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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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 Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Please help me out. Last I checked, these things called 'dokdo' and 'east sea' don't even exist. What in the world are you referring to? Please call things by their real names.
| Guri Guy wrote: |
Koreans refer to China as "Older brother" and Japan as "Younger brother". Confusionist (sic) style thinking.
If Older brother is stronger or perceived to be better that is ok. However if younger brother does better, that is a source of shame and embarrassment.
Japan colonizing Korea was a complete humiliation for Korea as they lost their independence. Even being China's b*tch (vassal), Koreans could maintain the illusion that they were independent and strong. In reality they were neither.
Japan actually annexing Korea was so damaging to the Korean psyche that they still haven't recovered after over 60 years. That is why they look for petty revenge with issues like Dokdo or the East Sea. Koreans seem to want to fight old wars again or more precisely, actually fight. |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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James:
The vast majority of the Hispanics in the South West want to Americans not Mexicans. Think, Bush's buddy Gonzales. There are darned few ethnic Germans in old Puissia to recalim it. It wasn't called ethnic cleansing but that's what it was.
Guri:
Our residsent Japofile strikes again. mostly as wrong as ever. THe Japanese treated Korea worse than China ever did. (Almost as bad as central Canada treats Western Canada.) Korea became a place that could be raped, ravaged and pillaged for the Emperor.
Just think, the Koreans have been farly content to be a semi-colony of the US for 62 years while gaining an eternal hatred of the Japanese in only 35 years. Go figure.
Dokdo is Korean. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
James:
The vast majority of the Hispanics in the South West want to Americans not Mexicans. Think, Bush's buddy Gonzales. There are darned few ethnic Germans in old Puissia to recalim it. It wasn't called ethnic cleansing but that's what it was.
Guri:
Our residsent Japofile strikes again. mostly as wrong as ever. THe Japanese treated Korea worse than China ever did. (Almost as bad as central Canada treats Western Canada.) Korea became a place that could be raped, ravaged and pillaged for the Emperor.
Just think, the Koreans have been farly content to be a semi-colony of the US for 62 years while gaining an eternal hatred of the Japanese in only 35 years. Go figure.
Dokdo is Korean. |
Korea is not a colony of the US.
How many AMericans do you know permanently living in the ROK under either citizienship or siome time of permanent alien status? |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Read what I said "semi colony". The Americans, even at the worst of their interventions behaved much better than the Japs did.
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Tjames426
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Just think, the Koreans have been farly content to be a semi-colony of the US for 62 years while gaining an eternal hatred of the Japanese in only 35 years. Go figure.
___
Which is why the South Koreans want their China asslicking Northern brothers led by the eternal Leader Dictator Kim to come liberate them right? |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Guri:
Our residsent Japofile strikes again. mostly as wrong as ever. THe Japanese treated Korea worse than China ever did. (Almost as bad as central Canada treats Western Canada.) Korea became a place that could be raped, ravaged and pillaged for the Emperor.
Just think, the Koreans have been farly content to be a semi-colony of the US for 62 years while gaining an eternal hatred of the Japanese in only 35 years. Go figure.
Dokdo is Korean. |
You sir are a total idiot. First off, I am not a Japofile. That is not even a word anyway dumbass. Second off, comparing it to Central and Western Canada is franking mind boggling. What the hell are you thinking? Are you saying central Canada has raped, ravaged and pillaged Western Canada? Frankly, English doesn't have the words to describe how stupid you really are.
Just because I don't believe in the Korean myth about Dokdo or the East Sea doesn't make me a "Jap lover" or whatever. I actually like Korea and I hope it succeeds in the future. One way to ensure that is that it is honest about it's history.
Dokdo is Korean? Maybe a Korean word but certainly not Korean territory. Now nut up or shut up. Show me evidence that Korea had knowledge about Dokdo before 1905 or their case falls apart. Good luck because it doesn't seem to exist.
Last edited by Guri Guy on Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
| Yeah, Korea deserves to get revenge for Japan, you know, establishing a school system (there weren't any schools before), building all that infrastructure. and generally bringing civilization to the uncivilized. |
The argument the Japan is responsible for Korean modernisation is pretty old and redundant. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The argument the Japan is responsible for Korean modernisation is pretty old and redundant. |
Who modernized Korea then? |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Guri Guy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The argument the Japan is responsible for Korean modernisation is pretty old and redundant. |
Who modernized Korea then? |
The same way Japan became modernized. On its own, with a little help from many countries. |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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guri:
Now that your knickers are in a knot, and when you get over your protestations of indignation.
