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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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casey's moon
Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Location: Daejeon
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
I think, GENERALLY SPEAKING, more Western women ARE prepared (feel compelled) to make those sorts of "compromises". (Mind you, fashion is facism anywhere.) Maybe they're tired of being the only one in a lumberjack shirt, dungarees and army boots for the school mountain-climbing trip where all the K-girls show up in mini-skirts & high heels. I'm exaggerating, of course, to make the point that I've seen many a young Western woman in Korea go in the "girl-ifying", "chick-ifying" direction fashion-wise, and how many of you girls can honestly say there's nothing in your
"Korea wardrobe" that would draw a few chuckles from friends & family back home? |
I can only speak for myself -- but NOPE. I haven't gone all girly at all. My friends and family would likely chuckle to see that I'm still wearing some of the clothes I had in high school -- although I make a concerted effort to update my wardrobe whenever I visit home. I wear make up less often (my husband doesn't much care for it anyway, and I've always hated the removal process so everybody wins). My husband loves my shoes (from Canada) because they are so different (i.e. chunky and low-heeled) from anything available here.
I hate shopping though, and always have. I guess it is a different story for the avid shopper expat woman in Korea. |
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RachaelRoo

Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
Yeah, maybe, but I haven't had the pleasure of meeting many cool ones yet myself. Thinking it may be time to move outta Ulsan.... |
How about dating Korean men?[/quote]
I just don't know any who speak English - including the 2 male teachers at my school. Also, not sure how the cultural differenc would work out - it's my understanding that it's a bigger problem when it's western girl/k-guy then when it's the other way around....
and my apologies for the off topic post. |
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krats1976

Joined: 14 May 2003
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| casey's moon wrote: |
| coffeeman wrote: |
| peppermint wrote: |
| Infinitely more cynical- I've seen far too much of the ugly side of human nature. |
Like like selfishness and a complete disregard for other people. |
What????
What part of Korea do you living in? Unless it's the wealthiest part of Gangnam and you've never been outside of Seoul, I can't imagine how you would feel this way about Korean people.
I have my complaints about this country and even its people (lack of planning, lack of foresight, very low safety standards, etc.) but selfishness and a completely disregard for other people are traits I've mostly noticed in some of the freakier expats I've met here. |
I agree with casey's moon, but I can see where coffeeman is coming from. If your only interaction with Koreans is walking or driving around, they can seem extremely rude (pushing ahead in line, for example).
However, when you get to know Koreans on a personal level and become something other than a random spot in a sea of unknown faces, you find that they are (for the most part... of course there are exceptions) kind and generous. Most will go out of their way to help you if they can.
In response to the OP, I have changed a lot in Korea in the following areas:
I've found myself becoming more feminine (though no high heels yet)
I'm much more confident
I have gained a greater appreciation for my culture--esp. with regards to women--but I also find myself more easily annoyed by the ethnocentrism I see in America.
I'm learning to be patient and (a teensy bit) more reticent.
I'm more positive in general and less inclined to put people down in the name of humor.
I'm less argumentitive
I don't know how much of that is from living in Korea and how much is just part of getting older, though.
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
No disrespect to the individual posters who've helped to turn this thread into another Dave's Male vs. Female Grudge Match (good work, kids! ) but if I might return to the OP, I'd like to kick apart, roll my eyes at, and smirk at her comments for a moment.
| holeinthesky wrote: |
I was thinking about how Korea has changed me.
My liberal perspectives on life, living, social norms, political values, attitudes to the family, relationships and cultural eccentricities have become even more liberal, perhaps as a reaction to the often stifling conservatism (could go on for hours about this)... |
I can understand this reaction, and I would guess that Korea might be one of relatively few countries/societies outside your own that you've gotten to know fairly well. Yes? At the risk of sounding like a snarky old Korea-defender (which I'm certainly not) WOW, holeinthesky, if Korea -- and Korea today -- strikes you as hidebound, illiberal, close-minded, etc., one positively shudders to think how you'd get on (or not) in about a bajillion other countries. Or even Korea just 10 years ago. Korea's no Canada or US, but a few years in other parts of the non-Western world would, I think, have just about anyone appreciating how much like "home" Korea is. Or rather, "is anymore". |
Actually, this truth could be an important part of the lesson. If Korea is one of the more "Western" countries out there (which it is), and the *real* West is at the top of the social freedom mountain (as flawed as it may be), then God help the Western cafe dreadlock haystack who thinks that his/her own country is a cesspit of conservatism unmatched by any other country.
It's like those Generation Y "radicals" who tell the older generation "Du-ude, you had it so easy in the Sixties, dude. Like, you didn't have to put up with the fascist laws we have today, duuuude."
(Keep in mind that kids were already saying this sort of thing in the late 90's - before the "War on Terror".) |
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JongnoGuru

