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Coup in Thailand
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:08 am Post subject:

oxfordstu wrote:

Let's just hope the new government won't kill the English Programs at the schools here - that's one thing Thaksin really did right.

how's your Thai girlfriend nowadays? haha Laughing

No offence Wink

* I hear Thaksins applied for a job as a cleaner in the White house now.

jaganath69

Joined: 17 Jul 2003

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:55 am Post subject: Re: Coup in Thailand

canuckistan wrote:

Not good news for Thailand:

Its great news for Thailand, as long as the military hand back power quickly enough. Thaksin was a corrupt populist who made the foreigner-bashing politicians here look like amatuers. His drug war killing hundreds of innocent bystanders or people merely suspected of involvement and heavy-handed approach in the south just compounded matters. Supposedly free QANGO bodies were run over roughshod and his hiding/disposal of family assets just show how much contempt this former bastard copper has for democratic process. Oh yeah, and lets not forget the blow he dealt to both retired expats and foreign investors alike with his recent promise to rescind the investors visa, once again in the name of tarnishing all foreigners with the same brush. Personally, I hope they lock him up and he rots in jail when he comes back from his junket in NY. Now tell me you still think its a bad thing?

Beej

Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:07 am Post subject:

ddeubel wrote:

Quote:

Is there anything in the world that Bush is not responsible for?

Never said Bush was responsible. I just stated that his leadership and model, give a shining example to every military type, to "install" their own kind of democracy (Musharaf is a glaring example). Ignore the voice of the people and give democracy a kickstart. Yeah right.

When democracy gets kicked and punched, I look at the U.S. which has always been a beacon of light in this department. Lately though, despite how increasingly vocal the administration is about making Democracy the cornerstone of their foreign policy, they are a glaring example of what not to do.............and they lend support to every Tom, Thai and lonestar who would want to bring about his own brand of "democracy" without waiting for the ballot box or the conditions of a willing populace.....

DD

So when Bush supports unsavory characters such as Musharreff, this emboldens would be tyrants the world over to piss on democracy?

Yet I guess these same would-be tyrants were not watching when Bush took out Saddam, called others the axis of evil, and openly criticized Putins anti democratic antics in Russia

Hyalucent

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: British North America

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:31 am Post subject:

Beej wrote:

So when Bush supports unsavory characters such as Musharreff, this emboldens would be tyrants the world over to piss on democracy?

Musharraf may be a military dictator but he took charge when it was needed. At the time of his coup, there were hundreds of thousands of troops lined up on the India-Pakistan border. One shot would have been enough to set it off. Pervez took charge, ordered the Pakistani army to stand down and India then followed. He probably saved a heck of a lot of lives. Since then, he's walked an unbelievable tightrope between the U.S. and the Arab world. I don't know how he's hung on this long, but I suspect things would have been a lot more messed up if he didn't do what he did.

pidgin

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject:

bucheon bum wrote:

pidgin wrote:

I wouldn't consider Toxin's track record to be democratic, personally. I think, in the end, it'll work out better for the Thais. At least, I hope so.

What has he done that has been anti-democracy? I admit I'm not the most informed when it comes to Thai politics.

Look at Jaganath's post above...add-in buying votes from the peasants and that about sums it up.

jaganath69

Joined: 17 Jul 2003

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject:

pidgin wrote:

bucheon bum wrote:

pidgin wrote:

I wouldn't consider Toxin's track record to be democratic, personally. I think, in the end, it'll work out better for the Thais. At least, I hope so.

What has he done that has been anti-democracy? I admit I'm not the most informed when it comes to Thai politics.

Look at Jaganath's post above...add-in buying votes from the peasants and that about sums it up.

