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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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 Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| ChuckECheese wrote: |
KJI is full of crap. Int'l community should not fall into his bull again. Just need to keep the sanction going until his booted out.
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I agree, he cannot keep chopping and changing, bluffing and apologising. The cry wolf game has worn thin. Its just not how the nuclear club works.
Int. sanctions won't work without China's full participation.
TThey both look like smug jackasses in that picture. "hahaha we scared them, now lets get some more aid out of them again. We can keep this up forever."
Time to face KJi with his worst fear: the determined international strangulation of his regime and existence. Id' like to see him hang at the war crimes tribunal in a few years from now. |
It is this sort of blind rhetoric that has the world in the screwed up situation it is.
Global warming? Doesn't exist!
Iraq? They attacked us! Kill 'em! No, they didn't. WMDs! Don't exist. Regime change, democracy! Chaos.
NK: They're evil! Strangle them! Break them!
But, uh, the sudden, uncontrolled collapse of NK would be a financial nightmare.
Kill 'em!
Um, sudden collapse could lead to a desperate last gasp via war.
So what? Kill 'em!
It could lead to a wider conflict with China.
So? Kill 'em!
Have you NOT noticed Bush and his policies are supported by an ever-shrinking minority of of Americans? They don't work.
Brilliant. Just freaking brilliant. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:17 am Post subject: |
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"I sorrrryyy."
Kim Jong Il: (Hans Blix! Oh, no!)
Oh, hello, great to see you again, Hans!
Hans Blix: Mr. Il, I was supposed to be allowed to inspect your palace today, and your guards won�t let me into certain areas.
Kim Jong Il: Hans, Hans, Hans, we�ve been through this a dozen times! I don�t have any weapons of mass destruction, OK Hans?!
Hans Blix: Then let me look around, so I can ease the UN�s collective mind. I�m sorry, but the UN must be firm with you. Let me see your whole palace, or else.
Kim Jong Il: Or else what?
Hans Blix: Or else we will be very, very angry with you, and we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are.
Kim Jong Il: Oh, OK�
Jong Il then pulls a trapdoor to feed Blix to a piranha.
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| He's not saying anything new. He's been saying for months NK's return to the six-party talks is conditional upon the US dropping sanctions over its money laundering and other illegal activities...but there may be an opening here. |
Well it is new. Hes not referring to the laundering sanctions. Hes referring to the latest ones. What is new is:
1. KJI actually APOLOGIZED for something he did.
2. He then humbled himself by dropping the demand for direct talks, saying any format is ok. |
Uh...** scratches head ** YES HE IS referring to the money laundering sanctions:
| The Associated Press wrote: |
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) -- North Korean leader Kim Jong Il expressed regret about his country's nuclear test to a Chinese delegation and said Pyongyang would return to nuclear talks if Washington backs off from its financial sanctions, a South Korean newspaper reported Friday.
"If the U.S. makes a concession to some degree, we will also make a concession to some degree, whether it be bilateral talks or six-party talks," Kim was quoted as telling a Chinese envoy, the mass-circulation Chosun Ilbo reported, citing a diplomatic source in China.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/19/nkorea.kim.ap/index.html
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| and the Chosun Ilbo wrote: |
North Korean leader Kim Jong-il told a special Chinese envoy on Thursday the hermit nation will only (my italics - MOS) return to six-party talks on its nuclear program if the U.S. lifts sanctions, according to a Chinese diplomatic source.
The source quoted the North Korean leader as telling State Councilor Tang Jiaxuan on Thursday morning that North Korea will negotiate on its nuclear program, be it in new bilateral talks with the U.S. or the existing six-way framework, if the U.S. makes some concessions.
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200610/200610200001.html |
North Korea has been saying all along that they walked away from the six-party talks in retaliation for the US sanctions for NKs money-laundering and other illegal activities, and that they would only be willing to return to the six-party bargaining table if the sanctions were dropped. He said that before the missile test and before the nuke test. NK would prefer to negotiate directly with the US, but the US has insisted that any negotiations over the NK nuke program must be within the six-party framework.
So, he hasn't really made any substantive concessions, even if the tone of his remarks is a little softer it was before. The fact that he's "regretted" the nuke test doesn't really amount to much of anything, because he hasn't offered anything new in terms of a negotiation position. He hasn't explicitly said, for example, that they will stop testing nukes. All he's really doing is whispering this week what he was screaming at the top of his lungs last week.
But I agree that the softer tone of the message may open the doors to a less confrontational negotiation environment by both sides. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:13 am Post subject: |
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Maybe KJI should impose some pre-requisites of his own. I might suggest a few.
1. Stop the CIA from being the world's #1 drug smuggler, smuggling cocaine from Colombia and heroin from Afghanistan.
2. Stop the private bank the Fed Reserve, from printing any more fiat money and flooding the world with it.
3. Apologize to the citizens of the United States for planning and executing 9/11 and using it as a pretense for a never ending war on terrorism on an imaginary enemy that can never be defeated when the enemy you are fighting against is yourself.
4. Apologize for attacking Afghanistan and Iraq under false pretenses and the deaths of over 600,000 civilians so far and at least 3000 dead American soldiers, not to mention deaths of other nation's soldiers and the wounded and the wasting of untold billions of dollars.
5. Apologize for creating more of the very thing you say you are fighting - terrorists.
6. Apologize for taking away the right of habeas corpus from American citizens and anyone else that suits your fancy - the foundation of the western world's criminal legal system for over 800 years.