Joined: 25 May 2004 Location: peeing on your doorstep
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Barking Mad Lord Snapcase wrote: |
| If Korea is one of the more "Western" countries out there (which it is), and the *real* West is at the top of the social freedom mountain (as flawed as it may be), then God help the Western cafe dreadlock haystack who thinks that his/her own country is a cesspit of conservatism unmatched by any other country. |
Indeed, indeed. I've always felt a few years in the Republic would be educational for the lefty rank-and-file of the West. Sure, some will become crankier than ever, but I think most will probably emerge more grounded and appreciative of what they've got.
(and is it haystack or hayseed?) |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005 Location: $eoul
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Some of these are because of Korea and some are just coincidence:
* Gained weight. More to do with eating too much than drinking.
* Infinitely more conservative, including support for Far Right policies on numerous issues such as immigration, nationality, religion and even individual freedom.
* dramatic increase in homicidal fantasies, with these kinds of people my victims.
* more self-conscious and vain. I feel more handsome than ever, yet am excessively worried about premature aging and weight gain.
* constant loss of temper with people guilty of noise pollution, especially drivers and their horns.
* Increased desire for Korean/Asian women. Never had "yellow fever" at all back home and didn't think I would here. No longer believe I��ll probably marry someone of my own race.
* Increased desire to have children (daughter strongly preferable).
* More patriotic and, dare I say it, racist. I've heard some rather laughable views about race/blood and also white males here. Koreans are very into national pride, but my country��s culture and language has pervaded all four corners of the Earth and whilst Koreans�� excessive feelings of greatness are all well and good, come back and have a chat to me about how great your country is when it has had one-tenth of the influence mine has. You don��t see people from England or America wearing yellow make-up and having eyelid surgery to make their eyes more oriental, do you? If you can get a job paying $2200 a month + free accommodation to teach Korean to native English-speakers with just a poxy degree, I��ll be more than happy to discuss the excellent phenomenon of pure Korean blood. The crazy thing is, I don't consider this racist or jingoistic. I consider it realism. I've gone completely mad!
* Significantly biased towards girls and women. The way I treat female co-workers is drastically different to guys. With males, I��ll do the absolute bare minimum socially-acceptable. With women I��ll talk enthusiastically, go out of my way.
* Decrease in desire to be chemically-altered. The lack of drugs opportunities here has done me the world of good. I drink a lot less than I used to. Being straightheaded, getting a good night's sleep, enjoying my job....these are the things that float my boat these days.
* more positive view of self and future - finances, job prospects.
* Insanely impatient. Being stuck on the sidewalk behind a bunch of Koreans walking very, very slowly drives me nuts. Save for the elderly and disabled, we should have a national minimum walking speed. |
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JongnoGuru

