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Why the Korean media hates us
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jhaelin

Joined: 30 Aug 2006

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:24 am Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

As a former journalist I know that you have to write whatever sells newspapers. The Korean media plays to the xenophobia of koreans because they know it appeals to the historic Korean sense of unity against outsiders. They're irresponsible, but to Koreans profit is all that matters. A completely objective, unemotive and independent newspaper just wouldn't make it here.

so having been a professional and conscientious journalist,
you undoubtedly reframe from making gross generalizations
about people and things.
you would of course make sure to not be biased and unprofessional,
avoiding such sweeping statements like, "to Koreans profit is all that matters".

you would of course get your facts straight and reference your opinions.
and since you are fluent in korean,
you undoubtedly have read and personally reviewed the quality/independence of all the newpapers that are circulated in korea.
how else would you be able to authoritatively state that, "A completely objective, unemotive and independent newspaper just wouldn't make it here."

well for my 2 cents worth let me say,
the variety of profit newspapers and corporate media available in korea is much more diverse,
compared to what i experience back home in the states (where we have viacom, disney and GE).

Satori

Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:14 am Post subject:

jhaelin wrote:

this is for the OP...

save your energy man.
no matter how much elequence, elegance and subtlety you may use to pose your arguments here,
if it's falling on deaf ears, you're just gonna frustrate yourself.

ironically on this site,
the more logical, clear, and relevant you make your arguments,
the less rational, understandable, and to the point will be the responses.

definitely don't use subtley to flavor your ideas, because the room you leave for readers to roam thoughtfully, will be used against you has they drag the trash in and take up all the space.

what worries me is whether some of these folks actually don't get it...
or worse...
they do get it!
and the garbage/noise they use to drown out any effective discourse is just part of their secret agendas.

i know i'm being obscure and perhaps paranoid...but...

The op was neither logical nor clear, and I proved that by taking him to peices and he didn't return.

Satori

Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:15 am Post subject:

jhaelin wrote:

well for my 2 cents worth let me say,
the variety of profit newspapers and corporate media available in korea is much more diverse,
compared to what i experience back home in the states (where we have viacom, disney and GE).

There is variety, but that doesn't excuse the consistantly xenophobic tone of most publications.

jhaelin

Joined: 30 Aug 2006

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:51 am Post subject:

Quote:

there is variety, but that doesn't excuse the consistantly xenophobic tone of most publications.

i would like actual concrete examples of what you mean by xenophobic tone of publication.
please paste a link, just one, so i can see what you mean exactly.
this is not some challenge...i genuinely want to know what you mean.

btw - regarding how foreign teachers are always portrayed in a generalized and stereotypically negative fashion in korea,
i had a thought that i would like to share with you all.
i think i can put this issue into better perspective, particular for foreign teachers who are caucasian, and likely to come from a background where they were part of the majority(ethnically/culturally) in their community.

first, i agree it's a terrible and totally unfair thing to be profiled, especially ethnically, and particularly if it's in a negative way.
but i suspect for some of you this is the first and likely only place, where you have been able to experience this first hand from the perspective of the victim rather than as the unknowing perpetrator of racial profiling.

that's what this foreign teacher profiling in korea really is about. it's racial profiling. most of us are not asian and likely to be white and some black (p.s i apologize for any use of non-politically correct racial terms).

so what's my point?

although this issue is a negative one, we should not think that it proves korea to be exeptionally backward or racist.
becasue if we do, what does that say about our own cultures.
as a non-white american, i can tell you with authority and experience that racial profiling exists in america and continues to go on strong as ever.
for some of you white americans, please go have a nice conversation with any asian or black american you may know, and maybe for the first time some of you may be able to truly emphasize with the subtle daily injustices many americans feel everyday. i mean we're not even foreign workers, we're citizens for crying out loud!
so when i see on tv the dorky grocery/laundry owner who's good at math, terrible at driving, and speaks with horrible pronunciation, i get this not so good feeling, which i hope many of you can now more clearly understand.
similarly, another beating of a black suspect on cops is almost cliche now.
i won't even try to imagine what arab/muslim americans must be going through these days...

i'm sure, canada, england, australia, new zealand, also have their share of racial profiling.

so can we really hold korea to standards that we can't maintain ourselves?

this phenomenon must be fixed,
but how about we take back what we learn in our travels abroad,
and just make a little change in our own personal lives and perhaps in summation,
we can improve our own cultures, rather than worrying too much about korean culture.
because, as much as we want koreans to be more "global citizens",
we have issues of our own to fix, unless we want to be seen as "global hypocrites".