7. Apologize to all those innocent 'enemy combatants' that you've kept and tortured in those illegal 'secret prisons' you have scattered around the world.
8. Apologize for preparing beforehand the Patriot Act and shoving it down the throats of American citizens who trusted you while you were using a pumped up mirage of 'terror' to beget fear in them.
9. Apologize for using your brother Jeb and the Extreme Court members your father appointed to appoint you president back in 2000.
10. Apologize for stealing the 2004 election by ballot box software hacking in Ohio.
11. Apologize for making Americans the Germans of the 1930s, hated around the world for what you are doing.
12. Apologize for making Orwell's 1984 come true in our lifetime with your Doublespeak.
Last edited by Meegook on Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:21 am; edited 2 times in total |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Maybe JKI should impose some pre-requisites of his own. I might suggest a few. |
Who the hell is JKI? Are those your initials? 
Ease up on your soju, dude. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
But, uh, the sudden, uncontrolled collapse of NK would be a financial nightmare. |
What collapse? They're already gone through the floor and are in freefall.How much worse can it get than it already is?
They need an escape from hell. Not a long term plan to prolong the misery by continuing to prop up the parasite KJI. Yes they will suffer with sanctions, but the darkest hour is before dawn. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Ease up on your nitpicking, dude. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| How much worse can it get than it already is? |
Much, think millions of NK refugees flooding S.Korea. The population of NK is estimated at 22 million. If only 10% headed south, that be 2.2 million people or about 1/2 the population of S. Korea's second largest city. |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Meegook wrote: |
| Quote: |
| How much worse can it get than it already is? |
Much, think millions of NK refugees flooding S.Korea. The population of NK is estimated at 22 million. If only 10% headed south, that be 2.2 million people or about 1/2 the population of S. Korea's second largest city. |
Ah! More demand for English teachers. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| Meegook wrote: |
| Quote: |
| How much worse can it get than it already is? |
Much, think millions of NK refugees flooding S.Korea. The population of NK is estimated at 22 million. If only 10% headed south, that be 2.2 million people or about 1/2 the population of S. Korea's second largest city. |
It'd never happen.
How they gonna get here, astroprojection?
Theres the DMZ one side and a brand new fortified barbed wire fence going up the other. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:46 am Post subject: |
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What would you do?
And another free pass for the South Koreans.
"Legally, North Koreans are considered citizens of South Korea and not entitled to refugee status in the US."
"There is an exodus of massive proportions taking place out of North Korea," said Senator Brownback, who put the figure at about 300,000 people."
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/29/1059244621685.html
Anybody know what, if anything, South Korea is doing for the current and possible NK refugees?
"Seoul has been historically reticent to implement policies that would help large numbers of North Korean refugees to reach freedom in the South, despite public entreaties about pan-Korean brotherhood and a clause in the South Korean constitution that makes all Koreans citizens of South Korea. Since the end of the Korean War, only 5,000 North Koreans have defected to the South. President Kim Dae-jung's "Sunshine Policy", affirmed though hardened by current President Roh Moo-hyun, sought to achieve gradual change in the North and, as such, required smooth inter-Korean relations that would be jeopardized by provocations, such as accepting refugees.
An official South Korean policy that was perceived as attracting large numbers of refugees would risk offending Pyongyang and undermining the policy. Moreover, an exodus of North Koreans could cause a collapse of the regime and force Seoul immediately to face the staggering cost of reunification."
5000 North Koreans defected to South Korea since the end of the Korean War? That's about 100 people a year. Ridiculous.
Maybe it's time for South Koreans to start facing some of the costs of being a leading economic country and for not having to fully deal with North Korea for the last 50 years. Basically its enjoyed greatly subsidized defense for over 50 years while building a economic system that all but excludes imports to protect its own while exporting as much as possible for its own benefit. Looks like it better start changing it's policies of inwardness and quick. |
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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Kim Jong IL says he is sorry for Nuke testing |
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Haha... as soon as Kim Jong loses his whiskey imports, McDonalds "flown in burgers" and other "luxury" goods, he suddenly says "sorry" and decides maybe the six party talks are ok?  |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Seoul has been historically reticent to implement policies that would help large numbers of North Korean refugees to reach freedom in the South, despite public entreaties about pan-Korean brotherhood and a clause in the South Korean constitution that makes all Koreans citizens of South Korea. |
Well, there's the solution. Kim Jong Il is a South Korean citizen. Has he been paying his taxes? No? Running unlicensed hogwans staffed with kidnapped Japanese without E-2s? Time for another "police action".
Unfortunately, most of the uniformed South Korean police are currently very busy turning intersection stoplights from green to red and back to green. KJI must wait. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Well, there's the solution. Kim Jong Il is a South Korean citizen. Has he been paying his taxes? No? Running unlicensed hogwans staffed with kidnapped Japanese without E-2s? Time for another "police action".
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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...and this is starting to look more positive, although I don't think it's substantial enough:
| Quote: |
N.Korea Pledges no Second Nuke Test
North Korean leader Kim Jong-il told Chinese special envoy Tang Jiaxuan on Thursday that his country has no plans to conduct an additional nuclear test, a diplomatic source in Beijing said. The source also said Kim made the promise during their meeting in Pyongyang.
Asked if the North Korean leader said he would postpone a nuclear test for the time being or stop it altogether, the source said to his knowledge, Kim made it clear that he has no further plans for nuclear tests.
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200610/200610210004.html |
I think the headline is a little misleading, but it sounds hopeful. |
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