Canada, the early 1980's oild prices have taken a humongous jump, interest rates are nearing 20% Pierre Trudeau (Marxist friend of Casro and Mao is in power in Canada.
Under Alberta, lies 90% of the oil in Canada. It is constitutionally oil belonging to Alberta. Alberta was selling oil to the rest of Canada at the world price and was making so much money that the entire economic structure of Canada was being changed. Two of Canada's biggest banks were on the verge of moving their head offices to Calgary.
Trudeau forced legislation (called the National Energy Program) that Alberta would sell the rest of Canada oil at 18.25 a barrel when the world price was about 33.00 a barrel. The Premier of Alberta sais, no deal we'll lleave the oild in the ground. Trudeau threatened to nationalize but promised that if oil dropped below 18.25 the ROC would still pay that price. It dropped to around 9.50 and that is what was paid.
It is estmated that the NEP cost Alberta between 80 and 90 billion dollars of lost revenue. That is nearly 100,000 per person in Alberta.
That by my defination is a rape ravage and pillage.
THe Japanese colonialists cut most of the tree in Korea (the ones they missed were done in by the Korean War) to build aiprlaes etc. The exploited gold in North Korea, they abducted comfort women, they tried to make the Koreans give up their language, they forced the sale of rice at reduced prices.
That, my Japofile poster is rape, ravage and pillage. |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| merkurix wrote: |
| Guri Guy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The argument the Japan is responsible for Korean modernisation is pretty old and redundant. |
Who modernized Korea then? |
The same way Japan became modernized. On its own, with a little help from many countries. |
Thank you.
However, some Japanese influenced features remain, such as the nonsensical system of building numbers rather than street numbers.
I suppose trying to wipe out the Korean language was instrumental in Korean modernisation too. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, you are wrong. If you look at pictures of Korea before the annexation, they were a basketcase. Not modernizing, and seeming to not be trying.
Harsh as it was, Japan modernized Korea by force. It may be an old and redundant argument, but as long as people deny/conveniently forget that fact, I will keep stating it.
| samd wrote: |
| merkurix wrote: |
| Guri Guy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The argument the Japan is responsible for Korean modernisation is pretty old and redundant. |
Who modernized Korea then? |
The same way Japan became modernized. On its own, with a little help from many countries. |
Thank you.
However, some Japanese influenced features remain, such as the nonsensical system of building numbers rather than street numbers.
I suppose trying to wipe out the Korean language was instrumental in Korean modernisation too. |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| What about post-Korean War pictures? Thanks to the Japanese, Seoul sure was modern back in 1953. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
guri:
Now that your knickers are in a knot, and when you get over your protestations of indignation.
Canada, the early 1980's oild prices have taken a humongous jump, interest rates are nearing 20% Pierre Trudeau (Marxist friend of Casro and Mao is in power in Canada.
Under Alberta, lies 90% of the oil in Canada. It is constitutionally oil belonging to Alberta. Alberta was selling oil to the rest of Canada at the world price and was making so much money that the entire economic structure of Canada was being changed. Two of Canada's biggest banks were on the verge of moving their head offices to Calgary.
Trudeau forced legislation (called the National Energy Program) that Alberta would sell the rest of Canada oil at 18.25 a barrel when the world price was about 33.00 a barrel. The Premier of Alberta sais, no deal we'll lleave the oild in the ground. Trudeau threatened to nationalize but promised that if oil dropped below 18.25 the ROC would still pay that price. It dropped to around 9.50 and that is what was paid.
It is estmated that the NEP cost Alberta between 80 and 90 billion dollars of lost revenue. That is nearly 100,000 per person in Alberta.
That by my defination is a rape ravage and pillage.
THe Japanese colonialists cut most of the tree in Korea (the ones they missed were done in by the Korean War) to build aiprlaes etc. The exploited gold in North Korea, they abducted comfort women, they tried to make the Koreans give up their language, they forced the sale of rice at reduced prices.