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:42 am Post subject:

jhaelin wrote:

Quote:

there is variety, but that doesn't excuse the consistantly xenophobic tone of most publications.

i would like actual concrete examples of what you mean by xenophobic tone of publication.

I'm loathe to bring it all back, but instantly 2 examples spring to mind that had a big impact on the perception of foreigners here, and I'm not sure how long you've been here to know of these.

a) The running over of 2 schoolgirls by US soldiers.
This was an accidental event and the USFK paid compensation to the families of the two.
However this was lost on the korean pravda which whipped up the incident into a nationwide frenzy of anti american protests. Of course hundreds of koreans are run over by korean drivers every year but that doesn't make headlines.

b) The english spectrum incident
Idle comments and boasts on a messageboard similar to this one by 2 or 3 english teachers about a party with korean women feauturing a wet T-shirt contest made headlines and the netizens jammed naver, many demanding all foreigners leave. The one korean gal photographed with a wet t-shirt was publicly shamed, hounded and lost her job. Teachers were further portrayed as lazy, drunken, drug-taking womanisers: central to the feature was a picture of a foreigner with his girlfriend: the byline asserting that foreign teachers not only sell their students drugs but sleep with under age girls.

Because of this ridiculous and one-sided portrayal that tarrs all foreigners, the public perception of us has noticeably changed over the years. And certainly not for the better.

freethought

Joined: 13 Mar 2005

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:54 am Post subject:

.[/quote] The op was neither logical nor clear, and I proved that by taking him to peices and he didn't return.[/quote] I didn't return because the discussion was over. I had stated my opinion, others had stated theirs. The discussion wasn't going any where further. when people don't agree with me I'm man enough to see it, realize it and move on. Moreover, there was a 4 or 5 day break in posts, that's why " (I) he didn't return." If you want to see it as and claim lone responsibility for 'taking me to pieces', when all kinds of other people were also disagreeing with me, then I guess you go ahead and do that. But if it means that much to you, and based on your posts in this thread, especially the quote above, I would suggest finding something a little more worth while to do with your time, like volunteering at an orphanage etc.

jhaelin

Joined: 30 Aug 2006

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:12 am Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

a) The running over of 2 schoolgirls by US soldiers.

b) The english spectrum incident

i wont try to argue against what you see as overreaction by koreans to these two incidents.

instead, i want you to consider two hypothetical situations in somewhat similar circumstances.

imagine somewhere in the state of georgia or tennessee 50 years ago.
(as i'm american i'll use america as an example).

if a sizable foreign population of blacks were found to be writing lewd comments of sexual exploits with white women in public bulletin boards, how would the community have responded to them.
rather than dealing with angry shouts and protests, i suspect they would have quickly become "strange fruit" hanging from the tree.

there's never been a foreign military on US soil, and one that was racially different on top of that.
but just imagine japan won ww2.
they have a base in the pacific coast of america, let's say california somewhere.
if japanese troops accidentally killed a couple of young white girls with a tank how do you think californians would respond?

just simply putting ourselves in the shoes of others and empathizing through examples from our own cultures/histories,
or just imagining their perspectives can really be helpful, i think.
not only to help see koreans in a better light
but to recognize ourselves clearer.

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:34 am Post subject:

[quote="jhaelin"]

Quote:

imagine somewhere in the state of georgia or tennessee 50 years ago.
(as i'm american i'll use america as an example).

Sure and korea has to go through and overcome this stage. While most koreans have no contact with foreigners and cannot communicate with them anyhow, they take their perceptions from the media. which is acting irresponsibly in my view. however its no biggie, foreigners aren't attacked in the streets here, and barriers will break down in time.