Vote buying is de-riguer in Thai politics, especially when wooing the bumpkin vote in Isaan, where elections are won and lost due to the real third world demographics. When I lived there in 95, I took a trip with my then girlfriend whose hometown was in Sakon Nakhon provence, about as Isaan as you can get. There had recently been an election, the winner that year was Banharn Silpa Archa, who was known in the Thai press as the 'walking ATM'. My GF's family members told me how Khun B's people would come to the village, dispensing small amounts of cash predicated on your position in the village heirarchy. To people who make under the (then) minimum wage of 2000 baht a month, 100, 200 or 500 baht was a big bung. The papers at the time would also recall how banks would be fresh out of 100 and 500 baht notes when the campaigners come to town. For a good summary of the Thai electoral process, I recommend 'Guns, Girls, Gambling and Ganja' by Pakuk Phongpaichit.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Since then, he's walked an unbelievable tightrope between the U.S. and the Arab world. I don't know how he's hung on this long, but I suspect things would have been a lot more messed up if he didn't do what he did.

I wouldn't call what Musharraf has been doing walking a tight-rope. Repeatedly shooting himself in the foot seems like a better description.

canuckistan
Mod Team

Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Coup in Thailand

jaganath69 wrote:

canuckistan wrote:

Not good news for Thailand:

Its great news for Thailand, as long as the military hand back power quickly enough. Thaksin was a corrupt populist who made the foreigner-bashing politicians here look like amatuers. His drug war killing hundreds of innocent bystanders or people merely suspected of involvement and heavy-handed approach in the south just compounded matters. Supposedly free QANGO bodies were run over roughshod and his hiding/disposal of family assets just show how much contempt this former *beep* copper has for democratic process. Oh yeah, and lets not forget the blow he dealt to both retired expats and foreign investors alike with his recent promise to rescind the investors visa, once again in the name of tarnishing all foreigners with the same brush. Personally, I hope they lock him up and he rots in jail when he comes back from his junket in NY. Now tell me you still think its a bad thing?

No matter how much the opposition may hate a democratically elected leader, one doesn't send in the army to take over. It's just bad business. And don't tell me he stole 2 landslide victories. If the people can vote him in, they can vote him out too.

Quote:

Its great news for Thailand, as long as the military hand back power quickly enough.

There's the rub.
Time will tell how sincere this latest dude is about preserving any kind of democratic process.
I have my doubts given the manner in which he's just rolled into town.

bucheon bum

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Coup in Thailand

canuckistan wrote:

jaganath69 wrote:

canuckistan wrote:

Not good news for Thailand:

Its great news for Thailand, as long as the military hand back power quickly enough. Thaksin was a corrupt populist who made the foreigner-bashing politicians here look like amatuers. His drug war killing hundreds of innocent bystanders or people merely suspected of involvement and heavy-handed approach in the south just compounded matters. Supposedly free QANGO bodies were run over roughshod and his hiding/disposal of family assets just show how much contempt this former *beep* copper has for democratic process. Oh yeah, and lets not forget the blow he dealt to both retired expats and foreign investors alike with his recent promise to rescind the investors visa, once again in the name of tarnishing all foreigners with the same brush. Personally, I hope they lock him up and he rots in jail when he comes back from his junket in NY. Now tell me you still think its a bad thing?

Quote:

Its great news for Thailand, as long as the military hand back power quickly enough.

There's the rub.
Time will tell how sincere this latest dude is about preserving any kind of democratic process.
I have my doubts given the manner in which he's just rolled into town.

one of the few times i agree with you. that being said, I do believe in the army's sincerity in stepping aside w/in a year.

jaganath69

Joined: 17 Jul 2003

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:48 am Post subject: Re: Coup in Thailand

canuckistan wrote:

jaganath69 wrote:

canuckistan wrote:

Not good news for Thailand:

Its great news for Thailand, as long as the military hand back power quickly enough. Thaksin was a corrupt populist who made the foreigner-bashing politicians here look like amatuers. His drug war killing hundreds of innocent bystanders or people merely suspected of involvement and heavy-handed approach in the south just compounded matters. Supposedly free QANGO bodies were run over roughshod and his hiding/disposal of family assets just show how much contempt this former *beep* copper has for democratic process. Oh yeah, and lets not forget the blow he dealt to both retired expats and foreign investors alike with his recent promise to rescind the investors visa, once again in the name of tarnishing all foreigners with the same brush. Personally, I hope they lock him up and he rots in jail when he comes back from his junket in NY. Now tell me you still think its a bad thing?