That, my Japofile poster is rape, ravage and pillage. |
I assume there must be mass outcries from Western Canada. Surely Steven Harper who is admittedly Pro-Western must have addressed such an issue of rape, ravage and pillage. If you don't like the way Canada is run, fine. Like the apologists on the board are fond of saying, "If you don't like it, leave".
Speaking of deforestation let's check into that shall we 
Dynastic Degeneration
The founders of the Chos�n dynasty (1392-1910) imposed a tribute system on a little-commercialized peasant economy, collecting taxes in the form of a wide variety of products and mobilizing labor to obtain the handicrafts and services it needed. From the late sixteenth to the early seventeenth century, invading armies from Japan and China shattered the command system and forced a transition to a market economy. The damaged bureaucracy started to receive taxes in money commodities -- rice and cotton textiles -- and eventually began to mint copper coins and lifted restrictions on trade. The wars also dealt a serious blow to slavery and the pre-war system of forced labor, allowing labor markets to emerge.
Markets were slow to develop: grain markets in agricultural regions of Korea appeared less integrated than those in comparable parts of China and Japan. Population and acreage, however, recovered quickly from the adverse impact of the wars. Population growth came to a halt around 1800, and a century of demographic stagnation followed due to a higher level of mortality. During the nineteenth century, living standards appeared to deteriorate. Both wages and rents fell, tax receipts shrank, and budget deficits expanded, forcing the government to resort to debasement. Peasant rebellions occurred more frequently, and poor peasants left Korea for northern China.
Given that both acreage and population remained stable during the nineteenth century, the worsening living standards imply that the aggregate output contracted, because land and labor were being used in an ever more inefficient way. The decline in efficiency appeared to have much to do with disintegrating system of water control, which included flood control and irrigation.
The water control problem had institutional roots, as in Q'ing China. Population growth caused rapid deforestation, as peasants were able to readily obtain farmlands by burning off forests, where property rights usually remained ill-defined. (This contrasts with Tokugawa Japan, where conflicts and litigation following competitive exploitation of forests led to forest regulation.) While the deforestation wrought havoc on reservoirs by increasing the incidence and intensity of flooding, private individuals had little incentives to repair the damages, as they expected others to free-ride on the benefits of their efforts. Keeping the system of water control in good condition required public initiatives, which the dynastic government could not undertake. During the nineteenth century, powerful landowning families took turns controlling minor or ailing kings, reducing the state to an instrument serving private interests. Failing to take measures to maintain irrigation, provincial officials accelerated its decay by taking bribes in return for conniving at the practice of farming on the rich soil alongside reservoirs. Peasants responded to the decaying irrigation by developing new rice seed varieties, which could better resist droughts but yielded less. They also tried to counter the increasingly unstable water supply by building waterways linking farmlands with rivers, which frequently met opposition from people farming further downstream. Not only did provincial administrators fail to settle the water disputes, but also some of them became central causes of clashes. In 1894 peasants protested against a local administrator's attempts to generate private income by collecting fees for using waterways, which had been built by peasants. The uprising quickly developed into a nationwide peasant rebellion, which the crumbling government could suppress only by calling in military forces from China and Japan. An unforeseen consequence of the rebellion was the Sino-Japanese war fought on the Korean soil, where Japan defeated China, tipping the balance of power in Korea critically in her favor.
The water control problem affected primarily rice farming productivity: during the nineteenth century paddy land prices (as measured by the amount of rice) fell, while dry farm prices (as measured by the amount of dry farm products) rose. Peasants and landlords converted paddy lands into dry farms during the nineteenth century, and there occurred an exodus of workers out of agriculture into handicraft and commerce. Despite the proto-industrialization, late dynastic Korea remained less urbanized than Q'ing China, not to mention Tokugawa Japan. Seasonal fluctuations in rice prices in the main agricultural regions of Korea were far wider than those observed in Japan during the nineteenth century, implying a significantly higher interest rate, a lower level of capital per person, and therefore lower living standards for Korea. In the mid-nineteenth century paddy land productivity in Korea was about half of that in Japan.
