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desultude

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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ddeubel wrote: |
I like Americans until they remember they are American..........if that makes any sense.
DD |
Hmmm, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. When I "remember" I am American, it is when I realize that I am doing something that is stereotypically American (being to full of myself and loud) rather than how I want to be.
I saw Willy Nelson the other night on Jon Stewart's Daily Show, and I was reminded that Americans, even Americans from Texas, can be sweet, soft spoken and self-effacing, as well as very frank and honest. Willy Nelson, and Jon Stewart, are both Americans I am proud to identify with.
I lived for a year in the midwest (a very, very long year ) and I met some great, albeit misguided, people. Most mid-westerners I met were friendly and sincere, but attached to abstract political ideals that made me shiver. Take away the "rah rah" and the flags and bunting, and the racism, and you would have some pretty great people.
Not everyone lives up to the stereotypes, and almost no-one lives up to all of them. But, if you come across a large group of Americans, and especially service men, you will see a demonstration of the stereotypes. And, when speaking of nationalities, we are a group with a group identity, not discrete individuals with individual, local, and regional characteristics. |
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funkywinkerbeans
Joined: 17 Feb 2006 Location: seoul
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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There are many things that irritate me about the American Government and American foreign policy, but I generally find the people to be friendly and sincere.
One thing that drives me nuts is after the Super Bowl and all the players are declaring, "We are the World Champions!" All the teams play in the United States and some how they end out been the World Champions.
They should start teaching world geography in the schools, or teach them the defintion of "World." |
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Wangja

Joined: 17 May 2004 Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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In the immortal words of John Cleese explaining on a US chat show the differences between Americans and British ..... there are 3
1. we speak Englsih
2. when we hold a world series sporting event we invite other countries
3. when you meet our Head of State, you only have to go down on ONE knee .... |
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ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Take away the "rah rah" and the flags and bunting, and the racism, and you would have some pretty great people |
Desultude, that is basically what I meant by my statement.......more or less.....
DD |
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ChimpumCallao

Joined: 17 May 2005 Location: your mom
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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i like americans very much, and feel that they are generally the most polite group of people ive met. the men are chivalrous and no one bumps into you. if korea had even an iota of north american manners on the street and subway i'd be a much happier camper.
here is, from personal conversations, what people hate about the yanks. and yes, i think it tends to be white americans.
1) ignorant about the world.
easily refuted. everyone knows about america because it is THE prevalent topic in the media 24-7. so people all over the world know about american geography, history, and recent events even if they may not want to. they then feel a sense of indignation that the yanks don't respond in kind. its absolute horsesh*t.
other countries know a lot about ONE very prevalent country. How can one expect america to know everything about every country.
My analogy is this: It is like a movie fan complaining...."I know EVERYTHING about Tom Cruises...but he knows NOTHING about me! He is so ignorant."
I mean really, I heard all about the ignorant gringos in Peru, but you ask your average chollito the capital of Canada or if Uzbekistan is a real country or not and they would NOT have a clue.
2) Fat
BFD. The world is catching up, and Samoa has surpassed us.
3) Spreading and pushing their own culture on other countries.
a) people have a right to choose where they want to eat and what they listen to. To say that american things are ok for some and not others is both selfish and fascist. the world is not a museum and people have a right to choice.
b) free will exists. if you don't like it...don't partake in it.
4) Loud and boorish.
i never got this. perhaps when drunk or in certain situations. definitely express opinions more readily. but i find koreans much more of both. i actually think americans are very polite and friendly.
5) thinking their country is the best.
you know...in any way you can measure it...it kinda is. GDP, employment opportunities, where most foreigners want to immigrate to, business/economies, natural beauty, military power, world influence, movies, products, olympic medals, nobel peace prizes, inventions......
i am in no ways a nationalist and find all kinds obnoxious. yet, americans do NOT have the monopoly on this. having lived abroad showed me that countries that are more insecure in their world position, tend to be actually MORE nationalistic and more in your face about their accomplishments. I personally think people find americans arrogant because for all the yankee bashing that goes on in the world, americans don't give a f*ck. no outrage, no nothing. i guess being ignored is actually worse than being hated to some. america bashers are bent on getting reactions, and become angrier when everyone in the us is too busy going to work in their luxury sedan to give a damn.
the funniest part is that the people that do anti-americanism the best are....the americans. it's pretty funny when canadians and co. are getting their yankee critiques from The Daily Show.
SO here is a counter question...
do some of you hate americans because
1) they don't really care when they are critiqued (can you think of any other country that would just turn the other cheek at the world-wide dribble that goes on about them?)
2) they critique and make fun of themselves better than you ever could? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: |
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honestly, hardly anyone has given a rat's ass when I told them from I was from America. I've actually received more positive responses than negative ones. Favorite one from a Korean: "I love America because it brought Jesus to Korea!" Eh yeah, go USA. |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004 Location: Incheon
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Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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If Americans are hated it's mostly because of Bush. His voter base was the white evangelicals of the South and Midwest Bible Belt. He won 61% of the vote in Texas, for example. |
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Njord

Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 2:43 am Post subject: |
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funkywinkerbeans wrote: |
One thing that drives me nuts is after the Super Bowl and all the players are declaring, "We are the World Champions!" All the teams play in the United States and some how they end out been the World Champions.
They should start teaching world geography in the schools, or teach them the defintion of "World." |
Sounds reasonable to me, actually. The NFL is clearly the #1 league in the world for that sport. (The only other major ones are NFL Europe and the CFL, and Canadian football has significant rule differences.)
On the other hand, I could understand complaining about calling the MLB final the "World Series." The United States isn't even the top country in the world in baseball and they don't invite teams from other countries (except Canada) to participate.
I do, however, agree with you that students should learn more world geography. But perhaps it isn't as bad as you might think. I had world geography classes in 6th, 7th, and 9th grade. We had to memorize and locate on a map all of the countries in Latin America, the Middle East, Asia, and Europe. (For some reason we never did cover Africa or Oceania.) We also covered major world religions, basic human geography, climate zones, the Canadian provinces, and the Great Lakes ecosystem in some detail. In high school, I also took AP European History, AP Comparative Politics, and AP Human Geography. (The latter two were independent study, but I had the support of my teachers.)
The problem is not, I think, that US students don't have a chance to learn about world geography. There are some really great and passionate geography teachers and the amount of time devoted to these classes isn't that bad. One problem is that politicians, state officials, school boards, principals, parents, and students all think that math and science are the most important subjects to the exclusion of all else. The result is that nobody except the teachers takes world geography seriously.
Another problem is that world geography is a huge subject and it is hard to know where to start or what to leave out. It would be easy to teach students how to find countries on a map. If you were really serious about it, you could even put it on university entrance exams. But would this really help much? Sure Americans can't find Iraq on a map. But the more serious issue is that they have no concept for anything outside of their continent. How do you teach this?
This is so difficult because the US is really really far from all but a small handful of countries. (Much like Korea, in fact.) We are also fortunate to be born knowing the lingua franca. This is very nice, but it greatly reduces the incentives to learn other languages. Language is culture, so Americans learn less about other cultures as well. |
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ChimpumCallao

Joined: 17 May 2005 Location: your mom
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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hari seldon wrote: |
If Americans are hated it's mostly because of Bush. His voter base was the white evangelicals of the South and Midwest Bible Belt. He won 61% of the vote in Texas, for example. |
yeah...and everyone hates people from zimbabwe because of mugabe...
you know...i hate chavez...next time im in miami and run into a venezuelan im TOTALLY going to berate him!
i wish id been around during pol pots murderous regime so when i say a cambodian i could spit on him!
Nice logic.
Not.
americans are not hated for their regime, there are so many worse...it's the same reason everyone hates McDs and not BK. they're the most successful, rich, and prominent. who's gonna talk smack about the underdogs?? Even if their regimes and policies are 2372873208 times worse and damaging.
for the record i hate all governments pretty much equally and am all for an insular america (minus free trade, of course).
Last edited by ChimpumCallao on Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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hari seldon wrote: |
If Americans are hated it's mostly because of Bush. His voter base was the white evangelicals of the South and Midwest Bible Belt. He won 61% of the vote in Texas, for example. |
Anti-Americanism predates Bush by a very long time. |
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Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:42 am Post subject: ... |
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A bit about my history:
I'm from the Midwest, but went to school in New England.
I was routinely treated as a bumpkin by people who:
a) thought my state bordered on Arkansas.
b) thought my state was the same size as New Jersey
c) thought I was an idiot because I thought New Jersey was a part of New England.
I'll just say I think we all learned a lot over 4 years, but I learned more by not going to the closest state university where, literally, 98% of my high school class went.
One of my big theories of life: Everyone needs to get out of wherever they grew up. I personally think San Francisco is my favorite US city. However, you will be a bumpkin if you are born there and only remain in this uber-cool place.
You can always return, but everyone needs to get out.
Now, Soohwa, what you're doing is defending stereotypes that favor your background and promoting those that don't.
You want people to like the South but not like the North.
Southern people are polite, but New Yorkers are rude?
How about Southerners are racist and in-bred, but New Yorkers are progressive and worldly?
I support neither, but if you wanna go there...I'll be happy to get as ugly as you.
But no no no.
Let's just say stereotypes are bad.
You suggest that we hated the USSR, not the people, but I could readily buy "kill a commie for mommy" shirt where I lived... |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Nothing irks me about Americans.
It's just that some people are jerks, a global thing, hence some Americans are included. |
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