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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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guangho
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency
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 Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Steps for teacher retention/improved reputation of Korean EFL:
1. Expand hiring criteria beyond white/blonde/blue eyed. Being white, blonde and blue eyed does not qualify one to teach.
2. Honor contracts. Come down like a ton of bricks on those, teachers or schools, who do not.
3. Make visas flexible a la Japan.
4. Reduce the visa process to:
a. get the name, address, phone number of the Uni.
b. call the Uni to confirm that the degree is legit.
5. Background checks wouldn't hurt either.
6. Encourage Korean society as a whole to view people, including foreigners as individual human beings worthy of consideration and respect. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
...conditions did improve over the past few years here....
Salaries went up (1.1 per month was the avg back in 1997-1998).
Saturday classes are on the way out (back then the 6-day workweek was standard!).
Hours are also shorter.
Single housing is replacing shared housing. |
and many jobs are now advertising settlement allowances.
not to mention paid visa runs.
and I have seen several ads for six-month positions, had contacted two of them, and they wanted one year contracts but were willing to offer six month positions to get someone quickly.
times are the best they've ever been in terms of working benefits and conditions here.
by hunting around, and looking for the best offers for me, I've now got a 16 hour a week job teaching kids at a hagwon (and 4 more hours for adults), my own curriculum!, 3-8 with a 40-minute dinner break at 6, Monday to Thursday (three-day weekends), my own two-bedroom new apt in a triplex with a killer view, for 2.2 mill. I'd never have dreamed of getting that a couple of years ago. and choosing THIS job offer was a HARD decision because there were other attractive competing positions.
the demand for teachers must be at an alltime high here
(though I suspect it may have just peaked last month, at the end of the public school hiring process which these days is more vigorously geared toward getting waygooks into public schools) |
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Lemonade
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Francis-Pax wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
What they should do is adopt the same system as Japan, where the teacher controls the visa....not the school.
But try and get Koreans to admit that Japan knows something better than they do...
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At the conference I observed that everybody knows the problems but nobody offered a plan to initiate change. So the question arises, what can we practically do? |
I'm not so sure it's OUR responsibilty to practically do anything. If we don't like it we can leave and many of us do. Turnover is high. Foreigners are not treated well in Korea. Everyone knows that.... Koreans say that all the time. In contrast, western foreigners are treated with respect and dignity as a rule in Japan and many other parts of the ESL world, including Taiwan. Korea has a long history of asking the whole world for help and when they get the help they tend to show resentment. Korea is asking for help from foreigners (us teachers) and look how they show their appreciation.... there's certainly no shortage of horror stories out there. All I know is that the people who've taught in other countries say how much they loved those countries. You don't hear that very often in Korea from other ESL teachers. Or if you do hear people say how much they like Korea it's usually for all the wrong reasons... drinking, exploiting women, money (can't find work at home) etc. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, thats not true. Maybe you havent been treated well. But there are a number of people on this board, including myself, who have been treated VERY well. |
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Francis-Pax
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Lemonade wrote: |
| Francis-Pax wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
What they should do is adopt the same system as Japan, where the teacher controls the visa....not the school.
But try and get Koreans to admit that Japan knows something better than they do...
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At the conference I observed that everybody knows the problems but nobody offered a plan to initiate change. So the question arises, what can we practically do? |
I'm not so sure it's OUR responsibilty to practically do anything. If we don't like it we can leave and many of us do. Turnover is high. Foreigners are not treated well in Korea. Everyone knows that.... Koreans say that all the time. In contrast, western foreigners are treated with respect and dignity as a rule in Japan and many other parts of the ESL world, including Taiwan. Korea has a long history of asking the whole world for help and when they get the help they tend to show resentment. Korea is asking for help from foreigners (us teachers) and look how they show their appreciation.... there's certainly no shortage of horror stories out there. All I know is that the people who've taught in other countries say how much they loved those countries. You don't hear that very often in Korea from other ESL teachers. Or if you do hear people say how much they like Korea it's usually for all the wrong reasons... drinking, exploiting women, money (can't find work at home) etc. |
I understand what you are saying and it makes sense; however, you need to understand one point: some people can't just pick up and leave.
Some teachers are married to Koreans and they don't have the financials resources to move out of the country. Some have chosen or have, by personal circumstances, made Korea their home -- a place where they will live for sometime.
People who are premeant residents of Korea, at the very least, should be able to inistiate some change in the area of Korean law that effect them and, it seems to me, they should have some rights under the law.
In any case, my main point is that some people cannot just leave. They are here and they are here to stay. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| All I know is that the people who've taught in other countries say how much they loved those countries. You don't hear that very often in Korea from other ESL teachers. Or if you do hear people say how much they like Korea it's usually for all the wrong reasons... drinking, exploiting women, money (can't find work at home) etc. |
I've loved teaching in Korea - problems and all. I think you are full of hyperbole and have got lost in the drift of "problemitis". This is the case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease but still there are a lot of happy , unsqueaking wheels out there....
DD |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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I know there are many out there who were/are treated well, that is nice.
This is a question of how to fix the problems of those who weren't treated so well. How to make it so more people would be saying what you say.
The answer is simple, perhaps too simple for a complex situation.
Adopt the Japanese style visa system.
But I know this will never happen. I'm sure there is some political rationalle for maintaining the status quo, something like "it protects Korean jobs" or something and I doublt very much that anything will change, no matter how much we complain. |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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I've been here for at least 50 years, and I don't think there is anything "great" and "wonderful" about Korea. It's a good place to make (and more importantly, save) money, if you're smart. That's pretty much it.