Colonial Transition to Modern Economic Growth
Less than two decades after having been opened by Commodore Perry, Japan first made its ambitions about Korea known by forcing the country open to trade in 1876. Defeating Russia in the war of 1905, Japan virtually annexed Korea, which was made official five years later. What replaced the feeble and predatory bureaucracy of the ChosǑn dynasty was a developmental state. Drawing on the Meiji government's experience, the colonial state introduced a set of expensive policy measures to modernize Korea. One important project was to improve infrastructure: railway lines were extended, and roads and harbors and communication networks were improved, which rapidly integrated goods and factor markets both nationally and internationally. Another project was a vigorous health campaign: the colonial government improved public hygiene, introduced modern medicine, and built hospitals, significantly accelerating the mortality decline set in motion around 1890, apparently by the introduction of the smallpox vaccination. The mortality transition resulted in a population expanding 1.4% per year during the colonial period. The third project was to revamp education. As modern teaching institutions quickly replaced traditional schools teaching Chinese classics, primary school enrollment ration rose from 1 percent in 1910 to 47 percent in 1943. Finally, the cadastral survey (1910-1 modernized and legalized property rights to land, which boosted not only the efficiency in land use, but also tax revenue from landowners. These modernization efforts generated sizable public deficits, which the colonial government could finance partly by floating bonds in Japan and partly by unilateral transfers from the Japanese government.
The colonial government implemented industrial policy as well. The Rice Production Development Program (1920-1933), a policy response to the Rice Riots in Japan in 1918, was aimed at increasing rice supply within the Japanese empire. In colonial Korea, the program placed particular emphasis upon reversing the decay in water control. The colonial government provided subsidies for irrigation projects, and set up institutions to lower information, negotiation, and enforcement costs in building new waterways and reservoirs. Improved irrigation made it possible for peasants to grow high yielding rice seed varieties. Completion of a chemical fertilizer factory in 1927 increased the use of fertilizer, further boosting the yields from the new type of rice seeds. Rice prices fell rapidly in the late 1920s and early 1930s in the wake of the world agricultural depression, leading to the suspension of the program in 1933.
Despite the Rice Program, the structure of the colonial economy has been shifting away from agriculture towards manufacturing ever since the beginning of the colonial rule at a consistent pace. From 1911-40 the share of manufacturing in GDP increased from 6 percent to 28 percent, and the share of agriculture fell from 76 percent to 41 percent. Major causes of the structural change included diffusion of modern manufacturing technology, the world agricultural depression shifting the terms of trade in favor of manufacturing, and Japan's early recovery from the Great Depression generating an investment boom in the colony. Also Korea's cheap labor and natural resources and the introduction of controls on output and investment in Japan to mitigate the impact of the Depression helped attract direct investment in the colony. Finally, subjugating party politicians and pushing Japan into the Second World War with the invasion of China in 1937, the Japanese military began to develop northern parts of Korea peninsula as an industrial base producing munitions.
The institutional modernization, technological diffusion, and the inflow of Japanese capital put an end to the Malthusian degeneration and pushed Korea onto the path of modern economic growth. Both rents and wages stopped falling and started to rise from the early twentieth century. As the population explosion made labor increasingly abundant vis-a-vis land, rents increased more rapidly than wages, suggesting that income distribution became less equal during the colonial period. Per capita output rose faster than one percent per year from 1911-38.
Per capita grain consumption declined during the colonial period, providing grounds for traditional criticism of the Japanese colonialism exploiting Korea. However, per capita real consumption increased, due to rising non-grain and non-good consumption, and Koreans were also getting better education and living longer. In the late 1920s, life expectancy at birth was 37 years, an estimate several years longer than in China and almost ten years shorter than in Japan. Life expectancy increased to 43 years at the end of the colonial period. Male mean stature was slightly higher than 160 centimeters at the end of the 1920s, a number not significantly different from the Chinese or Japanese height, and appeared to become shorter during the latter half of the colonial period.
http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/cha.korea
Interesting read, that economic history of Korea. Written by a Korean no less who seems to have an objective view of history. I am impressed.
The Economic History of Korea
Myung Soo Cha, Yeungnam University
Three Periods
Sounds like he thinks Japanese economic policy which was based on their own experience had a lot to do with the moderization of Korea. 1% primary school enrollment in 1910 up to 47% in 1943? 1.4% population growth a year? Of course this hurts Korea's pride to have to admit that Japan in large part was responsible for helping modernize Korea. This doesn't make me a "Japofile" or Korean hater to see this. I merely stand on the side of objectivity and reason. |
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