Quote:

there's never been a foreign military on US soil, and one that was racially different on top of that.
but just imagine japan won ww2.
they have a base in the pacific coast of america, let's say california somewhere.
if japanese troops accidentally killed a couple of young white girls with a tank how do you think californians would respond?

i totally agree. no country likes being occupied by outsiders, be they friendly or not. Westerners have no idea what it would feel like. so you make allowances. Although of course the USFk are here by consent of the korean people.

caniff

Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:47 am Post subject:

jhaelin wrote:

Well, the White House was torched on one occasion. Must have been the locals, huh?

And the Americans are not an occupying force in Korea. We are ostensibly here to protect South Korea, and all indications are that the government WANTS our forces to remain.

Your analogies suck.

Hollywoodaction

Joined: 02 Jul 2004

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject:

freethought wrote:

I really give up with you people.

Maybe you're right, maybe I'm not a thinker. The fact I have an IQ above 170, an MA, work history working for two prime ministers etc certainly doesn't indicate any thought whatsoever.

Kim Campbell and Brian Mulroney? Laughing

freethought

Joined: 13 Mar 2005

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject:

Hollywoodaction wrote:

freethought wrote:

Kim Campbell and Brian Mulroney? Laughing

Close. Mumbles and Junior.

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject:

freethought wrote:

Hollywoodaction wrote:

freethought wrote:

Kim Campbell and Brian Mulroney? Laughing

Close. Mumbles and Junior.

Freethought:

Do you think Chretien and Martin brag about knowing you?

freethought

Joined: 13 Mar 2005

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

freethought wrote:

Hollywoodaction wrote:

freethought wrote:

Kim Campbell and Brian Mulroney? Laughing

Close. Mumbles and Junior.

Freethought:

Do you think Chretien and Martin brag about knowing you?

Nope. and I don't brag about knowing them, either. Hated Team Martin and resigned and he wouldn't even know who I was, anyway. Though, many on his staff would remember my resignation.

As for Chretien, I didn't mind working for him and the party, and if he were to remember me it would be as 'that guy who wrote the lines.'

I am curious as to why you ask, though... Also, isn;t this more of a private message question? I realize it's likely a bit of an attack in some way, but still.

khyber

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:47 am Post subject:

Judging by my experience with newspapers, it's very obvious to me that they have NO qualms about disregarding "fact" checks.

jhaelin

Joined: 30 Aug 2006

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:06 am Post subject:

caniff wrote:

And the Americans are not an occupying force in Korea. We are ostensibly here to protect South Korea, and all indications are that the government WANTS our forces to remain.
Your analogies suck.

i never suggested that america was an "occupying force" in korea.
i was creating a hypothetical scenario, where people could get a better perspective of how koreans might feel about the issue of an ethnically different miliary force that maintained bases in the country.

if you have a problem with "hypothetical scenarios" here's an actual analogy for you to consider.
although, america doesn't consider itself an occupying force in iraq, it is debatable, whether the iraqis feel the same way.
even though, we may say that the provisional government, and the constitution of iraq (which was created while the US military was still occupying the country), support continued presence of the US military in iraq, many disagree with this view.
notably, many (iraqis) view the decisions made by a few iraqis (most of whom were closely tied to american and western interests, or were downright CIA assets) does not necessarily reflect the desires of the iraqi people.
in similar respect, many koreans feel that what happened in korea before, during and after the korean war was very simlar to what is happening in iraq today.

i think many koreans feel that their early leaders (and sometimes even their current leaders) were merely tools for foreign interest handlers. An obvious example would be Sigmin Rhee.

there is a real disconnect between what the koreans want and what their government wants.
as we all know democracy is a relatively new thing in korea, so the years the US military was asked to "defend" korea by its undemocratically appointed leaders (i.e. 1950's-1990's) does not necessarily reflect the wishes of the general population.

i am not trying to question the purpose, goal and intent of the US military in maintainng bases in korea for the past 50 years.
i am only pointing out that the military presence for 40 of those years occurred without the democratic consent of the korean people, which perhaps may then be considered an "occupation".

but let's get back to the main idea of what i was trying to share before.
would any population feel comfortable with a prolonged foreign military "presence", regardless of the circumstances?
50 years is a long time...

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