that would be "uncool"? |
I don't understand the objection.  My criticism was against the Liberal government's boast that they balanced the budget, which was done by cutting transfer payments, not expenses. I never defended the ungrateful punk.
Ken:> |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
| You have misunderstood my post. Or else I have not been clear in my writing. I have not once suggested that people should not be obligated to pay back student loans, which are a loan from my government financing one's education-- only that the system for recovering loans is massively inefficient and cruel. The calculation for loan repayment should take into consideration a graduate's income, and it does not at all. |
What other loan will you ever get in your life that considers your income when calculating how much you should pay back? I agree the way you describe it would be pretty sweet, but it's unrealistic. What you call "saner" countries -- countries that give the gift of education to their young people without asking for the money to be repaid -- are paying for it in other ways, namely high taxes (and as in the case of France, riots and civil unrest!).
In Canada do you borrow directly from your government? Or is it like the US system where you borrow from a bank and the government guarantees it? |
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