Korea may be the most mediocre country in the world. They don't have the best or worst of anything, with the exception of kimchi. On the other hand, pound for pound, you can save more money here (with an entry level job) than in most other ESL environments, and that's certainly not mediocre. |
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Lemonade
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Well, thats not true. Maybe you havent been treated well. But there are a number of people on this board, including myself, who have been treated VERY well. |
jinju, then I encourage you to start your own thread with a poll asking how well they've been treated. I've had a chance to speak with a large number of ESL teachers from all over this country and only one of them had very nice things to say about teaching ESL here in Korea. Most of them were looking forward to leaving Korea. I think some people have a honeymoon period of time here in Korea and for some people that time is longer than others. |
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Khyron
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Main reason teachers aren't coming to Korea:
Many directors are complete cㅓnts, and everyone knows it. Thank you 'the internet'! Also, having only 10 days holiday (in a hagwon) is a complete joke. Who wants to work for that? I get around 11 WEEKS in Japan, although I'd a full-time teacher in a school. Still, I'm pretty sure that the language academies here give their teachers more than 10 days for holiday.
I loved Korea, but I don't be back because of the idiots in charge there. The hassle of having those fools in charge owning the visas doesn't help either.
For the record, my final boss in Korea was alright. But the damage had been done. I'll probably have a difficult time trusting a Korean in charge for the rest of my life now. That's unfortunate. From what I hear, Koreans have this reputation all over the world. It's their own damn fault too. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Lemonade wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| Well, thats not true. Maybe you havent been treated well. But there are a number of people on this board, including myself, who have been treated VERY well. |
jinju, then I encourage you to start your own thread with a poll asking how well they've been treated. I've had a chance to speak with a large number of ESL teachers from all over this country and only one of them had very nice things to say about teaching ESL here in Korea. Most of them were looking forward to leaving Korea. I think some people have a honeymoon period of time here in Korea and for some people that time is longer than others. |
I've been treated very poorly at one workplace and very well at another. I've been treated very poorly by some Koreans I've met and very well by others. Most people I know who have spent more than a year in Korea feel likewise. Somewhere between your useless, predictable complaints and Homer's useless, predictable apologetics the truth is out there, and Korea works well for those who are tolerant of most things, don't put up with BS, and have the spine to say 'no', the initiative to make changes, the gratitude to reciprocate help and kindness, and the ability to see things that are ridiculous but harmless with a sense of humour. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
I've been here for at least 50 years, and I don't think there is anything "great" and "wonderful" about Korea. It's a good place to make (and more importantly, save) money, if you're smart. That's pretty much it.
Korea may be the most mediocre country in the world. They don't have the best or worst of anything, with the exception of kimchi. On the other hand, pound for pound, you can save more money here (with an entry level job) than in most other ESL environments, and that's certainly not mediocre. |
So you're just in it for the money? That's fine if you are. But then don't complain about Hakwon directors just being in it for the money. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Lemonade wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| Well, thats not true. Maybe you havent been treated well. But there are a number of people on this board, including myself, who have been treated VERY well. |
jinju, then I encourage you to start your own thread with a poll asking how well they've been treated. I've had a chance to speak with a large number of ESL teachers from all over this country and only one of them had very nice things to say about teaching ESL here in Korea. Most of them were looking forward to leaving Korea. I think some people have a honeymoon period of time here in Korea and for some people that time is longer than others. |
You know, perhaps your skin isnt thick enough. What gets me about people like you is how you complain over and over and over again until thats all you do. Korea isnt paradise, but if I was to count all the great things that happened to me and all the bad things, the good would outweigh the bad.
-Some people, like you, just cant get past the bad things.
-Some people (not sayng its you) are just arogant little twits who want to be treated like gods and when that doesnt happen, they yelp like dogs.
-Some people are rude and are treated rudely.
-Some people have never lived anywhere but their own country/state/county/town/patents' home and suddenly they realize that the world isnt as cozy as their parents' livingroom.
- Some people have legit reasons for disliking Korea.
All Im saying is that just because someone isnt happy here, perhaps its not all Korea's fault.
Which group are YOU in? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| [Korea works well for those who are tolerant of most things, don't put up with BS, and have the spine to say 'no', the initiative to make changes, the gratitude to reciprocate help and kindness, and the ability to see things that are ridiculous but harmless with a sense of humour. |
While I almost never see eye to eye with Mr Yu_Bum_suk on the vast majority of things (and probably never will), the man is on target with this part of his post at least. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| crazylemongirl wrote: |
I don't think Koreans actually want us to stay. I had a friend up and leave Korea over a matter of 300k. The school tried to renege on paying her visa run, so she left to go to Taiwan. She was a good teacher and very popular with her students. However when re-signing time came the school said 'oh we're not going to give you any raise, and are taking the money from the visa run.' So the ended up having to not only pay for her airfare out of here, plus the new teachers' airfare into Korea but then had to pay recuirter to find them a teacher as they haven't been able to find one themselves.
That and the idiots running the education office who are insisting on that 2 week rule on vacations. I think a lot of teachers here for more than a year would forefit a bit of extra cash if we got more some decent vacation. For anyone who lives away from a major hub airport the prospect of flying across time zones, changing planes and then turning around a few days later just isn't worth the million or so they'll have to drop in order to go home to be jet lagged. |
That's a big part of it. Many people who take the profession seriously are also frustrated by the lack of standards, evaluation and chances for professional advancement here. If you're feeling brave, the Middle East is still where it's at for the overseas EFLer. Hong Kong also maintains high international standards. |
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