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Woland
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| Yes, but saying 'it's a lexical process so it's not strictly rule governed' just feels too much like a cop-out to me. I believe we can find hard rules if we think hard enough; and it's more efficient to learn rules than memorize reams of vocabulary. I like your idea of getting students to look for patterns themselves, but how can I give them feedback on what they find if I don't have any definitive answers? |
The pattern is, some take 'go', some take 'do', some take 'play', and some have a stand alone verb. You just have to learn which is which, and as with all lexical items, you just have to memorize. There may be particular subpatterns that stand out, but you won't be able to come up with a set of rules that easily account for everything. Knowing and using vocabulary is about memory, in any case, and not about applying rules. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, but the rules help with memory, even if they are not always 100% accurate. The mistake is expecting rules to explain every case.
How about this?
If I say "play skiing", it implies that I am not really skiing. I am only playing. |
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poet13
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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"SuperHero wrote:
play sports require more than one person
go sports can be done alone (though often aren't)
I have yet to find an exception to these rules"
How about play golf? |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| poet13 wrote: |
"SuperHero wrote:
play sports require more than one person
go sports can be done alone (though often aren't)
I have yet to find an exception to these rules"
How about play golf? |
I've never heard anyone say play golf it's always go golfing. |
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Skaborough
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
I understand that the big yo-yo fad is long over. But, as I said, you can play with anything. The question is how do you describe doing an activity without the word "with". Expressions using with describe the thing we are using but not the activity we are doing.
We do tricks. When the yo-yo was created the big deal was to do tricks, hence "do yo-yo tricks", and "do a yo-yo". It's just like magic. Do magic tricks, do magic. |
So then this is a confusion like the photocopying vs. Xeroxing; action being confused with brandname? Yo-yo is indeed a brandname, no?
What then about actions like juggling? Though it is named after the act (in that it is keeping many things in the air) there are juggling tricks.
I think you may have been caught up with the act & product name being one and same... that is that act was created by the product. Once the product entered into the popular language its name became the act.
Maybe I'm way off, but one does play with a Yo-yo, because a Yo-yo is a thing. As such one does Yo-yo trick's. How one yo-yo's I can't riddle.
Payce |
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poet13
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Do you play golf?
I go golfing?
I would go with the first one if I was trying to find out if a person ....uh....did that.
Do they say golf payers, or golfers? Some of both I think...
I would go with the second if the question was, "What do you do on saturdays?" |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| poet13 wrote: |
Do you play golf?
I go golfing?
I would go with the first one if I was trying to find out if a person ....uh....did that.
Do they say golf payers, or golfers? Some of both I think...
I would go with the second if the question was, "What do you do on saturdays?" |
But one does say "Let's play Golf!" |
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JeJuJitsu
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Location: McDonald's
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| SuperHero wrote: |
I've never heard anyone say play golf it's always go golfing. |
No, it's not. "I'm gonna go play some golf" or "I'm going to play golf" is utterly common usage, in America at least. |
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JeJuJitsu
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Location: McDonald's
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| Juregen wrote: |
| poet13 wrote: |
Do you play golf?
I go golfing?
I would go with the first one if I was trying to find out if a person ....uh....did that.
Do they say golf payers, or golfers? Some of both I think...
I would go with the second if the question was, "What do you do on saturdays?" |
But one does say "Let's play Golf!" |
Sure. I'd say it's about 60% usage of "let's go golfing" to 40% for "let's play golf." |
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