Quote:

Its great news for Thailand, as long as the military hand back power quickly enough.

There's the rub.
Time will tell how sincere this latest dude is about preserving any kind of democratic process.
I have my doubts given the manner in which he's just rolled into town.

What does one do when a democratically elected leader, buys his way there and then stacks the very official bodies supposed to deal with this with his cronies? Further, what does one do when the same leader subverts the rule of law (drug war) carrying out extra judicial killings that are also not investigated due to, you guessed it, his cronies being in positions to let him off the hook. And, what to do when impeachable financial actions are committed buy this same leader and he gets around it again, by...feck it, you know how.

You present a pretty limited definition of democracy, perhaps you are a fan of Schumpeter, perhaps not. However, an election alone doth not a democracy make. Remember liberal democracy is based on institutions and the rule of law as well. Both have been well and truley subverted in this case.

The army looks set to hand over to a civilian caretaker government soon, with free and fair elections coming later next year. They will remember the lessons of 1992, remember the people taking to the streets, the King removing his sanction from the military. The people will be the watchdog of democracy in the long run and at the end I believe this is just a small step backward to take two forward. I do however respect your scepticism, its very healthy indeed.

Hyalucent

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: British North America

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:00 am Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

Quote:

I wouldn't call what Musharraf has been doing walking a tight-rope. Repeatedly shooting himself in the foot seems like a better description.

Still not convinced. That article expected he'd be gone by March 23 yet he's still in power. It's no surprise that he has domestic protests. The country is harbouring all the spillover of terrorists from Afghanistan and the people of Pakistan are not known to be great friends of the U.S. Yet, opposition has been kept from escalating so much that Musharraf would lose power, while at the same time, the U.S. has maintained enough confidence in him that they haven't ordered the expansion of the Afghan campaign into Pakistan.

I sure wouldn't want his job.

Ajarn Miguk

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Location: TDY As Assigned

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: Here

My sense of things here presently is that the military action is being viewed favorably by most Thais. This is especially true for the people in the Bangkok area. The mood is somewhat subdued, though, and it is still surreal to run across soldiers and armored vehicles at various points. Leaving work at the uni yesterday, I walked through a squad or two of Thai soldiers that were washing up, changing uniforms and putting on gear. They were all smiles and some even stopped what they were doing to wai me and move their weapons and other equipment so I could get by.

jaganath69

Joined: 17 Jul 2003

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Here

Ajarn Miguk wrote:

My sense of things here presently is that the military action is being viewed favorably by most Thais. This is especially true for the people in the Bangkok area. The mood is somewhat subdued, though, and it is still surreal to run across soldiers and armored vehicles at various points. Leaving work at the uni yesterday, I walked through a squad or two of Thai soldiers that were washing up, changing uniforms and putting on gear. They were all smiles and some even stopped what they were doing to wai me and move their weapons and other equipment so I could get by. Cool

Cool, can you take some pics for us?

Ajarn Miguk

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Location: TDY As Assigned

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: Camera

I would if I could figure out how to use the camera feature of my iPAQ!

Hyalucent

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: British North America

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:37 am Post subject:

bucheon bum wrote:

Hyalucent wrote:

Any idea how Sharia law might affect Phuket? Rolling Eyes

yes, because that is what he's all about: implementing sharia law.

Come back to planet reality will you? As if this board doesn't have enough crap about Muslims and hysteria related to Islam.

A-Ha!

Quote:

Thai go-go girls go away, military says

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Thai coup leaders have banned go-go girls from dancing near tanks and troops on Bangkok streets as a distraction from the serious business of power, a spokesman said on Wednesday.

Full story from Reuters...

Tip o' the iceberg, I tell ya.

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