Joined: 25 May 2004 Location: peeing on your doorstep
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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You might not agree with the man, you might even find him unbearable at times. But I'd like to see anyone else try and follow SPIN's brutal, lay-it-on-the-line honesty. Okay, let me try.
Korea has changed me in that...
I wake up in the morning, stare at myself in the mirror and say "Ahh! There you are, you sly good-looking well-paid heartbreaker, you! "
Oh, there were mornings like that before Korea, to be sure. But nothing like this consistent. I figured it would get old after 10 years, but it hasn't! |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| Many women of all races and nations compromise themselves "to get a man" Just as many men do. |
TUM, TUM, TUM...
Are you saying that gay men compromise themselves to get a man? Is that what you are saying? I'm going to have to ask for citations for that claim. On this topic, is that what you were suggesting Peter Jackson do in this comment from the Sauna Misadventure thread?
| Quote: |
But the big question is why didn't you take him up on his offer?
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PS to holeinthesky: Yes, I did think you are a female. I was just being silly on a Sunday morning. |
I meant women are not the only gender when it comes to compromise Some men do as well in order to get a woman. Come on now, especially when starting a relationship we all want to put our best foot forwards and sometimes go overboard.
As for the Sanua thread I was joking, note the smilie. |
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Homer Guest
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Infinitely more cynical- I've seen far too much of the ugly side of human nature.
Well this sad side of human behaviour does not require travel to be seen I think.... |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:42 am Post subject: |
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Well... I hate rice now. It comes with virtually every meal set in this country. I'm just tired of it now. When I go back to my country, I am going to scream at anyone that gives me rice.  |
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peppermint

Joined: 13 May 2003 Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Infinitely more cynical- I've seen far too much of the ugly side of human nature.
Well this sad side of human behaviour does not require travel to be seen I think.... |
Of course not and most of the people that showed me that ugliness weren't Korean, just conincidence that I happened to see it there, I suppose. |
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Satori

Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Location: Above it all
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
So all Korean girls compromise themselves to "get a man"? |
She didn't suggest that at all... |
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Satori

Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Location: Above it all
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
The crazy thing is, I don't consider this racist or jingoistic. I consider it realism. I've gone completely mad!
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That has been abundantly clear for quite some time... |
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Cedar
Joined: 11 Mar 2003 Location: In front of my computer, again.
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: |
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I have written on similiar threads SOOOOOOOOO many times... but I love these.
Anyway, a couple things...
I don't notice when people stare at me (most of the time) and when I do, it doesn't make me self-conscious.
I'm conversant in the Internet and communication through it!
I grew out of "cell-phones are evil" and have had one (same number for 8 years!) more or less surgically implanted into my hand. I have not forgotten it at home in at least a year and a few months.
I started wearing make-up (other than occassional lip color). Recently I even started mildly plucking my eyebrows (more or less just cleaning them up, not forming them).
I started wearing high heels (other than cowboy boots).
I learned Korean and Chinese.
I realized I hate teaching ESL and don't ever want to do it again (well, a private or two is okay...).
I learned SO much about Korea, a place I barely knew a thing about in mid 1996.
I lost my fear of big cities...
Okay, I have translating to do...that's enough for now! |
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Lemonade

Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:31 am Post subject: |
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1.) I generalize more (about Koreans). I use to not do that about people. I REALLY and truely appreciate OTHER races of people besides Koreans (i.e. Japanese, Taiwanese, Middle Eastern, Indian, Hispanic, Black, etc.) that seem far FAR more kind hearted, polite and generous than your average everyday run-of-the-mill Koreans. Recently, I've had friends, relatives and peers come to town. We talked, walked, shopped and ate in Korea. They noticed the general Korean RUDENESS that I've come to EXPECT from Koreans. They gave me a lot of credit for living here and that sure made me feel GREAT!
2.) I've become less caring towards strangers - less concerned about them and far less interested in striking up conversations (especially with Koreans). My sense of empathy, simpathy and curiosity are not what they use to be for strangers and those with whom I'm newly aquainted.
3.) I've become more proud of my own country, faults and all. I appreciate the sacrifices and hard work of "our troops" more than EVER. This country wouldn't exist, at least not as is does now, without the sacrifices that MY country and a fellow Americans made. My countrymen faught and DIED for this country and their freedom. These younger Koreans should remember that EVERY time they have a racist thought towards westerners. They have the odacity to refuse us in various places here in Korea because we aren't Korean. They have the odacity to spit in the face of my friend because they THOUGHT she was American. Sometimes I hear fallen soldiers rolling in their graves.
4.) I've learned to respect elders more, especially older Koreans who remember the Korean War (1950-53). |
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